Price rises - E10 vs E5

[johalareewi]

Having noticed an mpg drop using E10 fuel (vs the old E5) and the rising price of fuel, the price difference between E10 and super unleaded E5 is less significant than it used to be.

Would switching to E5 super unleaded be more economical for a Prius than using E10?

 

[TonyHSD]

Efficiency it’s almost the same, maybe 1-3 mpg gain but the performance and drivability are on another level. With E5 99 the car is much more responsive, the engine is a lot quieter and the overall experience makes it worth every penny. I usually do Tesco momentum 99 E5 and the car drives like new. Recently switched to e10 because my Tesco is under construction and the car feels horrible, I had to use additive every fill up to make it drivable again, otherwise engine sounds like there are loose metal parts inside camshafts and power wise is dead. ✌️

[Spo2]

16 minutes ago, johalareewi said:

Having noticed an mpg drop using E10 fuel (vs the old E5) and the rising price of fuel, the price difference between E10 and super unleaded E5 is less significant than it used to be.

Would switching to E5 super unleaded be more economical for a Prius than using E10?

 

You are the best person to answer this as you have data, so doing the maths will help. Let's know what you conclude! If economy is your goal, i would do what taxi drivers are currently using. 

[flash22]

You get a cleaner burn with 98/99 Ron, in theory a 2.0 will be more economic, a lot of 99 Ron fuels are still Ethanol free 4-6p a litre is worth it, the hybrids do like the non corn juice but run fine on E5 premium, i do notice when E10 is in the tank

[Spo2]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Efficiency it’s almost the same, maybe 1-3 mpg gain but the performance and drivability are on another level. With E5 99 the car is much more responsive, the engine is a lot quieter and the overall experience makes it worth every penny. I usually do Tesco momentum 99 E5 and the car drives like new. Recently switched to e10 because my Tesco is under construction and the car feels horrible, I had to use additive every fill up to make it drivable again, otherwise engine sounds like there are loose metal parts inside camshafts and power wise is dead. ✌️

So Tony, i take you use 99 Ron petrol. Do most hybrid drivers use 99ron fuel? 

[Cyker]

The difference is much less obvious in the newer ones, probably because they were designed to run on E10. I honestly can't tell the difference between running on V-Power or Sainsburys Special  

[TonyHSD]

36 minutes ago, Spo2 said:

So Tony, i take you use 99 Ron petrol. Do most hybrid drivers use 99ron fuel? 

Yes since last September but because of lack of supply now I am on e10 95 from bp and add redex petrol additives so runs okay. These petrol prices will kill me now, I do use 100ltr per week 🔥🤐🥲

[flash22]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Yes since last September but because of lack of supply now I am on e10 95 from bp and add redex petrol additives so runs okay. These petrol prices will kill me now, I do use 100ltr per week 🔥🤐🥲

Oof does your wallet have wings and a halo, if it hits £2 a litre petrol theft will be the next big thing, as long as no one pushes the big red button meanwhile

[Spo2]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Yes since last September but because of lack of supply now I am on e10 95 from bp and add redex petrol additives so runs okay. These petrol prices will kill me now, I do use 100ltr per week 🔥🤐🥲

You might want to buy EV then! 

[TonyHSD]

7 minutes ago, Spo2 said:

You might want to buy EV then! 

😂 I don’t think so 🔋🔌🚫 bev are only suitable for short town driving👌

[Catlover]

2 hours ago, Spo2 said:

So Tony, i take you use 99 Ron petrol. Do most hybrid drivers use 99ron fuel? 

In my Prius and the wife’s Auris hybrid I still use E5 95. No E10 has been through the system in either car.

[CPN]

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

In my Prius and the wife’s Auris hybrid I still use E5 95. No E10 has been through the system in either car.

Ditto in mine also. I'm not prepared to take the risk...

[Eddiefh]

I’ve been using this product since December and I’d be hard pushed to notice any difference in range or mpg , early December put full winter tyres on and same time came across this product mpg went from 38.8 to 38.7 and hasn’t bugged other than a long run to the deep in hull went back up to 38.8 . 
I’m convinced the tyres had a worse affect than the fuel 

[Hornet3D]

Well the Aygo had a small amount of E10 added to the tank recently as that was all I could get but the aim would be to run it on E5 if at all possible which is the same as the CRV that went before it.  I am not sure about fuel while it was a demonstrator but I do know the dealership sometimes filled up in the local Sainsburys (they really should have deleted the dash cam history before the sold it).  

