12v battery model

[dtww]

Hi

Appreciate anyone with suggestions -

Short part - I am looking for replacing the 12v Battery in my 1.5 Yaris hybrid, 2013. It's a start-stop. Information about batteries online that claim to fit also says not for start-stop engine e.g. enduroline 055 12v 40A. What I know is Battery is smaller than usual and a sort of one-off. What I am looking for is a Battery fitter to come with the good and install it too. Question: what's the 12v battery model?

Long part - battery model and trickle charger

Yes, have read numerous posts, here, Toyota and elsewhere, about keeping the batteries charged and well maintained during lockdown and long periods of not running the car. Let's get that out of the way; plus, yes, yes, not that easy / convenient to let the car run (in Ready mode) for 30-60 minutes even once a week.

In 2021, I had two call-out for recovery to charge the battery. Both occasions, they checked the 12V and assessed it as healthy. But I now do wonder what "healthy" means, on the spot, versus usage over a few days and weeks.

Why i said about it being "healthy" is that recent months, most times when i started the engine, it would not start the first time. By that I mean the dashboard lights would come on, including the radio and cabin light, but "Ready" won't come on. I press the brake, and usually I hear a noise (1 in 3 presses). Excuse the non-scientific description here. After a few trials, usually the car will eventually get to the Ready mode and start. For the next few journeys in the same day or even the next day, it will start the first time.

Last Friday, the car will not get to the Ready mode, having done something like 20-30 times of starting. The previous weekend, I have taken it for a journey of about 20 minutes, and then same duration for return journey. I then did that again the next day, same journey.

I checked thoroughly, no cabin light on, door all closed and locked.

12v battery being "healthy" is what I doubt.

The car is parked on a public road. For me to work on the external of the car for too long could well attract unwanted attention.

What to do next? I can call the recovery to charge the battery. But at some point I should look into (a) replacing the battery and (b) getting a trickle charger for the more-than-usual once-in-a-blue-moon. Yes, I have read messages that say hybrid battery should, can, and have lasted much longer than this (45k miles). 

The wider thought is this -

(1) get recovery to charge up the battery

(2) get recovery charge battery, then sell the car soon (pass the problem on, if ever there was one)

(3) get mobile battery fitter do (a) above, and (b) I get the charger. 

Option (2) is plausible: not too emotionally attached to this (or any previous) car, and the part exchange £ is ok.

Option (3) if anyone has suggestion for a trickle charger, I appreciate it. It's got to be one that charges itself up in the house, then taken to the car to connect to the 12v connectors for the battery. Not those that plug to the mains at home with the car on the drive.

(4) get recovery charge battery, then go to Toyota to replace battery. I wonder what do I gain in doing this though, compared to (3).

 

I am happy for some "education" 😁but a different priority for the moment.

Thank you for reading, and any suggestion. 

[Catlover]

Where is the 12v Battery situated in your car?

[dtww]

under back seat, driver side

[TonyHSD]

2 minutes ago, dtww said:

under back seat, driver side

In this case a ctek charger with extra leads that can be connected to the 12v Battery permanently is a good option. https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-MXS-5-0-Reconditions-Motorcycle/dp/B00FC42HAA/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3H3YX3G8A5UEQ&keywords=ctek%2B5%2Bbattery%2Bcharger&qid=1644257975&quartzVehicle=29-10519&replacementKeywords=ctek%2B5%2Bbattery&sprefix=Cyek%2B5%2B%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-5&th=1 

then you can charge the Battery periodically like once a week or two weeks. 👍
 

[Bernard Foy]

Your Battery is almost 9yrs old. Maybe it’s coming to the end of its useful life.

[Catlover]

Ok, because the Battery is within the occupant area for safety reasons, in case of accident and the Battery bursts open potentially spilling acid over occupants, the Battery is an AGM type. These are more expensive then the fluid acid type you find under the bonnet of a car. Probably around £150. If, as Bernard suggests, your battery is the original it has done well to last but needs changing. With lack of use you will have the same problem, new or old battery, it needs topping up in the cold winter time.

