Auto Hold

[Hayzee]

I've looked through the manual regarding Auto Hold but cannot see whether it's possible to make the Auto Hold switch remain on through car restarts. I keep forgetting to switch it on each time I start and it's really annoying. Anyone know? Thanks.

[ernieb]

No it’s not possible it needs to be activated after each start. I trigger mine after I’ve git the car into the READY mode as part of the starting procedure.

[Hayzee]

7 minutes ago, ernieb said:

No it’s not possible it needs to be activated after each start. I trigger mine after I’ve git the car into the READY mode as part of the starting procedure.

I have to admit it seems daft to not offer auto hold as a 'stay on' option, that's what I was used to in my previous Volvo...oh well....thanks Ernie

[Cyker]

The reason is it deactivates as soon as you take your seat-belt off or put it in Park, so there's no way to keep it on. Reasoning is to stop you using the brake hold and getting out the car, as it's not designed to be on for long periods of time (And will actually release itself if left engaged for too long!!  But really if the car's going to be stopped for long you're supposed to use the EPB/Park mode anyway...)

I'm in two minds about the button, as I do like that I can turn it on and off explicitly, but in my mate's Auris the system is activated by holding and pushing down the brake pedal firmly, which saves a step and means I don't have to turn it on and off when e.g. getting into a tight parking space, where the Brake Hold just gets in the way.

 

[Hayzee]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:23 PM, Cyker said:

The reason is it deactivates as soon as you take your seat-belt off or put it in Park, so there's no way to keep it on. 

 

 

My Volvo did the same....but it remembered the status of the switch at next restart, so it would still be on.

[Iain_M]

We had a 2011 Audi Q3 which had auto hold on it and my current Tiguan has the same. Once selected it is always available and I find it most useful and in all the years we have had this facility I have never tried or even thought about getting out of the car when it is selected to Drive. That said, I will just have to learn to select it when I get in the new car I guess, at least the function is available. There is nothing more annoying than an automatic car creeping cos you took your foot off the brake.

[Bernard Foy]

I don’t know why Toyota didn’t keep the older original hill hold as when you braked the car to a stop you gave the brake pedal an extra press and released it and then then it held the car until you were ready to go and it released when you used the accelerator to move off.

[philip42h]

57 minutes ago, Iain_M said:

... There is nothing more annoying than an automatic car creeping cos you took your foot off the brake.

No - the creep feature of an automatic is extremely useful and a positive boon in car control during low speed manoeuvres.

The Brake Hold button is just a wate of time and space - but, at least, I can just ignore it and it doesn't interfere with my enjoyment or use of the car. (If I don't want to keep my foot on the brake I put the car into Park!)

I guess it's all down to what you are used to / expect ... 😉

49 minutes ago, Bernard Foy said:

I don’t know why Toyota didn’t keep the older original hill hold as when you braked the car to a stop you gave the brake pedal an extra press and released it and then then it held the car until you were ready to go and it released when you used the accelerator to move off.

Hill Start Assist is still there - it's just automatic now - and, exactly as before, it gives you only a couple of seconds to sort yourself out before releasing the brakes anyway ... 😉

[Cyker]

Ha, I'm the opposite - Love the brake hold but hate the off-throttle creep!   The creep just annoys me because it means I can't go really really slowly (e.g. when crawling in traffic) without holding down the brake, and it just feels like I'm wasting energy at that point. I have started experimenting with flicking between N and D in such situations but it doesn't feel as safe as e.g. dipping the clutch in a manual...

I do wonder if the brake hold was changed to an explicit button activation because people kept triggering the old system by mistake (because 99% of drivers just seem to hold down the foot brake ALL THE TIME when stationary ) and then got confused and scared when it engaged?

Most drivers don't read the manual and probably wouldn't even know what brake hold is  

[Stopeter44]

I tried the brake hold once and found it weird, compared with the usual automatic trans creep. Each to his own. 

[Cyker]

Yeah, I think it must be an auto vs manual driver thing - Coming from a lifetime of manual cars, I really don't like how it will just move on its own! But I find most people that are used to autoboxes prefer things this way.

But this has always been a bugbear of mine and why I've never really liked automatics - The low-speed control of a manual is far more precise as you are feeding power in to make the car move, and not subtracting it like you have to in an auto.

 

[ColinB]

I used the brake hold all the time, except when manoeuvring in tight spaces where I don't like the way the car jerks when it moves off. 

[Rav Rob]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

No - the creep feature of an automatic is extremely useful and a positive boon in car control during low speed manoeuvres.

The Brake Hold button is just a wate of time and space - but, at least, I can just ignore it and it doesn't interfere with my enjoyment or use of the car. (If I don't want to keep my foot on the brake I put the car into Park!)

I guess it's all down to what you are used to / expect ... 😉

Hill Start Assist is still there - it's just automatic now - and, exactly as before, it gives you only a couple of seconds to sort yourself out before releasing the brakes anyway ... 😉

100% agree, the brake pedal is big and only needs the light weight of a foot resting on it to hold the car from creeping, no effort at all.

[Hayzee]

16 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

100% agree, the brake pedal is big and only needs the light weight of a foot resting on it to hold the car from creeping, no effort at all.

