First timer help please.

[DogDayz]

Hi all,

New here and new to the Corolla GR Sport as well. I haven't had an auto before and I'd like to get the most from it.

I have taken delivery of my Corolla last week and wanted to get some support from other users on how the gearbox works. I have read through the manual but cars have never really been my thing. I have the 2.0L GR Sport with paddle shift. I read in the manual that I can change the 'Shift Range' in D and S modes. What are shift ranges? I thought the paddles just simply changed gear. The manual talks about D1 to D6 and S1 to S6.

The manual also mentions the level of engine braking force can be selected. But I don't understand this either.

Really hope someone can explain this better than the manual does.

 

TIA

[Southern Mike]

Others will be able to answer this far more comprehensively than me, but the Corolla has a CVT (Continuous Variable Transmission) “gear box”. 
 
It’s not a traditional gearbox with gears that gives you a specific ratio. Effectively a CVT has unlimited ratios meaning it’s never in a particular gear that you’re more familiar with. It simply increases engine output through a clever pulley system and steel cable. Two pulleys adjust in diameter which changes the ratio and effective engine output (as far as I know - I’m no expert here and this is just my basic understanding). 

There’s pros and cons to CVT systems. One of the common one is the engine “whines” when the accelerator is floored and doesn’t produce the engine roar you’ll know as the revs increase in a single gear. Like in a conventional gear box. This doesn’t bother me and I never found it an issue in a previous Lexus I had. But each to their own. 

The “gears” displayed in the car are probably preset ratios that’s plugged into the computer. But there might be a safety system in place that allows the CVT to change gearing ratio beyond a certain point so you don’t trash it. Essentially the gears displayed are fictional as you’re not actually in a gear like you would be in a manual transmission or automatic transmission with gears. But it allows us the be familiar with something when we want to drive it like a conventional car even if under the bonnet it’s not working like a conventional car. 

S and D just mean “Sport” & “Drive” IIRC. The Lexus had a similar thing. Sport mode is just a bit more responsive. 

I think the braking force adjusts the amount of regenerative braking the hybrid system will generate for the Battery. The more the braking force, the quicker the car will brake and the more it’ll charge the Battery in that deceleration. I think! 

I’m sure others will be able to give you a much better explanation and possibly even correct anything I’ve written. 👍

[forkingabout]

Its a hybrid, basically just leave it in D to do its thing.

[Woofwoof]

It doesn’t have gears or a pulley system

it has an exact which if you enjoy engineering is using the 2 motors and the engine to achieve an infinite number of (ratios aka) gears

sport mode and the panels will make the car fee as if it has gears and you cycle through the gears

its intended for driving enjoyment and preferred styles, it will have a detrimental impact on your fuel economy

[AndrueC]

No pulleys required 😉

 

[camellia30]

The paddles are a complete waste of time. They don't do anything sensible. Even when you try and use them for engine braking it lasts a couple of second before the hybrid system overrides what you did.

[AndrueC]

7 minutes ago, camellia30 said:

The paddles are a complete waste of time. They don't do anything sensible. Even when you try and use them for engine braking it lasts a couple of second before the hybrid system overrides what you did.

I had them on my previous cars (Honda Jazz) and they only had two uses:

* If you were feeling silly you could pull the down shift paddle twice prior to overtaking then put the box back in full auto mode as you accelerated. This allowed you to perform the manoeuvre on the red line with the box gradually adjusting the ratio. This gave maximum power and made you smile 🙂

* When going downhill dropping into manual mode caused the box to hold the ratio and provided engine braking.

But in normal use I found that the paddles were often not under my fingers. You could also operate the Jazz as a conventional auto but the gear choices were reminiscent of a box from the last century with changes half way round roundabouts.

All in all I rarely used the paddles and don't miss them on my Corolla. With a CVT box the computer knows best. Just let it do its thing 🙂

[DogDayz]

Southern Mike Thank you for the detailed response. I had a little bit of what you said already but that makes more sense.

Continuing that line of thought then - if I was in S mode and floored the accelerator the car whines as it revs high, would pulling the plus paddle or upshifting with the 'gear stick' in effect put it in a higher gear? (changing the gear ratio)

camellia30 you say the paddles are a waste of time because the computer overrides it very shortly after using them. Is there no way to disable that?

AndrueC going downhill and putting the car in Manual mode to create more engine braking - how do I do this? My route to work involves a very long downhill section. Perhaps useful to charge the system?

[TonyHSD]

4 minutes ago, DogDayz said:

Southern Mike Thank you for the detailed response. I had a little bit of what you said already but that makes more sense.

 

Continuing that line of thought then - if I was in S mode and floored the accelerator the car whines as it revs high, would pulling the plus paddle or upshifting with the 'gear stick' in effect put it in a higher gear? (changing the gear ratio)

 

camellia30 you say the paddles are a waste of time because the computer overrides it very shortly after using them. Is there no way to disable that?

