BZ4X WLTP ranges annouced

[Devon Aygo]

Following final homologation testing,

Grade	FWD	AWD
Pure	317	N/A
Motion	312	285
Vision	277	259
Premiere Edition	N/A	257

With a range of 317 miles on our Pure FWD, our 71kW Battery can deliver 4.5 miles of range per kWH. In comparison, with a range of 320 miles from a 77kW Battery, the Volkswagen ID4  delivers 4.2 miles of range per kWH, and with a range of 328 miles from a 77.4kW Battery, the Kia EV6 also delivers 4.2 miles of range per kWH.

 

[Spo2]

Looks good but absolute range matters. However, think Renault Megane etech gives 4.87 miles per kw. 

[ernieb]

The AWD drive numbers don't look too bad as base numbers to work off but I believe the WLTP test are carried out at 23oC.  Let's see what real life numbers get reported once the car gets into real life environments, lower temperatures, some wind, hills and passengers.

The WLTP specs I seen are somewhat confusing on test temperatures as I've seen both 14/23oC quoted.  Mind you 14oC is not particularly low even for the UK. 

[philip42h]

Does anyone know why the WLTP ranges of the Motion and Vision grades are quite so different? I understand / am assuming that they are 'electromechanically' identical - the Vision just has more trim and toys. So I'd expect it to carry a bit more weight and loose a bit of range as a result but the difference is around 10% ... ?

[ernieb]

The only thing I noted when I looked at the spec's originally was that the top two grades had 20" wheels rather than 18"?

[duncerduncs]

Yeah, it's the 18' vs the 20' tyre.  Also, all models come with a heat pump so your Winter range won't reduce as much as the ID.4/Ioniq 5/EV6 etc.

[philip42h]

TBH I would have thought that the 20" rim would have had less sidewall than the 18" rim and thus lower rolling resistance hence better economy / range ... ?

Other additions seem to be ventilated seats and kick opening tailgate - but I wouldn't have expected either of those to account for the range reduction.

[Cyker]

The problem is they are wider (More air resistance) and also have much more inertia - Most of the mass of a rim is concentrated on the edge, not the centre, and the bigger the rim, the further that mass is from the centre, so the harder it is for the engine/motor to turn, which means more energy has to be used every time the car accelerates.

It's one of the reasons I was surprised F1 cars went with such big rims this season, as it will dampen their acceleration, like putting on a bigger flywheel!

 

[AndyRC]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:50 PM, Cyker said:

The problem is they are wider (More air resistance) and also have much more inertia - Most of the mass of a rim is concentrated on the edge, not the centre, and the bigger the rim, the further that mass is from the centre, so the harder it is for the engine/motor to turn, which means more energy has to be used every time the car accelerates.

It's one of the reasons I was surprised F1 cars went with such big rims this season, as it will dampen their acceleration, like putting on a bigger flywheel!

 

F1s move to 18inch was I believe driven by Pirelli who wanted to at least make the tyre sizes “look” more relevant to road going cars. Unfortunately these days 18 inch sounds pretty small with most manufacturers moving towards 19/20 inch as the smallest option , particularly on the SUV segment 🤷‍♂️

[AndyRC]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:33 PM, Devon Aygo said:

Following final homologation testing,

Grade	FWD	AWD
Pure	317	N/A
Motion	312	285
Vision	277	259
Premiere Edition	N/A	257

With a range of 317 miles on our Pure FWD, our 71kW battery can deliver 4.5 miles of range per kWH. In comparison, with a range of 320 miles from a 77kW battery, the Volkswagen ID4  delivers 4.2 miles of range per kWH, and with a range of 328 miles from a 77.4kW battery, the Kia EV6 also delivers 4.2 miles of range per kWH.

 

Looking forward to having a test drive in this and seeing how the “real world” performance pans out. I’m a couple of years off going BEV but this is looking one of the best so far. 

[Cyker]

I'm still waiting for something that isn't a giant hausfrauenpanzer, but annoyingly it seems all EVs are headed that direction. It's ironic, as London would be an optimal place for EVs as it's so traffic dense, but SUVs and 4x4s are the worst vehicle you could try to drive here! But out in the country where such giant vehicles would be okay, the lack of range and charging infrastructure really hampers them and requires meticulous planning for all but the shortest journeys.

My problem with wanting something the size of a Yaris is I worked out I'd need something like 100-120kWh of Battery to get my 300+ mile 70mph winter range, and with current Battery tech that's physically bigger than a Yaris, unless they decide to make a 2-seater coupe version  

 

[wass]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:20 PM, philip42h said:

Does anyone know why the WLTP ranges of the Motion and Vision grades are quite so different? I understand / am assuming that they are 'electromechanically' identical - the Vision just has more trim and toys. So I'd expect it to carry a bit more weight and loose a bit of range as a result but the difference is around 10% ... ?

As mentioned elsewhere, this disparity is mostly due to tyre size. Since todays buyers seem to value aethetics alongside economy, there is always a ballance to strive for. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about aethetics since most of the time I spend with a car is sitting inside it concentrating on driving it and not imagining what  I look like driving it. So, for me, I'd want the most narrow , high profile tyres available. Did anyone notice how narrow rally car tyres are when they go off road on the mud and gravel stages?I dont exploit modern tyres to the edge of their grip in dry weather  and I also know that better grip is nearly always available from the narrow tyres in foul weather so I always err on the side of economy.