As you cannot get car close to house (for mains electricity) I would suggest you get a solar panel, not as big as you put on the house roof 😄, but the same principle. Cost around £30. Place it in the car pointing in the direction of the most sun/daylight. It will connect into a socket somewhere already under the steering column area. Unplug when using the car.    
Other option is a battery jumper. This is about the same size as a large mobile phone, maybe just a bit thicker, but it is all battery. It has crocodile clips that go across the battery to jump start it. Just needs about a minute to  transfer some energy then you can start the car. Approx cost £50-£70. You keep it charged up ready for an occasion.

[dtww]

Thanks for helpful replies; will ponder them. For the moment, it sounds like getting the charger is an option without getting a mobile fitter. Then take it to Toyota to replace Battery.

[Catlover]

54 minutes ago, dtww said:

Thanks for helpful replies; will ponder them. For the moment, it sounds like getting the charger is an option without getting a mobile fitter. Then take it to Toyota to replace battery.

Yes, whether you struggle with the existing 12v Battery or put a new one in you need a means to keep the 12v Battery charged up if you cannot drive the car regularly. Your Toyota dealer may stock the solar panels, of maybe Halfords or the likes of eBay.

[Cyker]

I tend find most quick Battery diagnostics to be worthless, esp. on older batteries. The only way to know if a Battery is healthy is to monitor it while discharging it with a representative load.

I've had this with laptop batteries, where they present as being fine, and seem to work okay, but if you discharge them past say 40% with a fairly normal load they just suddenly cut out, showing that at least one of the cells in the pack has lost capacity vs the rest.

 

[Red_Corolla]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I tend find most quick battery diagnostics to be worthless, esp. on older batteries. The only way to know if a battery is healthy is to monitor it while discharging it with a representative load.

I've had this with laptop batteries, where they present as being fine, and seem to work okay, but if you discharge them past say 40% with a fairly normal load they just suddenly cut out, showing that at least one of the cells in the pack has lost capacity vs the rest.

 

Like you say, quick and accurate are mutually exclusive and therein lies the problem. My own DIY quick test method, which is no good for hybrid but I still use it for the wife's car and bike etc., is to measure the absolute minimum Battery voltage at the point when the starter motor becomes energised. I use a scope but you can get a rough idea if you have a very good multimeter with min-max capture. I look for the Battery to never drop below 9v at any instant. I would say 9.5v with the multimeter method, because the absolute peak is hard for it to capture - you're looking at the time between the solenoid closing the circuit and the motor beginning to turn.

In response to the OP, I would ask if it's the original 8-9 year old Battery or not? If it's original then it's done fairly well IMO - no need to overthink, just replace with a quality new battery and carry on as your were. AGM is best but probably not essential, and 'stop-start' does not apply to hybrids, because hybrid doesn't have a 12v starter or depend on the 12v battery to restart the engine after each stop.

[dtww]

This? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Lithium-Ion-Motorcycle-Emergency-Flashlight/dp/B09DSRX4KP

[dtww]

Solar panel kit - https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-solar-Maintainer-Cigarette-Alligator-Motorcycle/dp/B07WY3ZMBH does this work on the Yaris? plugging in to the cigarette lighter instead of the Battery???

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

In response to the OP, I would ask if it's the original 8-9 year old battery or not? If it's original then it's done fairly well IMO - no need to overthink, just replace with a quality new battery and carry on as your were. AGM is best but probably not essential, and 'stop-start' does not apply to hybrids, because hybrid doesn't have a 12v starter or depend on the 12v battery to restart the engine after each stop.

Stuart, This Yaris 12v Battery is within the passenger area ie under rear seat, therefore it is recommended an AGM Battery is fitted as the Battery acid is not fluid, it is absorbed in the glass mat. In this case nothing to do with stop-start, everything to do with occupancy safety.      
It’s easy to miss detail sometimes I know.

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, dtww said:

Solar panel kit - https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-solar-Maintainer-Cigarette-Alligator-Motorcycle/dp/B07WY3ZMBH does this work on the Yaris? plugging in to the cigarette lighter instead of the battery???

On the Amazon advert, if you scroll down to the bottom there are some questions/answers. One ? was asking does this charger work through the 12v cigarette socket when the engine is off.  

Answer:

Hi, you will need to connect the solar panel directly to the Battery with the supplied clips if your cigarette lighter is not live with the ignition turned off. Hope this helps. 
By Steve W on 13 December 2021 

 

You need a charger that connects via the OEBD socket that is under the steering wheel column, or just to the right of it. To see it you going to have to get on your knees and sort of look upwards under the dash. Once you find it you shouldn’t have that problem again.  The AA charger at £40 is OEBD connection.