 

AndrueC going downhill and putting the car in Manual mode to create more engine braking - how do I do this? My route to work involves a very long downhill section. Perhaps useful to charge the system?

Hi, 

you may find that just using the brakes when going downhill generates as much energy or even more as using the complicated downshifting. More you step on the brakes more energy you save, don’t worry to keep your brake pedal depress for long time as the actual brakes might not even work until you press it further or sharper. Just drive in D and enjoy your hybrid. 👍

[camellia30]

Paddle gear changes why ? https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/194908-paddle-gear-changes-why/

[Red_Corolla]

I've got the paddles on mine but I don't touch them, they're a gimmick.

It's a CVT transmission but the gear ratio is varied by adjusting the engine & motor speeds relative to one another rather than using belts or pulleys. It does have gears, but they are constant mesh, i.e. no real gearchanges whatsoever. Extremely simple (at least, mechanically) and robust compared to a more traditional CVT.

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, DogDayz said:

AndrueC going downhill and putting the car in Manual mode to create more engine braking - how do I do this? My route to work involves a very long downhill section. Perhaps useful to charge the system?

I don't know how it works on the Corolla. On the Jazz you just pressed a button on the steering wheel that toggled between CVT and 7-speed mode.

In 7-speed mode you could use the paddles or just let the car choose (sometimes poorly). In later models the car would switch back into CVT mode when you next stopped or established a steady speed.

In all cases Honda had programmed the box to recognise a request for engine braking so while going down hill the car would stay in whichever of the seven 'gears' it had selected when the button was pressed.

With a hybrid that's just not something you want or need to do. With a conventional car you're converting kinetic energy into heat inside the engine or the brake discs to !Removed! speed. A hybrid can recover the some of the energy and use it to charge the Battery. It will do this by turning the electric motor into a generator whether by emulating engine braking or emulating disc braking. Both options are fine so just use the brake pedal if you want to slow. If you display the eco gauge on the dashboard watch the green line and it will change to blue as you brake. As long as the blue line doesn't fully occupy the 'CHG' section the car is not using the disc brakes and is instead charging the Battery.

But really the best answer to your questions has been given already. 'Don't worry about it'. I know it's a new toy for you but it's a well designed toy. There is no need to do anything other than put it in 'D' and if you feel the need use the brakes.

The pedals are there because Toyota thought it would help sell the 2.0. They are just a marketing gimmick and of little practical use. The 1.8 doesn't have them because the 1.8 is for sensible drivers that don't want to pretend they are driving a sports car 🙂

There are some techniques that can help minimise fuel consumption (making a frugal car even more frugal) but since you bought the 2.0 you probably won't want to know what they are 😄

[Obsidian Estate]

I have a gr 2.0 estate, I've used the paddles once.

I just put it in D and leave it.

[Cyker]

I do wish they'd be a bit braver and not try and dumb the cars down with stuff like this. At least make the paddles control something useful like regen levels or something instead of unnecessary fakery.

It's like that ridiculous patent to simulate a manual system in an EV someone posted a while back - Just... why??

This weird fetish with emulating an old sytem for no actual good reason is the one weird blindspot Toyota seem to have.

Like, the shifter/mode selector in HSDs - I would much prefer the 'puck' HSD shifter than the giant PRND lever, but apparently they were worried it would confuse customers (Despite nobody having trouble with the puck!) so they put in this giant lever to simulate a normal automatic.

I mean, they say they got rid of the handbrake for the worse-in-every-way EPB to save space, but then replaced the nice compact puck with that giant shift lever? It doesn't even do anything to warrant its size! It's just a glorified switch - All it does is tell the computer which way to send the electrons! In a regular automatic it has to be big as it is an actual lever that moves other mechanical things, but here it doesn't do any of that. (Well, mayyybe the parking pawl for P, but that doesn't require a giant lever! And could be electrically actuated like the EPB, as it is in older cars!)

Literally anything would have made more sense to me - They could have even taken the rotary dial from the GR4 - Left is reverse, middle is neutral, right is drive, right more is B, push in is Park. Or just copied any number of the compact shifters/buttons that current EV's use. Or just made it smaller - A whole extra cubby could go there!

The one in the Mk4 is even worse than a normal PRND lever as it doesn't have any steps, so I literally have to look at it when I'm shifting so I don't accidentally overshoot into P when aiming for reverse, or B when I'm aiming for D. I hate it! Well hate is maybe too strong, but of all the options they could have gone with it's pretty far down the rankings. I mean, this is the first car I've owned where I have to look at the shift lever when using it! (To be fair the others were manual; Can't beat a manual for feel-only feedback! But even my dad's CVT Verso has steps so you can't accidentally go into reverse or something without moving it sideways to get around the step!)

