Brake Parts and Fitting Kit Question

[Cyker]

Yeah there seems to be a few schools of thought on the matter - Some think it's best to coat the pad backs with copper grease to stop them squealing and back face of the disc so it can't rust-seize onto the hub, and also grease up the rails so the pads slide more freely.

Others thing it's better to just clean everything and use no grease, except for the slide pins (Which are sealed with rubber covers, so only silicone grease should be used; oil-based greases will eat the rubber), as grease attracts dirt and will just gum everything up faster.

I personally grease the back of the disc as they are a right *beep* to get off if they're rusted to the hub, but don't use it on anything else, as the EBC pads I used always had shims on so never needed to use grease on them. Then just wire-brush the smeg out of everything that is a contact or sliding surface  (I'm no expert tho', only done it a couple times on my old Mk1's!).

Also wear a mask as brake dust is horrible stuff  

 

[TonyHSD]

16 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah there seems to be a few schools of thought on the matter - Some think it's best to coat the pad backs with copper grease to stop them squealing and back face of the disc so it can't rust-seize onto the hub, and also grease up the rails so the pads slide more freely.

Others thing it's better to just clean everything and use no grease, except for the slide pins (Which are sealed with rubber covers, so only silicone grease should be used; oil-based greases will eat the rubber), as grease attracts dirt and will just gum everything up faster.

I personally grease the back of the disc as they are a right *beep* to get off if they're rusted to the hub, but don't use it on anything else, as the EBC pads I used always had shims on so never needed to use grease on them. Then just wire-brush the smeg out of everything that is a contact or sliding surface  (I'm no expert tho', only done it a couple times on my old Mk1's!).

Also wear a mask as brake dust is horrible stuff  

 

I have done both ways with copper grease or special brake grease and without any grease and the results are unbelievable, grease on brakes is the biggest enemy, confirmed 👍.  Some cars like Vw/Audi dual pistons set ups doesn’t even have lube on the pins, instead they have specifically designed rubber seal that acts like a spring similar to the seals of the pistons on the callipers., any lubricating at those areas will prevent normal operation and will cause brake drag, heat and premature failure. On all cars brake discs should only be fitted  on clear metal surfaces of the hubs, rust properly cleaned and no anti seize at all, otherwise vibrations are only a matter of time and miles , they usually comes at around 1500-2000 miles after the change. If you worry about disc getting glued to the hubs best practice is to spray a bit of wd-40 and then wiped out and again dry fit everything. There are tons of videos on YouTube and as you mentioned always two sides but I had been from both sides of the game and I made my thoughts, I will never use any grease on pads, shims, callipers, hubs, discs. Only slider pins if recommended by the car repair manual. 👍

[TonyHSD]

59 minutes ago, SB1500 said:

I thought copper grease was a smart move on the correct areas? 

Well, I thought so in the past and I also used many times until I realised that this is exactly what has been causing me brake problems. Since I stopped using any grease my brakes works great and last longest between brake service, and the brake service is much easier and less messy. If you had applied already, you can leave it until vibrations comes up or if they don’t ( hopefully) until your next brake service and then just clean the pads and callipers and dry fit them back and only lube the slider pins. Biggest mistake and most common problems and the reason for vibrations is grease or rust between the discs and hubs.  👍

[Cyker]

Always good to hear real-world experiences!

[Guest]

This is all really interesting, ok, so I will avoid using it (unless - when I watch the Car Care Nut - if he does it, then I'll do what he says - given his almighty Toyota experience and all that!). Otherwise, I will go with what you guys say and see how it goes. 

Here are some close up photos of the Genuine Toyota Brake Discs and Pads. Ordered from Toyota's official eBay store so if any of you, with the D4D BMW engine Avensis 1.6 are reading this in the future, here is what to expect and the part numbers (as per their recommendations from my reg). 

I was hoping that Toyota would supply the the little metal wire like 'v' shaped parts that push the pads out as they wear - I saw this on the Car Care Nut brake video, and also on a brand new Ford sitting at a dealer the other day when I checked it out. Seems like one of those factory 'best practice' things even though it may be a nice to have over a need to have.   Unless.. with the particular Bosch braking system on my Avensis, this simply isn't an available part / option. My dealer says it isn't an option. Toyota said they have a part they can recommend, I believe it comes up at £70 or so, but again, no picture for me to confirm what comes with it.  