But if auto hold maintained previous setting it would satisfy both needs

[Lawnmowerman]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Ha, I'm the opposite - Love the brake hold but hate the off-throttle creep!   The creep just annoys me because it means I can't go really really slowly (e.g. when crawling in traffic) without holding down the brake, and it just feels like I'm wasting energy at that point. I have started experimenting with flicking between N and D in such situations but it doesn't feel as safe as e.g. dipping the clutch in a manual...

I do wonder if the brake hold was changed to an explicit button activation because people kept triggering the old system by mistake (because 99% of drivers just seem to hold down the foot brake ALL THE TIME when stationary ) and then got confused and scared when it engaged?

Most drivers don't read the manual and probably wouldn't even know what brake hold is  

My previous RAV4 (4.4 Hybrid) needed the vehicle to be in drive to charge the Battery - putting into neutral with engine running wouldn't charge it. So against my wishes I kept it in drive with footbrake on - and as you say like most (but with a valid reason).

[Rav Rob]

1 hour ago, Hayzee said:

But if auto hold maintained previous setting it would satisfy both needs

yup, I could go with that.

Some functions can be annoying if they don't stick, when I had an Outlander PHEV and hung around on its boards, there was a guy so annoyed at a function that wouldn't stick, he designed a tiny circuit with a programmed microcontroller that fitted on the back of the switch and reset the function as it was before on each start up. I wish you could buy such a device, my wife's car (MG), she hates the stop-start function and has to disable each time she gets in, I would love it to remember the off state.

[ernieb]

Each to their own but I find I'm using the brake Hold function more and more maybe as much to do with the constant road works where I live.  For over 2 yers they have been updating the layout, removing barriers, widening paths, reducing the road width it's been a nightmare.

[Stopeter44]

15 hours ago, Cyker said:

The low-speed control of a manual is far more precise as you are feeding power in to make the car move, and not subtracting it like you have to in an auto.

That's arguable. Depends on how dextrous your feet are, and how good you are with a handbrake !

[Cyker]

Weeellll, IMHO the precision and control is not arguable - Manuals just offer more control, end-of, but you are right that in practice it does depend a lot more on the skill of the driver than an automatic would!!

For instance, a scenario where e.g. someone is trying to get onto a busy roundabout in, say, an Aygo - It is very very difficult in the MMT Aygo as you can't suddenly accelerate it hard from a standstill - There is a delay where the automatic system tries to figure out what to do which is often enough to miss a smaller gap, so you need a much bigger gap to do it safely. (When I tried it, it almost launched me into a car because the response was so delayed  )

With a manual one, it totally depends on the driver - A rubbish driver will probably stall it, but a good driver can respond instantly to a gap and jump into it safely, as they can preload the engine and clutch, ready to go in an instant. It's one reason why I never liked automatics as none of them are capable of that instant launch except maybe if they have some sort of obnoxious launch control - The only 'automatics' I've ever driven that are capable of such instant response are HSDs and EVs.

[ernieb]

The PHEV is also pretty good….

[Nick72]

Prefer to switch it on or off manually now. 

[Roger_N]

Will the hold not automatically release when you press the accelerator? 

[ernieb]

Yes, that’s exactly how I use mine.  Also if you are in a queue that takes awhile the MID display will flash up a warning ‘do you want auto hold if so press the foot brake’ or something like that. 
You do need to give the brake a firm press just feathering the brake will not engage the auto hold so I find I can usually use either option of the as situation demands.

[Stopeter44]

15 hours ago, Cyker said:

For instance, a scenario where e.g. someone is trying to get onto a busy roundabout in, say, an Aygo - It is very very difficult in the MMT Aygo as you can't suddenly accelerate it hard from a standstill - There is a delay where the automatic system tries to figure out what to do which is often enough to miss a smaller gap, so you need a much bigger gap to do it safely. (When I tried it, it almost launched me into a car because the response was so delayed  )

MMT boxes are not automatic gearboxes, they are mechanised manual transmissions. The worst of both worlds. A full automatic would be off like a shot and most drivers would be faster off the line and through the gears with an automatic, IMO.

[Cyker]

Well that's just semantics - If you can't get a manual licence in it, its an automatic. What would you consider a full automatic? By your definition, double-clutch transmissions are also automated manuals and wouldn't count, so that leaves what, CVT and torque converters? Both are also slow off the line.

But I stand by what I said - I've driven all 4 of those (single and DCT, cvt and torque conv) automatic and none of them can do a full-throttle launch with the same instant immediacy as a skillfully driven manual. If they did, they wouldn't need launch control! And launch control can't be held ready for long periods, whereas I could wait ready at a roundabout as long as I need. It's one of the reasons I've always avoided autoboxes in the past.

The only one I haven't tried is the weird Toyota CVT with the 'real' first gear - Supposedly that has a good launch, but I think it is still connected via a locking torque converter so not sure how it would work in real life.

The only 'automatics' I have tried which had that instant response are EVs and HSDs, but you can argue they're not really automatics since they don't technically have gearboxes with multiple gear ratios and are engaged permanently!