Re program/mapping on a Hybrid?

[Hybrid8]

Is it possible to re map the engine management software to make the vehicle run on Battery for longer than the current settings?

Currently the engine cuts in at around 15 mph would it possible to change it to 20mph?

[flash22]

No one does it as it's too complex, the hybrid system isn't designed to be used that way, if it's your first hybrid it's a totally different driving style, it's all about throttle control

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, Hybrid8 said:

Is it possible to re map the engine management software to make the vehicle run on battery for longer than the current settings?

Currently the engine cuts in at around 15 mph would it possible to change it to 20mph?

You probably will not be running on Battery for longer, going faster yes, but that in itself means Battery will run down quicker, so not longer.

My Prius will do about 27mph but a bigger car and bigger Battery then your Yaris.

[Cyker]

I must admit I'd love to be able to tweak the parameters - My main annoyance is the car will start charging the Battery when it drops to 3 blocks while stationary; If I could, I would change it so it fires up the ICE when you start to *move* at 3 blocks, but if you're stopped then keep it off down to 2 blocks (The ICE is *really* obnoxious in the Mk4 when it is stationary - When you're moving, even slowly, it's smooth and quiet, but for some reason when you're not moving it's much louder and rattles the whole car!)

Either that or move the target SoC to 5 blocks instead of 4, so it has more time to drain down to 3 blocks and hopefully avoid the nasty stationary charge rattling!

 

I think in the OP's case, I'm not sure it's possible at all as the MG2 isn't as powerful and the HSD gearing forces the ICE to spin up above a certain speed (I thought it was 30mph in the Mk3 but might be wrong!); One of the biggest improvements in the new gen hybrids is they beefed up MG2 and put a reduction gear in the HSD so it can run up to 80mph on MG2 before the ICE is forced to spin up - This limit is much lower on the previous hybrids, something like 40-50mph IIRC?

(MG2 doesn't actually have the oomph to push the car at 79mph unless you're going down a hill tho'  )

Even in the Mk4, I *can* get the car up to 40mph on MG2 alone, but only if I'm reeeeaaaalllly gentle with the throttle - If I even sneeze the ICE will kick in!

I've mostly reverted to my diesel-driving style, and briskly accelerate up to my desired speed with the ICE then back off and try and get it to switch to MG2 once I get there for a long fuel-free electric coast! (My eco score is consistently, 5/5 for coasting but 1-2/5 for accelerating and braking ) 

[preperationlaunch]

2 hours ago, Hybrid8 said:

Is it possible to re map the engine management software to make the vehicle run on battery for longer than the current settings?

Currently the engine cuts in at around 15 mph would it possible to change it to 20mph?

The car will run on Battery (green EV light lit) up until about 45mph. You'll notice it mostly when cruising in 30 zones, coasting downhill or pottering in slower traffic. Around town, my Yaris spends about 50% of its time in EV mode according to Hybrid Assistant. The newest ones are closer to 70-80% of time in EB mode, but they're using a much more modern Battery technology.

Forcing it into EV mode using the button allows it to draw slightly more current from the motors, and run the Battery down further before starting the engine, BUT, it will then use more fuel charging itself back up again. It's a false economy, and it's harsher on the battery. The EV mode button is really for quietly getting off the drive or out of underground car parks. It isn't to give you a Tesla.

The Toyota hybrids are designed around the concept of little and often energy exchange between the engine, wheels and battery. There's no sense in Toyota's eyes in lugging a big battery around when you've got the means to charge it with you. Especially when you'd need to spend more time charging it from the engine anyway.

There is a replacement battery available in the US that is using LiFePO4 rather than Ni-Mh and people claim to have seen a marked improvement in MPG because the car will use more of it, but, it's not a cheap endeavour. They're listed at over a thousand pounds in the US, and then you'd have to get it here. https://projectlithium.com/ In the US, these are cheaper than Toyota replacements, but, the genuine Toyota batteries are notably cheaper here.

[Cyker]

38 minutes ago, preperationlaunch said:

The Toyota hybrids are designed around the concept of little and often energy exchange between the engine, wheels and battery. There's no sense in Toyota's eyes in lugging a big battery around when you've got the means to charge it with you. Especially when you'd need to spend more time charging it from the engine anyway.

Spot on! I was a bit confused when I found out the Mk4 has a SMALLER Battery than the Mk3 (I think the Mk3 is 1.3kW NiMH, but the Mk4 only has a 0.7kW Li+!  ), but I can't argue with the results! It does seem to cycle more often than previous hybrids, and I guess that, the beefed up motors and the weight saving have all helped!

