Price rises - E10 vs E5

[TonyHSD]

There are two types of no good for your car when using E10

First one is when your car is on the list for cars that are exempt from using E10 and that this fuel can cause a parts failure and engine malfunction and the second one is all other cars that are absolutely fine but in comparison to E5 or E0 the engine does not perform at its best potential, return slightly lower mpg and the driving dynamics are compromised. If you research about this E10 fuel there are many videos on YouTube and you can see indeed this ethanol petrol burns cleaner but also it is a dry fuel which definitely causes more wear to the engine parts. These metallic tiny vibrations like sounds and noises we all noticed when running on E10 comes from extra friction of metal parts, fuel injectors and valves particularly plus high pressure fuel pumps on GDI engines. Higher friction means higher temperature and higher wear. I use redex new formula for hybrids now with each E10 fill up and the engine sounds better, not as quiet as when on E5 99 but better than when not using an additive. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Redex-Petrol-System-Cleaner-250ml/dp/B001QLX0UO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=393EO7V5VJS12&keywords=redex+petrol&qid=1647008282&sprefix=Redex%2Caps%2C175&sr=8-1

I am not worried about the E10 will cause any other issues along the fuel system in my 2010 car but only for the reasons above, noise, friction, performance. 👌

[Hornet3D]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

Good question. Google doesn't seem to know.

 

3 hours ago, Spo2 said:

Out of curiosity, are the WLTP tests done with E10 or E5 ?

When I looked while the WLTP does reference E10 and E5 and allows the use either it does not seem to differentiate between the tests. 

[TonyHSD]

40 minutes ago, Hornet3D said:

 

When I looked while the WLTP does reference E10 and E5 and allows the use either it does not seem to differentiate between the tests. 

Efficiency is almost the same, even sometimes on E10 is higher, sometimes it’s lower. Perhaps depends on some factors like where and how the car been used , city, motorways, etc. 

[Stopeter44]

I read some studies that show that overall E10 is about 4% less efficient, for want of a better word, than E5. There are other factors other than the calorific value that come into play, I don't recall what they are exactly. So if the price difference is < 4% then you'll pay a marginally lower price per km or mile, but that marginal is probably of there order of 0.01 pence/euro. If, as @TonyHSD maintains, the engine runs smoother, then I'm for the quiet(er) life 😉. 

[Hornet3D]

If friction is one of the possible issues with E10 then the degree to which this happens may depend on the additives in the fuel as well so E10 from one brand might be different to another brand, I say might, because I have nothing to suggest this is the case.  In the real world this will still be a issue here in the UK as you can never be sure which fuel you are putting in the car, well unless the distribution has changed in recent years.  What I mean by that is that most companies have inter agreements, for example I live in Wiltshire so if there is a delivery to a local Shell garage first thing in the morning and the tanker started it's journey around Bristol the chances are it has been filled with Shell at Avonmouth.  If however that first delivery goes to Reading and my garage is next for delivery the chances are it will have filled at the closest site which would likely be Texaco.

 

 

[Cyker]

It might depend on the car, but theoretically E10 has 3% less 'energy' then E0 (1.5% less than E5), so it's not too bad. However, different cars might react to it differently and e.g. go for more conservative (And less efficient) timing/advance if their map isn't flexible enough to deal with it.

Supposedly, highly efficient small engined cars should notice the biggest drop, so the i10/Aygo/Up/Picantos of the world.

Petrol is already a fairly harsh solvent so I don't think it will be any less lubricating with the ethanol in it - In fact, because ethanol is an excellent anti-knock agent (And doesn't give you brain damage like lead! Hooray!), it may free up some space for more lubricity agents, cleaning agents or water dispersants (More likely) depending on what additive packages the retailer has asked for.

 

[Trewithy]

Went to Tesco this morning to fill with E5.  1.69 per litre which was 8p more than E10.  The fuel gauge was exactly on the half mark.  I put in 18.66 litres to the first cut off.  I was expecting to put more in as the tank capacity is 43 litres.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The low fuel light should illuminate when there is approx 6.4.litres remaining, and this reserve may not be shown by the fuel gauge. (Ie . [using approximate figures] 6.4 (reserve) + 18.8 (your fill) + 17.8 = 43)

[TonyHSD]

Fuel prices are crazy high . This is at South Mimms service station on M25 J23. 😢

[Cyker]

Same here

Wasn't the price of crude coming down?! Fuel prices have steadily been going up, and rising faster if anything! Petrol went up by 1p last week and just went up 2p here!  

 

[johalareewi]

Results are in after a month of using E5 vs E10.

I used hybrid assistant to analyse similar long journeys which i make regularly so there is both E10 and E5 data.  With the E5 super unleaded the mpg is about 12% better than E10.