 

[Spo2]

7 hours ago, DogDayz said:

Hi all,

New here and new to the Corolla GR Sport as well. I haven't had an auto before and I'd like to get the most from it.

I have taken delivery of my Corolla last week and wanted to get some support from other users on how the gearbox works. I have read through the manual but cars have never really been my thing. I have the 2.0L GR Sport with paddle shift. I read in the manual that I can change the 'Shift Range' in D and S modes. What are shift ranges? I thought the paddles just simply changed gear. The manual talks about D1 to D6 and S1 to S6.

The manual also mentions the level of engine braking force can be selected. But I don't understand this either.

Really hope someone can explain this better than the manual does.

 

TIA

In the 2 litre engine, B mode is known as S mode. When you are in S mode, the default level of regeneration is 4. You can increase/decrease and that is what S1 to S6 are. In D mode, you don't need to do anything. In GR sport, it might be front-end to give a feel of sports car paddle shift. 

[DogDayz]

AndrueC A well designed new toy - thanks for bursting my bubble - maybe I should take back that like 🤣🤣🤣

 

I have only had the car a week. I moved from a diesel, manual VW T-Roc SE. I loved that car but the lease was ending and new option s on a VW were either very expensive or basic models - and a new touch slide head unit that was pants. So I kept looking around for what to get next. I wanted something that would offer both fun and fuel economy at the same time. Yes I could have got better fuel economy on the 1.8 but possibly a bit less fun. One week in and I am loving the car. It looks amazing as well. 

 

Really just trying to understand some of its features. 

 

Spo2 you said the default regeneration level is 4. Is that different then for the motorway? At the weekend I drove to Sheffield on the motorway. When I moved the stick to S the display showed 5. In my manual car driver head I thought I was in 5th gear so moved the plus paddle to 6. Seems this makes little difference after reading all the replies.

 

While on the motorway I used the Radar Cruise Control. My T-Roc had the same thing. You set your speed and sit back, if a car gets in front o you in range the car slows, when the other car is gone the car accelerates again. But, what I did notice was that on the drive to Sheffield on cruise control the Battery was never used, the fuel disappeared faster than 10 pints of lager in front of Gazza. On the way home though I didn't use the cruise control once and noticed the Battery would kick in frequently. I used a tiny amount of fuel compared to the out journey.

[AndrueC]

@DogDayz ah but it's a fun toy 😄

But seriously it is a really good car and exploring the options is always worthwhile. It doesn't have to be 'let the computer do the all the work'. If you want to get the very best fuel consumption then you have to understand the mechanics and at least direct the car to do what you want even if the car deals with the finer details.

I would imagine there are also ways to get the best performance out of the 2.0 but I can't comment on those of course.

[Spo2]

3 hours ago, DogDayz said:

AndrueC A well designed new toy - thanks for bursting my bubble - maybe I should take back that like 🤣🤣🤣

 

I have only had the car a week. I moved from a diesel, manual VW T-Roc SE. I loved that car but the lease was ending and new option s on a VW were either very expensive or basic models - and a new touch slide head unit that was pants. So I kept looking around for what to get next. I wanted something that would offer both fun and fuel economy at the same time. Yes I could have got better fuel economy on the 1.8 but possibly a bit less fun. One week in and I am loving the car. It looks amazing as well. 

 

Really just trying to understand some of its features. 

 

Spo2 you said the default regeneration level is 4. Is that different then for the motorway? At the weekend I drove to Sheffield on the motorway. When I moved the stick to S the display showed 5. In my manual car driver head I thought I was in 5th gear so moved the plus paddle to 6. Seems this makes little difference after reading all the replies.

 

While on the motorway I used the Radar Cruise Control. My T-Roc had the same thing. You set your speed and sit back, if a car gets in front o you in range the car slows, when the other car is gone the car accelerates again. But, what I did notice was that on the drive to Sheffield on cruise control the battery was never used, the fuel disappeared faster than 10 pints of lager in front of Gazza. On the way home though I didn't use the cruise control once and noticed the battery would kick in frequently. I used a tiny amount of fuel compared to the out journey.

Check in your manual what is the default level for your car. Mine is 4 for a CHR and might be different for yours. Also if you made to S5, and if you go back to S mode, it might be going back to your last setting as default.

Fuel consumption with cruise control is poor. Think there is a video on you tube which shows this for a 1.8 litre CHR. Also, I think, when the car is coasting (when you take off accelerator) that counts as as EV mode. I used to drive Golf 1.9TDI, and would always beat cruise control for fuel efficiency by using pulse and glide (essentially using momentum)- once got 75 mpg from Oxf to Lon.