[ernieb]

3 hours ago, wass said:

As mentioned elsewhere, this disparity is mostly due to tyre size. Since todays buyers seem to value aethetics alongside economy, there is always a ballance to strive for. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about aethetics since most of the time I spend with a car is sitting inside it concentrating on driving it and not imagining what  I look like driving it. So, for me, I'd want the most narrow , high profile tyres available. Did anyone notice how narrow rally car tyres are when they go off road on the mud and gravel stages?I dont exploit modern tyres to the edge of their grip in dry weather  and I also know that better grip is nearly always available from the narrow tyres in foul weather so I always err on the side of economy.

As well as ride quality, I much prefer smaller size wheels and a higher profiled tyre. My neighbour has a big BMW, looks great but the tyres seem no existent and he tells me he constantly has back ache.

[Yugguy1970]

Yep, rubber band tyres don't give comfort.

And they are not needed for rhe handling 95% of us require.

[Cyker]

Yeah, there just is no advantage of massive rims but a whole load of disadvantages. I'm also pretty sure my 15's have saved me from a looooot of punctures from potholes that would probably have cracked the rims of the 17s the car came with!

(That loud THUD! when you hit a pothole or something is so scary! But so far no damage!)

Even if I need to change a tyre, it's nearly half the cost of a tyre on the 17" rims and I suspect the reason I'm able to hit the 80mpgs is because of the 15"s having less aero drag and having much less rotational inertia.

 

[Nicolai]

The EV6 and ID4 do come with a heat pump - at least in Denmark. Sitting in a BZ4X at the dealer, pressing the AC button reduced the estimated range of the car by 60(!) miles. Didn't have a test drive due the "wheels recall". I'd like the AWD for the wet, rainy days but the range of the AWD isn't impressive at all...

[swoop5511]

The BZ4x also comes with heat pump as standard - at least the UK version. Also everyone needs to calm down re the AC / 60 mile reduction. The launch software does not came with route charge planning unfortunately, better a something that comes via future update. Not having any real world data I am reading this as a reference / worst case value that is applied regardless of environmental factors. AC use in Denmark in the Summer vs southern France surely will have a different impact on the Battery. This same method was applied to towing on the first MEB cars. The moment a trailer was connected the range was reduced by x regardless of weight and route. 

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

The BZ4x also comes with heat pump as standard - at least the UK version. Also everyone needs to calm down re the AC / 60 mile reduction. The launch software does not came with route charge planning unfortunately, better a something that comes via future update. Not having any real world data I am reading this as a reference / worst case value that is applied regardless of environmental factors. AC use in Denmark in the Summer vs southern France surely will have a different impact on the battery. This same method was applied to towing on the first MEB cars. The moment a trailer was connected the range was reduced by x regardless of weight and route. 

True. Also the range reduction will depend on outside air temperature, sunlight and interior temperature plus the ac temperature settings, the lower the ac is set the greater reduction in the range will be. 

[Nicolai]

4 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

The BZ4x also comes with heat pump as standard(...)

I know. I was referring to the post which indicated that a heat pump isn't standard on VW, Kia and Hyundai. Just pointing out that it is. At least in Denmark. So, saying that the Kia and VAG groups have high range figures which will drop enormously (more so than the BZ4X) in winter due to the lack of a heat pump is not quite correct.

[kingrikk]

It isn’t standard on any of those cars in the UK though.

ID.4 - Top Trim only

IONIC 5 - £995

EV6 - Not standard, but isn’t clear on their site

I’m new, but I think this is a UK focussed forum?

[Roy124]

Funnily enough the Sunday Telegraph has a story from the Consumers Association on real usage miles compared to the test.  Toyota is too late to the party, but before you rush out and buy a Volkswagen.

"Volkswagen’s ID 4 GTX (2021) managed 193 miles, compared with an official range of 300" 

[ernieb]

Roll on solid state batteries a quick 10 minute charge and your good to go.

I’ve looked at a few YouTube runs and it’s shameful just how poor the actual achieved range of EV’s are in general compared to the WLTP figures.

[bZ4X]

12 hours ago, Nicolai said:

I know. I was referring to the post which indicated that a heat pump isn't standard on VW, Kia and Hyundai. Just pointing out that it is. At least in Denmark. So, saying that the Kia and VAG groups have high range figures which will drop enormously (more so than the BZ4X) in winter due to the lack of a heat pump is not quite correct.

A research: test degree between - 4 to 10 degree Celsius without heat pump 250 km and with heat pump 330 km. Thus, the heat pump recovers 25%-33% of the Battery capacity. At the sametime draining Battery quickly and charging quick kills the life cycle of the Battery dramaticly. I would definitely go with heat pump for long term saving. 

[Cyker]

9 hours ago, ernieb said:

Roll on solid state batteries a quick 10 minute charge and your good to go.

I’ve looked at a few YouTube runs and it’s shameful just how poor the actual achieved range of EV’s are in general compared to the WLTP figures.

Don't get your hopes up - I'd wager when Solid-state batteries come to the market the charging speeds won't be significantly different!

But yeah, EV range is the new MPG  Just as the test people finally get a handle on unrealistic MPGs, so the figures are now at least in the ballpark of what you can get in real life rather than the total fiction of the NEDC, something new comes along to stump them!  

 

[ernieb]

43 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Don't get your hopes up - I'd wager when Solid-state batteries come to the market the charging speeds won't be significantly different!

But yeah, EV range is the new MPG  Just as the test people finally get a handle on unrealistic MPGs, so the figures are now at least in the ballpark of what you can get in real life rather than the total fiction of the NEDC, something new comes along to stump them!  

 

Not according to Toyota but I understand that there might be hype but there is plenty of interesting comments and YouTube videos that suggest it will charge quickly.

he’s one:

https://www.toyota.ie/world-of-toyota/articles-news-events/2021/solid-state-batteries.json