I just want it done 'right', you know?  Best practices, best (reasonable) parts - I know you could pay thousands for the cutting edge "best" parts but for all intents and purposes, I reckon the Toyota parts are the best between quality and value.  Let's face it, £362 for 'genuine' parts for a front and back brake job including discs, that's not too bad. My uncles Mazda 6 tourer, Mazda quoted over £600 for those parts! It uses an Akebono brake system. We replaced the pads on it on Tuesday, one of the calliper bolts (the bottom one with the rubber ring) was totally seized in, what an unholy job that was to get out, heat gun and a hammer came to the rescue.  It made me think, that I will 100% take mine out and re-grease them to prevent such an issue if I can down the line.  Is spray silicone grease as good? I can only find the spray kind at ECP.

 

Shopping list now is: 

- Rubber gloves

- Dust mask

- 3x tins of brake cleaner

I was going to get some 'blue Loctite' for the bolts, but maybe this is unnecessary? also can't find any on ECP (same day pickup is handy today if my other discs come in the post as I'm hoping they do) 

 

So excited to fit these tonight if Toyota posts them out!!! 

[TonyHSD]

27 minutes ago, SB1500 said:

This is all really interesting, ok, so I will avoid using it (unless - when I watch the Car Care Nut - if he does it, then I'll do what he says - given his almighty Toyota experience and all that!). Otherwise, I will go with what you guys say and see how it goes. 

Here are some close up photos of the Genuine Toyota Brake Discs and Pads. Ordered from Toyota's official eBay store so if any of you, with the D4D BMW engine Avensis 1.6 are reading this in the future, here is what to expect and the part numbers (as per their recommendations from my reg). 

I was hoping that Toyota would supply the the little metal wire like 'v' shaped parts that push the pads out as they wear - I saw this on the Car Care Nut brake video, and also on a brand new Ford sitting at a dealer the other day when I checked it out. Seems like one of those factory 'best practice' things even though it may be a nice to have over a need to have.   Unless.. with the particular Bosch braking system on my Avensis, this simply isn't an available part / option. My dealer says it isn't an option. Toyota said they have a part they can recommend, I believe it comes up at £70 or so, but again, no picture for me to confirm what comes with it.  

I just want it done 'right', you know?  Best practices, best (reasonable) parts - I know you could pay thousands for the cutting edge "best" parts but for all intents and purposes, I reckon the Toyota parts are the best between quality and value.  Let's face it, £362 for 'genuine' parts for a front and back brake job including discs, that's not too bad. My uncles Mazda 6 tourer, Mazda quoted over £600 for those parts! It uses an Akebono brake system. We replaced the pads on it on Tuesday, one of the calliper bolts (the bottom one with the rubber ring) was totally seized in, what an unholy job that was to get out, heat gun and a hammer came to the rescue.  It made me think, that I will 100% take mine out and re-grease them to prevent such an issue if I can down the line.  Is spray silicone grease as good? I can only find the spray kind at ECP.

 

Shopping list now is: 

- Rubber gloves

- Dust mask

- 3x tins of brake cleaner

I was going to get some 'blue Loctite' for the bolts, but maybe this is unnecessary? also can't find any on ECP (same day pickup is handy today if my other discs come in the post as I'm hoping they do) 

 

So excited to fit these tonight if Toyota posts them out!!! 

Good job 👏 

When you are watching the car care nut don’t take everything exactly as he says, he is a Toyota technician indeed but this doesn’t necessarily means he knows absolutely everything and he is correct all the time. Sometimes he adds his own opinions to what he says and he as we are all not always 100% correct. For example he states 5k miles oil services, that’s absolutely not necessary even for USA area. 10k miles service it’s just fine and todays oils can last even 15k miles easily,  Toyota will not recommend to their car owners extended oil intervals just to get their engines wear out and replace, this is not a Volkswagen. If you are taking out your original brake parts now which most likely you will, just don’t rush , take your time and carefully dismantle part by part and watch for traces of any grease and what grease is, but again it might not be the original parts but replaced previously and someone used lubricant where he should not. Anyway here the best quality brake cleaner: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holts-1831697-Brake-Cleaner/dp/B0025KOQYY/ref=sr_1_2?crid=E3DL5VOEQFDR&keywords=holts+brake+cleaner&qid=1648114182&sprefix=Holts%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-2

Silicone grease for the pins : 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-Silicone-Grease/dp/B07JP4RV7J/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1THFVHWQR22DQ&keywords=silicone+grease&qid=1648114234&sprefix=silicon+grease+%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-10
 

wire brushes for cleaning hubs, callipers, pads etc, always use brush with softer wires than the metal you are about to clean 👍