One of the reasons for changing our car was that it stands on the drive way a lot as it is not used on a daily basis so my concern with E10 is the way it reacts with water if left for long periods.  This is concern is even before any differences in the driving characteristics of E5 over E10. 

[Stopeter44]

2 hours ago, Hornet3D said:

One of the reasons for changing our car was that it stands on the drive way a lot as it is not used on a daily basis so my concern with E10 is the way it reacts with water if left for long periods.

What's a long period ? 2 minutes ? 2 days or 2 months ? E10 is my normal, and has been for the last 6 years, I've left the car up to a month and have never had a problem. I believe the problems come at beyond 2 months of immobility.

[YarisHybrid2016]

Interesting. Not just my imagination then. Mine doesn't sound good on E10 at all. Sounds...like metal to metal in the cylinders. It also doesn't start up well at all when cold on a cold day (+3 deg. C).

I ran the tank right down and filled up with E5 premium (99 RON).

Fuel economy definitely drops with E10, too. I ran the numbers and the price difference is made up for in the fuel economy. For me I was seeing about a 15% drop in efficiency.

[Hornet3D]

1 hour ago, Stopeter44 said:

What's a long period ? 2 minutes ? 2 days or 2 months ? E10 is my normal, and has been for the last 6 years, I've left the car up to a month and have never had a problem. I believe the problems come at beyond 2 months of immobility.

The problem is that ethanol absorbs water as the ethanol molecules are  smaller than water they tend to sit between the water molecules.  To all intense and purposes ethanal absorbs water so if you increase the ethanol your increase the water absorption.  It is a gradual process so there is not set number of days, weeks or months when this becomes an issue but the RAC were advising people about this problem during lock down so maybe that is some sort of guide.

UK E10 Petrol Facts | Top Gear

[Stopeter44]

@Hornet3D with respect, I don't contest what you, and others, say about water absorption in Ethanol, and by extension E10, I'm just saying the risk to the car is overblown by the UK E10 user. I have used E10 in my petrol cars since 2015 and never had any problem linked to the use of E10, including during lockdown where I'd fill up once a month, and even before that, since in the first three years of ownership I did c. 8k km per year only. If you car is post-2000 then virtually all petrol engines can safely use E10.

[Hornet3D]

42 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

@Hornet3D with respect, I don't contest what you, and others, say about water absorption in Ethanol, and by extension E10, I'm just saying the risk to the car is overblown by the UK E10 user. I have used E10 in my petrol cars since 2015 and never had any problem linked to the use of E10, including during lockdown where I'd fill up once a month, and even before that, since in the first three years of ownership I did c. 8k km per year only. If you car is post-2000 then virtually all petrol engines can safely use E10.

You might be surprised but I am in full agreement with you and I understand that the potential for damage is way overblown.  The reason I raised the subject is because I also believe that the consumer should be know all the ins and outs of any product so they can make and informed decision on what they buy be that fuel, food, tools or any other product for sale.

Your experience is a valuable guide and adds a great deal to the subject and again assists in informing people how they should spend their hard earned income.

The only other issue I have is that details like this seem to seep out rather than it being up front and I do not prescribe to the oft quoted mantra of not telling the public in case it causes a panic.  The powers that be did not cover themselves with glory with diesel as they promoted them for many years as being cleaner than petrol while forgetting to mention about the particulates they generated.  Those that followed advice are now being taxed to death by local government as they do not want such vehicles in their towns and cities.  So not good look to then come along with another 'this is good for the environment, trust us' campaign.

[Spo2]

Out of curiosity, are the WLTP tests done with E10 or E5 ?

[Stopeter44]

43 minutes ago, Spo2 said:

Out of curiosity, are the WLTP tests done with E10 or E5 ?

Good question. Google doesn't seem to know.

[johalareewi]

Interesting replies.

My Plugin gen2 has the E10 and E5 symbols on the fuel flap and it runs fine on E10 but the mpg meter is noticably lower than when it was E5 unleaded.  E10/E5 price differences vary daily at the moment but nice to know that super unleaded E5 will be ok to use if the price is right.

[johalareewi]

14 hours ago, Spo2 said:

You might want to buy EV then! 

The EV charging infrastructure isn't up to the job for serious EV use.  That's why i still have a PHEV.

 

[Red_Corolla]

I find the difference in price and economy about the same as a percentage. Seems logical to stick with E5 if it isn't costing any more per mile.

[Mojo1010]

I don't know if I'm imagining things, but I feel the engine of my car sounds a bit louder during idling when the engine kicks in using E10. As well mpg seem to suffered too than previously on E5. 

Will use E5 98/99 Ron when I go on my Wales trip in may, want more response from the Yaris MK3.