That 12v battery (again!)

[Dala]

For me, the second day the voltmeter shows a voltage of 11.6V to 11.8V in accessory mode. It has been since the beginning.

[Chas G]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:33 PM, Michael legge said:

Had a chr before my Yaris cross new in March 2022.had the aa out three times since I brought it.I had 2 new batteries on chr which the dealership done to keep me quite.in 2023 should we have to go on the drive once a week to do this on a £30.000 car.does any know what size 12 battery is fitted compared to a normal car battery ie Ford Vauxhall .it realy is doing my head in a taken away the enjoyment of buying a hybrid .if you left the car on the drive and it got nicked your insurance whould be invalid.any ideas folks thank you.

I know exactly how you feel. I bought a 14 month old yaris cross 5 weeks ago and have done 220 miles so far.

After decades of trouble free toyota petrol cars it did not occur to me that my infrequent use could cause 12 volt Battery problems

I have stopped parking the thing in my garage because I am paranoid it might not boot up and then I would be stuck with a car that can't be moved.

I now resort to parking on the road where I can't leave it unsecured to charge it in ready mode or overnight on the CTEK.

If I change the car to a petrol it will cost me about £3.5k which I can ill afford. I am not sure what to do.

[Andrew Harrison]

10 minutes ago, Chas G said:

I know exactly how you feel. I bought a 14 month old yaris cross 5 weeks ago and have done 220 miles so far.

After decades of trouble free toyota petrol cars it did not occur to me that my infrequent use could cause 12 volt battery problems

I have stopped parking the thing in my garage because I am paranoid it might not boot up and then I would be stuck with a car that can't be moved.

I now resort to parking on the road where I can't leave it unsecured to charge it in ready mode or overnight on the CTEK.

If I change the car to a petrol it will cost me about £3.5k which I can ill afford. I am not sure what to do.

Not much comfort but consider buying a Stoplock to stop it being nicked when charging and a cigar lighter voltmeter to check when it needs charging 

[Chas G]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Harrison said:

Not much comfort but consider buying a Stoplock to stop it being nicked when charging and a cigar lighter voltmeter to check when it needs charging 

Thank you for your suggestions.

I have a BM2 Battery monitor which I will get fitted in the new year. At the moment I am checking every day using a voltmeter to earth from the jump start terminal.

My understanding was that the 12 volt socket is not live when the car is off. In ready mode the socket would show the charging voltage from the traction Battery.

I had thought of a steering lock but I would still need to leave the back door or window slightly open to get the cable out of the car and then across a busy pavement into my garage.

[jthspace]

17 minutes ago, Chas G said:

I have stopped parking the thing in my garage because I am paranoid it might not boot up and then I would be stuck with a car that can't be moved.

I now resort to parking on the road where I can't leave it unsecured to charge it in ready mode or overnight on the CTEK.

If I change the car to a petrol it will cost me about £3.5k which I can ill afford. I am not sure what to do.

Possible solution. Drive car into garage as usual.

1. Fit a socket to rear seat panel (see my pic earlier) which would be accessible in the garage in the event of a boost needed.

2. In boot, get a lead fitted to the Battery under the rear seat and terminate it in the boot (say) under the floor mat or even terminated in a 12v socket fitted to a panel. To this could be plugged (a) a CTEK or similar charger or (b) a Battery boost pack to emergency charge.

You would never be in the position of the car being unable to start or be moved. 

Question to others: Not sure if when the car is unlocked manually with a key, but Battery low, can the boot still be opened?

3. Final idea :  Terminate the lead from the battery to a small waterproof socket fitted into the black part of the rear bumper, similar to ones I've seen fitted for sump heaters on cars in cold climes.

These solutions may seem a bit extreme to some, but they are suggestions for Chas G as he seems extremely concerned about a potential battery issue and these were thoughts to try and help him with his concerns. All the add-ons could be done by a decent DIY or at a garage.

 

[Andrew Harrison]

10 minutes ago, Chas G said:

Thank you for your suggestions.

I have a BM2 battery monitor which I will get fitted in the new year. At the moment I am checking every day using a voltmeter to earth from the jump start terminal.