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rolson-Mini-Wire-Brush-Set/dp/B007R2H6UQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1L1XLMW4L30OB&keywords=wire+brush&qid=1648114263&sprefix=Wire+br%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-6

And here is why you should not use any grease on the hubs or pads. If you apply grease between discs and hubs those will cause the discs to seat uneven and with each rotation will touch the brake pad at certain point which with the time will cause DTV and vibrations. Same will happen if you don’t clean properly the hubs surfaces from rust. 
If you apply any grease on the pads, once the grease heats up will spread over the disc brake surfaces and will contaminate the pads and discs, again noise and vibrations. Also this will be accelerated when you wash your car, the water jet will send small grease particles straight onto the discs and then the results are obvious. 👍 That’s my experience, it is a recent and it’s proven, I had stopped using grease on brakes and all my brake issues disappeared. 60000 miles since my last change and they are as good as new and shiny too. 👌

[Stivino]

Another vote here for the no grease on brake parts.

Do new cars come with grease smeared over brake parts?  No!

 

[2009joe]

23 hours ago, SB1500 said:

This is all really interesting, ok, so I will avoid using it (unless - when I watch the Car Care Nut - if he does it, then I'll do what he says - given his almighty Toyota experience and all that!). Otherwise, I will go with what you guys say and see how it goes. 

Here are some close up photos of the Genuine Toyota Brake Discs and Pads. Ordered from Toyota's official eBay store so if any of you, with the D4D BMW engine Avensis 1.6 are reading this in the future, here is what to expect and the part numbers (as per their recommendations from my reg). 

I was hoping that Toyota would supply the the little metal wire like 'v' shaped parts that push the pads out as they wear - I saw this on the Car Care Nut brake video, and also on a brand new Ford sitting at a dealer the other day when I checked it out. Seems like one of those factory 'best practice' things even though it may be a nice to have over a need to have.   Unless.. with the particular Bosch braking system on my Avensis, this simply isn't an available part / option. My dealer says it isn't an option. Toyota said they have a part they can recommend, I believe it comes up at £70 or so, but again, no picture for me to confirm what comes with it.  

I just want it done 'right', you know?  Best practices, best (reasonable) parts - I know you could pay thousands for the cutting edge "best" parts but for all intents and purposes, I reckon the Toyota parts are the best between quality and value.  Let's face it, £362 for 'genuine' parts for a front and back brake job including discs, that's not too bad. My uncles Mazda 6 tourer, Mazda quoted over £600 for those parts! It uses an Akebono brake system. We replaced the pads on it on Tuesday, one of the calliper bolts (the bottom one with the rubber ring) was totally seized in, what an unholy job that was to get out, heat gun and a hammer came to the rescue.  It made me think, that I will 100% take mine out and re-grease them to prevent such an issue if I can down the line.  Is spray silicone grease as good? I can only find the spray kind at ECP.

 

Shopping list now is: 

- Rubber gloves

- Dust mask

- 3x tins of brake cleaner

I was going to get some 'blue Loctite' for the bolts, but maybe this is unnecessary? also can't find any on ECP (same day pickup is handy today if my other discs come in the post as I'm hoping they do) 

 

So excited to fit these tonight if Toyota posts them out!!! 

I can never understand that eBay genuine Toyota parts site u ordered genuine brake discs and we'll I ordered genuine Toyota discs and yours came with a sticker on it with numbers and my ones came with a sticker with ok and a couple numbers on it why don't they just come with a Toyota print on them like the box that's the same colour of box I got my discs in and pads came in same colour box 2 like yours .when u says why don't they send out pins for breaks pads do u mean when buying new pads they suppose 2 send out new sliding pins 2 that never happened I never seen that before but they send u out the wee tin clips for the pads .tbh every one on here says no copper grease but tbh maybe there right but tbh me I use as much coper grease and red rubber grease as I can as I for sure do not want the bother of anuthing sticking. 

[Guest]

Hi all, fitted all four brake corners last night. From 5.30-10pm. Quite enjoyed it. This car is so clean underneath, and everything came off without much hassle, went back on without much hassle, and unlike the DS3, not a single odd tool or strange design choice. The electric handbrake was a bit of a challenge but the Autel scanner I have was able to fully release and reset it.

Old pads weren't so bad but didn't have the same champfer on the edges by the looks of it.

There was copper grease on the hub and disc etc, funnily, it didn't even make the thing 'easily' drop off, and I used no greases other than doing the calliper slide pins.

Brakes are still bedding in for now. Success (so far)