That 12v battery (again!)

[IT Troll]

26 minutes ago, Bemused2 said:

Perhaps they should copy Ford with their 1950s Popular where a starting handle came as standard.

My first car, a Morris Minor (bought as a classic), had one of those. Really quite tricky to use.

[Roy124]

My neighbour has a self charging Kia Niro.  After my recent flat Battery we were talking and he said he didn't think it had a 12v Battery.  Out of curiosity I looked at  the Kia site.  It was most instructive. 

Similar to the Toyota but I thought better explained with recommendation to use a Battery charger once a fortnight.  The next bit was very interesting though. 

The latest version has a 12v Li battery and a battery reset switch.  You should not use a jump starter. 

Clearly 12v batteries for hybrids are an industry-wide problem but Kia has designed a different solution. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, IT Troll said:

Really quite tricky to use.

Not really. But unless used properly could result in a broken thumb!

[Roy124]

I think the 12v Battery issue for Hybrids is not its small size per se but the lack of an alternator.  On an ICE when the Battery voltage drops, particularly after an engine start, the alternator will do a rapid charge.  My last car had a large stop/start Battery. 

As Hybrids do not suffer this large discharge/recharge cycle the system only supplies a lower recharge rate hence the need for an hour in Ready mode. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Bemused2 said:

I was contacted by my main dealer with a special offer on a new Yaris.

Same here last month. Apparently I'm an "A List" customer. They must be desperate to get me in there because I also received a service due reminder letter, 1st ever, 3 weeks after it was due and a month after it had been completed elsewhere.

[Roy124]

Talking of Service due, I had to badger my dealer to complete the MyT app. 

[MikeSh]

22 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Clearly 12v batteries for hybrids are an industry-wide problem but Kia has designed a different solution. 

It's being a problem for pure EVs as well - for the same reasons.

In some cases they now switch the high voltage Battery on for a while on a schedule to keep the 12V Battery topped up.

Aside from having a higher capacity I'm not sure a lithium Battery in itself actually solves the problem - it will just last a bit longer before it's dead.

[Cyker]

Yeah usually the main reason they use 12v lithiums is for weight saving at the cost of... cost  

 

[Gerg]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

As Hybrids do not suffer this large discharge/recharge cycle the system only supplies a lower recharge rate hence the need for an hour in Ready mode. 

That's logical thinking.

But there are a few Toyota hybrid owners (usually Prius, usually in the US) who run quite large inverters off their 12v batteries.  Some more successfully than others, granted.  The charging capacity of their car's 12v inverter feed doesn't seem to get questioned by these owners.  Broadly speaking, it just works.  I appreciate that this is a Prius gen 2 below, so not exactly a recent model.

This is a video that I have just randomly chosen, but at the 22 minutes point (I checked - don't watch it all!), he shows how he is getting his mains inverter and 12v supplied when camping, suggesting that in his car the inverter can provide the 12v in 'big enough' amps when necessary. 

 

[preperationlaunch]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

I think the 12v battery issue for Hybrids is not its small size per se but the lack of an alternator.  On an ICE when the battery voltage drops, particularly after an engine start, the alternator will do a rapid charge.  My last car had a large stop/start battery. 

As Hybrids do not suffer this large discharge/recharge cycle the system only supplies a lower recharge rate hence the need for an hour in Ready mode. 

The DC/DC inverter is fused at about 100 amps, which is about the same as the output as Yaris' alternator on the petrol models. It actually supplies around 80A max according to a few sources I've seen online. People quite happily run 1kW inverters off of them

[Roy124]

Gerg, I have a 150w inverter, it works, though for how long I don't know. 

[Dala]

Attention!
who is going to measure the charging of the car Battery through the cigarette lighter socket - does not work
I tried yesterday
voltage when driving 14.0-14.1 constant
with lever in position "P" - 13.5V permanent

[Roy124]

Well yes.  In P it is showing the steady state voltage with no charge. 

Leave the car for a time, say a week, put it in Ready mode and it will tell you the charge after the rest period. 

It saves you having to open the bonnet and use a bolt meter. 

For a Corolla you would need to be a contortionist.  In a Yaris Cross I think you would need to be in the trunk

For a non hybrid however it could be far more useful. 

[Dala]

It will be necessary to use the CAN Bus or an external device connected directly to the car Battery to measure the voltage when charging the car Battery.

Unfortunately, the car Battery voltage meters in the cigarette lighter socket do not provide information on whether the charging system is OK 😞
The voltage is maintained at a certain value for the planned devices connected to this location.

[TonyHSD]

I only measured once the 12v Battery directly out of curiosity during last lockdown and showed 12.4V when the car was off, then started the car and voltage went up to 14.7V in P not driving, very similar results to a standard petrol car with alternator. 👍

[Roy124]

Years ago I was a fan of Gunsons gadgets, stroboscopic timing light, contactless coil etc.  One was a voltmeter.  Clip it to the Battery then on a long lead bring it to the driver's door and secure it in the window using the winder.  Then you could drive and watch the needle as you powered the car and changed the loads.  Very handy.  Of course it would not work with electric windows. 

I see they are still producing gadgets. 

 

[Dala]

The solution is more, for example, I have now found:
 

https://youtu.be/wjF_O38MS5w

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ANCEL-BM300-Car-Battery-Tester-12V-Bluetooth-Car-Battery-Analyzer-for-Android-IOS-Electric-Circuit-Electrical-System-Scanner/280387530

[Roy124]

Dala, very neat.

https://www.wiredcampers.co.uk/products/bluetooth-4-0-mobile-app-12v-battery-volt-meter-monitor-tester?variant=35794596069527&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2021-11-26&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAjw9LSSBhBsEiwAKtf0n933MBsFY3OKTSSTeUZtQxAAEjOEsXFsPwRaYTLpI382Bb_tVK47ZxoCMgkQAvD_BwE

There appear to be two very similar models some with prices under £20 but postage brings it up to & 25.

There is another, looks the same but has BM2 on the case.  One on Amazon one on eBay both under £20.

[IT Troll]

Seems like this information should be available from the infotainment screen.

On Smart Connect models it could even send an alert to your phone if voltage drops below a certain level.

[TonyHSD]

Just spotted a Ring smart charger at wilko, if anyone interested of cheap chargers. There are some tyre inflators too. 👍

[flash22]

A quick google - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-Automotive-RSC804-Battery-Charger/dp/B082VBV2Z9

[Dala]

1 hour ago, IT Troll said:

Seems like this information should be available from the infotainment screen.

On Smart Connect models it could even send an alert to your phone if voltage drops below a certain level.

only the hidden service menu will provide information about the car Battery voltage

 

[TonyHSD]

11 minutes ago, flash22 said:

A quick google - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-Automotive-RSC804-Battery-Charger/dp/B082VBV2Z9

That’s a better deal, I just wanted to share pics with specs 👌

[IT Troll]

2 hours ago, Dala said:

only the hidden service menu will provide information about the car battery voltage

Interesting. How do you get to that? I assume that is on the Touch 2 system.

[flash22]

11 minutes ago, IT Troll said:

Interesting. How do you get to that? I assume that is on the Touch 2 system.

This get asked so often, i have a .txt file on my desktop

Access to the service menu.

Press and hold the music or car button and turn the sidelights on and off 3 times - some cars with the touch2 you pull the hand brake up and down 3 times

 

 

Hidden service menu for the MM17 or 19

 

Press the Vol/Power button, so it displays Audio Off
Press the MENU button

Touch «Display»
Touch «Screen off»

Quickly press CH, 5 times  and immediately press TRACK, 5 times

turn the ignition off to exit the menu