So for me, if E5 is 10% more expensive or less than E10 it is actually cheaper than E10.

 

[TonyHSD]

Many places petrol is now over £2 a litre, not a good times for ice car drivers.  ☹️⛽️

[Cyker]

Yeah it's mad... I'm paying nearly double what I paid to fill my Mk1 D4D and that's for just over half the litres of fuel!!  

Still, could be worse - I was behind some crazy guy driving an Aventador through Enfield Town on the way home (Giving it the revs to show off to the school kids  ); I don't want to know what his fuel costs are!!

I never appreciated how low those things are - I think it just comes up to the top of my bonnet  And the tyres! Nearly the same width as two of mine!   But that guy must have some seriously brassy cajones or very very good spacial awareness to get something that wide all that way through those tight roads  

But damn that V12 sounds nice...

[Rhymes with Paris]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Many places petrol is now over £2 a litre, not a good times for ice car drivers.  ☹️⛽️

I was thinking about depreciation being the biggest cost of motoring, but of course now with the shortages of new cars that belief is now redundant.

My situation is further complicated by not knowing how much longer I will be able or allowed to drive,age etc.

Still, I reckon I would have to spend around £20k to buy a recent hybrid (correct me if I am way out) so even if it were a £15k difference for example, that still buys a lot of petrol even at the £10/gallon it's headed for.

Btw, can I save money by just putting £20 worth in at a time,then the price stays the same ?😂

[Cyker]

36 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Still, I reckon I would have to spend around £20k to buy a recent hybrid (correct me if I am way out) so even if it were a £15k difference for example, that still buys a lot of petrol even at the £10/gallon it's headed for.

I think the Mk4 starts at £21k now  but you can probably get one for £18-19 via e.g. carwow - If you have good haggling skills the dealers still seem to have a lot of wiggle room, and as my uncle found buying on 0%APR finance seems to unlock up-to £1000 discount  

But yeah that still buys a lot of fuel. TBH buying a new car never makes economical sense vs buying a £500 s**tbox and just running it into the ground.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Btw, can I save money by just putting £20 worth in at a time,then the price stays the same ?😂

The funny thing is that works, as the less fuel that £20 buys you the more your mpg goes up as you will be carrying less weight  

Although at this rate it won't be long before £20 would get you just enough fuel to drive out of the petrol station and then back in again...  

[TonyHSD]

I meant ice cars all together with hybrids. The evs will get hit next, the electricity prices are going also up to the sky and beyond 🥲 Things ain’t going well everywhere. 

[Cyker]

Must admit if I hadn't bought the Yaris I'd be seriously thinking of getting PV+heating solar panels...

[Big_D]

I need to fill up again, and I'm thinking about taking out a second mortgage to pay for the fuel 😁

[TonyHSD]

Not sure I can afford another hybrid or any car at all, thinking of an old Mercedes’ e250d or 190d and used veggie oil from my next door Indian take away. Fuel filter I can change myself 😂⛽️👍 

[Spo2]

4 hours ago, Cyker said:

TBH buying a new car never makes economical sense vs buying a £500 s**tbox and just running it into the ground

Bangernomics 

[Stopeter44]

9 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Not sure I can afford another hybrid or any car at all, thinking of an old Mercedes’ e250d or 190d and used veggie oil from my next door Indian take away. Fuel filter I can change myself 😂⛽️👍 

Don't now how it is in the UK, but that used veggie oil from the chippy, gets reused and some of it does end up as fuel for cars, restaurants sell that used oil.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Stopeter44
spelling mistake (wrongly auto corrected)

[Hybrid21]

Filled up yesterday at local Esso, £1.97/litre for E5 😮

[forkingabout]

My nearby Tesco - Momentum was 186.9 pence per litre when I filled up last night.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

Don't now how it is in the UK, but that used veggie oil from the chippy, gets reused and some of it does end up as fuel for cars, restaurants sell that used oil.

I know there are a few cottage-industry-type Biodiesel retailers that collect oil from local shops and turn it into Biodiesel. I suspect the 10% biodiesel in B10 also comes from similar sources.

McDonalds also boasts some of their artics run on pure biodiesel made from their used oil.

However there's currently no economically viable way to turn used oil into petrol so we won't benefit from that so much!

There was a time some years ago where the news reported people were buying old diesel volvos with mechanical pumps and dumping used engine and chip oil in them to run them  

 

[forkingabout]

12 minutes ago, Cyker said:

There was a time some years ago where the news reported people were buying old diesel volvos with mechanical pumps and dumping used engine and chip oil in them to run them  

 

Peugeot 405 & 306 with the XUD9 engine will run on vegetable oil but only the versions fitted with the Bosch fuel pump.

Don't try it on the Lucas fuel pump versions!