Lithium-ion Batteries Fire Risk.

[Broadway One]

Hi all.....disturbing news of the vessel Felicity Ace at sea with a serious cargo fire.

Thankfully the crew were all safely evacuated.

The significance of this major incidence is that the cargo was 100's of high end Electric Vehicles (EV's)

Reports suggest that batteries caught fire requiring specialist equipment to extinguish the blaze. 

The abandoned ship was reported as burning from end to end; everything on fire 5 meters above the water.

Presumably the Porsche, Audi, & Bentley EV's all contain top quality batteries.

A ship's hold or an indoor car park; what's the difference ?

Apparently sprinkler systems are ineffective on Battery fires.

Sure that fire authorities & insurance companies are all over this.

There needs to be a detailed inquiry pronto into the circumstances leading to this incident.   

Barry Wright, Lancashire.  

[Catlover]

There is also a Greek ship on fire near Cafu, passenger ship with trucks and cars on board, fire thought to have started on the car deck!  Twelve missing, thought maybe truckdrivers choosing to sleep in their truck as the ships cabins were full.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Not the first time a vehicle transporter ship carrying Volkswagen Group vehicles has caught fire. Back in 2019 the Grande America with 2,000 VW Group vehicles caught fire and sank.

Although lithium ion batteries have caught fire on the ship, its hasn't been determined these were the cause of the fire. It is already known that once lithium ion batteries catch fire, the fire is difficult to extinguish, and there is the possibility of re-ignition - this has been known for some time.

 

[forkingabout]

We have lithium ion batteries available in the forklift product range & we currently have 8 PPT on site equipped with lithium ion batteries. 

The batteries have to be shut down for transport by pressing a button on top of the Battery to put it to sleep ( there's a Battery management control unit inside the Battery case ) 

The battery also automatically puts itself to sleep if the truck isn't switched on for 24 hours - press the button for a few seconds & the battery wakes back up. 

Now the question is, do EV lithium ion batteries installed in vehicles being transported have to be isolated so there not left live? 

[Broadway One]

1 hour ago, forkingabout said:

Now the question is, do EV lithium ion batteries installed in vehicles being transported have to be isolated so there not left live? 

Hi all.....thanks; that's a very good point which also crossed my mind.

As intimated in my post, the cargo consisted of high end EV's, inferring top quality batteries with sophisticated protection systems, maybe some were on charge (live batteries)

Would a cargo of Tesla's have suffered the same fate ? 

We really do need to see what a detailed inquiry reveals. 

Which brings me back to enclosed car parks.

Hypothetically; A 50 vehicle car park with 20 EV's on charge (live batteries)

Range of models budget to high end, containing basic to comprehensive Battery packs.

Do these large garages with active charging in process pose an additional fire risk ?

One for the policy makers I guess.

Barry Wright, Lancashire. 

   

     

[flash22]

It's a very different scenario between land and sea - the ship may not be fully equipped to cope, lithium fires are hard to control and cells will combust if heated no matter if they are active or not, sure they should have their loops/ isolators pulled after loading on board, but it won't happen as it takes time and training

The ship is 17 years old so may not be up to modern standard

https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/FELICITY-ACE-IMO-9293911-MMSI-371427000

"The cargo includes 1,100 Porsches and 189 Bentleys, spokespeople for the car brands told Reuters. Audi, another Volkswagen brand, confirmed that some of its vehicles were also on the ship but did not reveal how many."

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/casualties/salvage-tug-races-to-save-mol-s-fire-ravaged-car-carrier-loaded-with-porsches/2-1-1171075

 

regarding banks of chargers, these have multiple fail safes and usually have remote isolation

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, forkingabout said:

We have lithium ion batteries available in the forklift product range & we currently have 8 PPT on site equipped with lithium ion batteries. 

The batteries have to be shut down for transport by pressing a button on top of the battery to put it to sleep ( there's a battery management control unit inside the battery case ) 

The battery also automatically puts itself to sleep if the truck isn't switched on for 24 hours - press the button for a few seconds & the battery wakes back up. 

Now the question is, do EV lithium ion batteries installed in vehicles being transported have to be isolated so there not left live? 

AFAIK, the packs are not (Or at least should not be!) 'live' when the car is off, as the traction Battery contactors should be open.

Also, the main fuse is supposed to be pulled during transport, which effectively cuts the Battery in half (It becomes e.g. 2x200v packs instead of 1x400v pack), but I don't know how many of them do this as, if they need to move the cars under their own power, this would add a lot of time to pull and replace the fuse each time, plus trying to find ones that go missing etc., and as time is money some companies may be tempted to skip such steps...

 

If they caught the fire quickly, and can pull water from the ocean, ships might be okay as they need to just flood the fire with water continuously - Not to put out the fire, but to pull the heat away so it doesn't get a chance to build up and trigger a chain reaction with other cells.

At the moment we basically have no way to extinguish large battery-pack fires as they are self-starting once cell damage has occurred. The 3 main techniques I'm aware of right now are: Continuously hose it down with water to keep it cold, dump it in a vat of water, or drop a heat-proof blanket over it and let it burn itself out.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

dump it in a vat of water

Probably the best thing to do with a ship of this size in order to do the above is to sink it.

[Cyker]

That would sort out the fire, but the ecological damage from doing that doesn't bear thinking about!!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Was said tongue in cheek.

Whatever happens there are going to be ecological/pollution issues with something of this size.

Also seems to be just a possibility that electric vehicle batteries are included - https://eu.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/02/20/cargo-ship-fire-luxury-cars-felicity-ace-destination-rhode-island/6860627001/

[Cyker]

I'll be honest, it's hard to tell with you sometimes frosty!  

[Catlover]

To be fair, it’s sometimes very hard to tell if anyone is saying things “tongue in cheek”. If a smilie or two was added that would make it easier to tell.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Personally I don't use emojis

[Cyker]

In my mind Frosty is like the jack Dee of the forum - Utterly deadpan! 

I tend to overuse smileys, being from that generation of internet user  

[flash22]

Salt water on an electrical fire may have its own issues, It is a UK forum, sarcasm is a gibbon being a moderator you have to sit on the fence a lot - do it for long enough, and you become numb, and those splinters get annoying

[Catlover]

Personally I think this forum, a busy one, is well moderated and that has a lot to do with Mike and how he handle things.

[Cyker]

Hear hear! Esp. since he's one of the few mods still regularly on here - When I joined there were a lot more (I do miss Em and co!), but him and Dev are the only ones I still see regularly so kudos and thanks to you Frosty for tirelessly keeping the place tidy and free of ad-bots and other undesirables and providing support! 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Keeps me out of mischief .....

[TonyHSD]

The ship has sunk into the Atlantic, was it an accident or simply an order to sunk the ship and no clue what exactly caused the fire and the true can’t be unveiled. 😉https://apple.news/A7xtiX5MpSMSspMznIy2dqw

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Felicity Ace sank on Tuesday morning -

https://www.thedrive.com/news/44510/supercar-carrying-cargo-ship-felicity-ace-sinks-following-massive-fire