 

[flash22]

Battery tech has come a long way in the last 10-15 years - not sure what voltage the MK4 pack runs at, but the cells are lighter and more energy dense

[Cyker]

Yea, the blurb I have says it went from 144v in the Mk3 to 177v in the Mk4, so a bit of a jump but not huge. Pack is 10-15kg lighter and a lot smaller!

 

 

[CPN]

...also, the pack in the Mk4 can withstand a deeper quicker discharge that in the Mk3 and is also much faster to recover the charge into the bargain... (during normal driving)

[preperationlaunch]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yea, the blurb I have says it went from 144v in the Mk3 to 177v in the Mk4, so a bit of a jump but not huge. Pack is 10-15kg lighter and a lot smaller!

Based on Project Lithium, they claim max current in their Lithium replacements for Ni-Mh cars like the mk3 Yaris go from a peak current of 100A to ~260A, whilst weighing half as much.

I think that's a big factor in the higher speed EV mode, as you've now got the power available to sustain the higher speeds.

It's also quite easy to out brake the regen on a mk3 Yaris, the Battery can't keep up as much. I'd be interested to find out how many amps of regen a mk4 is spitting back into the Battery.

[Cyker]

The blurb says 50% more driving current, and double the input (i.e. charge or regen) current vs the Mk3, whatever that means. Doesn't give actual amp values.

I feel the limiting factor on the Mk3 might also be the inverter tho', not just the Battery. The power electronics unit is really beefy on the Mk4!

 

[preperationlaunch]

It gets wonderfully chicken and egg. You wouldn’t uprate the inverter until you can make use of it. 

For reference, max acceleration amps I’ve seen are around 110-120 on the mk3, with max regen being 90A with about 50 sustained regen being the most the cruise control can impose. 

Allegedly, a Prius C (the Yaris mk3 in a frock, or vice versa really) gets a boost of 5-10 US MPG with a lithium pack replacing the Ni-Mh one. 

[CPN]

3 hours ago, preperationlaunch said:

It's also quite easy to out brake the regen on a mk3 Yaris, the battery can't keep up as much. I'd be interested to find out how many amps of regen a mk4 is spitting back into the battery.

Sorry it is in Kw but, using Hybrid Assistant, I have seen 25Kw being fed back to the Battery during Regen braking... I never saw that kind of figure on my Mk3 Yaris...

Using good old Ohms Law, that means that 141 Amps was being fed to the Battery during that recharge period of regen braking (probably about 20 secs) and looking at how quickly the battery's SoC rose at the same time, I believe it to be true. (40% to 52% SoC)

Note that this is being spread across 48 cells of 3.7v each...

[Hybrid8]

It was a general question really.

The chance of Toyota selling me my next car is getting slim.

As both Jemca (Croydon) & Currie Motors (Kingston/A3) have done their best at really peeing me off (read that as ripped me off) recently.

1 more dealer to try and then its off to another car brand.

Which is a pity as I do like the Yaris Cross Over 4x4i a lot!

[Cyker]

Yeah, I feel you're almost better doing it through e.g. carwow, then at least you can get the discount and spec you want and minimize the dealings with the dealer - Out of the whole process, the dealer was the most unpleasant part of the whole experience for me. From what I've read here it does seem the dealers around London are consistently the worst rated for customer service, at least by word of mouth.

The Mk4 is so good it was worth that annoyance to me, but YMMV as they say!

 

[flash22]

Try beadles in Maidstone, leave the Jemca group well alone the parts guys are great, the rest of this outfit is majorly poor at best

Vauxhall is now Peugeot

Nissan is Renault

Dacia is Renault

Mini is PSA and BMW

Ford haven't got a clue

Suzuki is Chrysler/FIAT

 

From what im seeing toyota standards have dropped in the last few years especially in build and QC

[Cyker]

Ehhh wouldn't agree with the parts department either; The dealerships where they have a manned parts desk tend to be decent but where they don't you better bring a good book with you because you will be in for a wait. Overall dealer standards, at least down here, are definitely not at the level I'd hope for, but I think the cars are still pretty good.

The improvement in build quality from the Mk2 to the Mk4 is very noticeable - Stuff actually lines up and fits and the panel gaps aren't drive-a-bus-through like the Mk2  

The interior gets stick for 'cheap plastic' but it seems durable and hardwearing judging by how much abuse the dash stood up to when I was ripping it out to get to the lighter socket so can't complain.

 

[forkingabout]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

From what im seeing toyota standards have dropped in the last few years especially in build and QC

We noticed that with the newer models of electric counter balance forklifts.

The older ones built in France & especially Japan where bomb proof, the newer ones being put together in Italy - no comment. 

[Cyker]

Yeah, the QC of the french plant has gotten a lot better; They were really awful when they first opened...