Or you get an auto electrician to wire in a 12v lighter socket which slice when engine off.

 

Do remember if the 12v Battery is dead flat this may not bring it back to life, that’s what some comments are saying. Once the Battery has some life it should bring it up to full….unless the battery is shot….and at 9 year old yours may be shot ie useless. It’s done well for a 9 year old battery.

[RickyC]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

Stuart, This Yaris 12v battery is within the passenger area ie under rear seat, therefore it is recommended an AGM battery is fitted as the battery acid is not fluid, it is absorbed in the glass mat. In this case nothing to do with stop-start, everything to do with occupancy safety.      
It’s easy to miss detail sometimes I know.

Moreover AGM an Lead Acid batteries have a different way to be charged and a different resistance.  

An Hybrid Toyota doesn't us a normal alternator + voltage regulator circuit like standerd cars but a DC/DC converter designed for an AGM Battery.  If you change the Battery technolgy ( secuitity issues apart ) you risk to damage the DC/DC converter that is a part  ( probably not indipendently replaceable ) of the inverter unit.

[Red_Corolla]

5 hours ago, Catlover said:

Stuart, This Yaris 12v battery is within the passenger area ie under rear seat, therefore it is recommended an AGM battery is fitted as the battery acid is not fluid, it is absorbed in the glass mat. In this case nothing to do with stop-start, everything to do with occupancy safety.      
It’s easy to miss detail sometimes I know.

No worries, I stand corrected. Mine is not AGM but it's in the boot, so technically not a passenger area , I suppose, even though there's no bulkhead in-between.

[Catlover]

That’s interesting Stuart. The wife’s Auris hybrid, once mine, the 12v Battery is in the boot, as will TonyHSD’scans they are AGM from new.. interesting because the Auris is, as you probably know, the forerunner of the Corolla hybrids.

[Red_Corolla]

3 minutes ago, Catlover said:

That’s interesting Stuart. The wife’s Auris hybrid, once mine, the 12v battery is in the boot, as will TonyHSD’scans they are AGM from new.. interesting because the Auris is, as you probably know, the forerunner of the Corolla hybrids.

I found it very difficult to find any definitive info about the supplier of the OE Battery or exactly what it is, but the fact that the model number ends in 'MF,' would strongly imply that it's a standard maintenance free 12v Battery. Cost cutting measures, I guess.

[Catlover]

Just put a new 12v AGM into the Auris, I forgot how heavy batteries are. 
I got a good deal from my friendly Toyota dealer I use.

[Bernard Foy]

I’ve been following this topic with interest. Loads of knowledge on the battery’s.

[TonyHSD]

48 minutes ago, Catlover said:

That’s interesting Stuart. The wife’s Auris hybrid, once mine, the 12v battery is in the boot, as will TonyHSD’scans they are AGM from new.. interesting because the Auris is, as you probably know, the forerunner of the Corolla hybrids.

There she is an original Toyota Auris hybrid 12v Battery, does look oem , right? I never changed myself and only needed to disconnect a couple of times for service purposes. 👍

[dtww]

Update. I got from Amazon a power bank, brand CDMGLC. 15000mAh, capable up to 6L petrol engine. Way above what my car's spec but always think long term.

Didn't have chance to try till this morning. Yes it works!!!!!!! Started the engine!!!!!!!!

The cable clamps are rather short so took a bit of fiddling to connect. First time I got it to green solid light I wasn't quick enough to turn on the engine. The smart clamp lights then indicated timeout protection.

Second time, I didn't clamp the black clamp fully to a metal thing and wondered why it didn't want to work. Corrected that, it indicated it can jump start, went to dashboard, pressed brake pedal, all lights then came on, pressed start and engine came on.

Had to remove the jump starter soon after as a safety precaution. Having sat here for more than 30 minutes, so far so good.

Will have more update. In the mean time thanks x 100.

[dtww]

Power bank https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B095T1K7CR

I also got this solar panel https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B084M5ZL5L 

[TonyHSD]

35 minutes ago, dtww said:

Power bank https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B095T1K7CR

I also got this solar panel https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B084M5ZL5L 

I will probably buy this solar charger too for when going on holidays 👌