[TonyHSD]

That’s right , momentum and pulse and glide does not exist in cruise control and the car instead of using these two she unknowingly killing them and this obviously affects the efficiency. CC does have practical uses though  and it’s helpful sometimes therefore good to have it. 👍 

[AndrueC]

I wouldn't say that CC 'kills' consumption. You will do better to manually control the accelerator but I think CC does a pretty good job and the advantages on a long journey far outweigh what I feel would be a minor fuel penalty. It's better than previous cars I've owned in that it doesn't seem to suffer from over or under shoot on hills. My old Jazz used to keep powering up the hill then suddenly lift off  near the top having gone a couple of mph over the set speed. Sometimes the speed would drop too low and the car would choose to accelerate just as the road levelled off 😞. Never known my Corolla do that.

[Cyker]

I find the CC is okay at 55-60mph, but the faster you make it go the worse it gets vs driving manually. I can still maintain 70+mpg at 70mph when I'm driving but the CC gets closer to 65-ish.

As others have said, it's because it just holds the car at a constant speed and is unable to do pulse and glide tricks - Every driver will be constantly accelerating and decelerating with the ebb and flow of the traffic which gives the drivetrain opportunities to switch between ICE and MG2, but ironically the CC just holds a constant speed so the car has far less opportunities to switch to MG2.

[AndrueC]

I've noticed when driving at a steady 60 mph the HSD is often 'fiddling' with the power distribution. At times it seems like it's charging the Battery purely so that it can then use the Battery to help power the car.

Overrun the ICE to charge the Battery then underrun the ICE and have the electric motor help out. Alternate between the two. That seems unlikely to be a more efficient way to move the car but perhaps it is.

[Cyker]

Yes, I find the same behaviour in mine - The theory is, the car is 'overrunning' the engine as that's where it's most efficient.

It's like, the engine can run at 38% efficiency at 60mph and use 1L of fuel, or 41% efficiency at 60mph and still use 1L of fuel.

In a normal car, there is nowhere for the extra energy of the 41% to go so they are stuck at the lower efficiency, but in the hybrids that extra energy can be dumped into the traction Battery, then you can shut the ICE off and run off that 'free' excess energy for a while before the cycle repeats.

 

This is one of the biggest misconceptions about hybrids - For the longest time, people (me included) thought their efficiency came from brake regen recovering energy that would be lost.

It turns out the amount of energy you get from brake regen is very small - The real source of the high efficiency is being able to run the engine at its maximum efficiency load and RPM *all the time* - There is only a very small zone where any ICE will be at its maximum efficiency - Has to be a very specific RPM and very specific load.

It is almost impossible to be in that zone all the time in a normal car, as your load and RPM are dictated by speed limits, traffic flow, inclines. Diesels have a wider window for that zone than petrols (That big flat max torque peak between 1800-3000rpm in a D4D for instance), which is why they tend to do better than petrols, but the ICE in the hybrid is completely isolated from all of that and can just do its own thing.

I reckon this is why it is obsessed with running about 2000rpm in the Mk4 - Even at 20mph, which seems daft, but is actually genius, as you're still hitting that 41% but using maybe 20% to push the car and the other 21% can go into the Battery. Then you shut the engine off, and drive on that Battery power.

In a normal petrol, you are forced to run at 20% efficiency at that 20mph as there is nowhere else for the energy to go, so both will end up using the same amount of fuel for the same distance, but the hybrid can capture a load of free/wasted energy that it can then use to propel the car without using any more fuel!

That's my theory anyway...

 

[TonyHSD]

That’s right Cyker, brake regeneration only adds on energy to the Battery but the engine is the one who keeps it topped up while you are driving. Another misconception is the range in ev, there is no range in Toyota hybrids, the hybrid system works all the time and the Battery is small, it’s a like a huge capacitor in the boot or under the seat that gets charged and discharged fast a million times and helps the internal combustion engine been super efficient, and when at low speeds, or doing a manoeuvres, slow traffic etc the car can only use that energy stored into the Battery and not burning unnecessary fuel, cleaner and more economical than standard ice cars👌

[Cyker]

That's a point too - I wonder if Toyota have looked at using super capacitors? They are much more flexible in terms of packaging, and are much much lighter. I imagine shrinking the traction Battery slightly and then stuffing super capacitors everywhere (Maybe in the gigantic pillars??  ). Could save a lot of weight, which would mean better mpg!

You could also turn the regen braking up even more, as caps can take a lot more current than batts, and with them acting as a buffer the traction Battery could have an even longer life!

It's funny as super cap news has gone incredibly quiet - I had high hopes they'd be able to get them up to battery-levels of capacity as they have so many advantages - They don't wear out from repeated fast charging/discharging, are much lighter, are much less affected by temperature, can handle much higher current, don't self-start fires when damaged...