My understanding was that the 12 volt socket is not live when the car is off. In ready mode the socket would show the charging voltage from the traction battery.

I had thought of a steering lock but I would still need to leave the back door or window slightly open to get the cable out of the car and then across a busy pavement into my garage.

Take the reading in accessory mode (foot off brake) with the cigar lighter voltmeter

[hind]

32 minutes ago, jthspace said:

battery low, can the boot still be opened?

For me it succeeded on unlocking after almost 3 weeks of being parked. Mirrors were unfolding 3x slower than usual and trying to engage the Ready mode failed but still the interior was accessible 

[Chas G]

10 hours ago, jthspace said:

Possible solution. Drive car into garage as usual.

1. Fit a socket to rear seat panel (see my pic earlier) which would be accessible in the garage in the event of a boost needed.

2. In boot, get a lead fitted to the battery under the rear seat and terminate it in the boot (say) under the floor mat or even terminated in a 12v socket fitted to a panel. To this could be plugged (a) a CTEK or similar charger or (b) a battery boost pack to emergency charge.

You would never be in the position of the car being unable to start or be moved. 

Question to others: Not sure if when the car is unlocked manually with a key, but battery low, can the boot still be opened?

3. Final idea :  Terminate the lead from the battery to a small waterproof socket fitted into the black part of the rear bumper, similar to ones I've seen fitted for sump heaters on cars in cold climes.

These solutions may seem a bit extreme to some, but they are suggestions for Chas G as he seems extremely concerned about a potential battery issue and these were thoughts to try and help him with his concerns. All the add-ons could be done by a decent DIY or at a garage.

 

Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will discuss with Steven Eagell when it goes in for a service in January. I already have the bm2 Battery monitor and the leads for the Ctek charger which will be fitted in Jan.

If I had a clear idea of how to get the car out of the garage if the worst happens, that would put my mind at ease and I can stop worrying. 

10 years ago, none of this would have bothered me but now I am 70 and having had heart problems and other issues, I am no longer able to tackle jobs like before.

Thanks for your help 

Best wishes Chas 

[Toyotaownerfor25yrs]

I got my brand new Yaris Cross hybrid in March. In the Summer it was parked for two weeks while we went on holiday, and it started with no problem when we returned. But it was left undriven for just a few days over Christmas and failed to start when I decided to pop out for some shopping. I called the AA and the engineer got it going. If I read the above reports correctly, this is a serious design fault, which Toyota have failed to fix, both for older and for new models. I should not have to go to the expense and inconvenience of buying a charger to start the car every time I leave it for a few days; although I do find the advice from other owners useful. It also rather defeats the object of buying a fuel-efficient, eco-friendly car, if you have to drive it around aimlessly, burning fossil fuel, just to charge the Battery. Maybe those of us who have experienced this problem, should be visiting our local Toyota showrooms and doing a bit of loud complaining. The prospect of a serious loss of custom might just concentrate minds.

[Mojo1010]

They know about the 12v Battery problem, they are fitting larger capacity in new cars next year I've heard. That 2 weeks likely to have caused some lasting damaged to your Battery. If you have read other posts, the current Turkish Battery is the problem, also don't need to drive aimlessly, ready mode is fine. This should solve your problem. 

[hind]

1 hour ago, Toyotaownerfor25yrs said:

you have to drive it around aimlessly, burning fossil fuel, just to charge the battery

Or you can just recharge the Battery with a charger. 

I have a feeling that everyone accepted the usage of Battery boosters as a way to use the car. Well, the truth is, it's an emergency tool. Like the goo that goes into your tyre. It might help for now but you should visit the tyre repair shop or buy new one ASAP, not put more stuff inside when new holes are showing. Same thing goes with the booster, did you have to use it? Then charge the Battery ASAP (unless you are doing 12h drive), the longer the better to restore as much capacity as possible - with designed capacity of 35Ah you can't really afford loosing any Ah's 🙂

[Chas G]

2 hours ago, Toyotaownerfor25yrs said:

I got my brand new Yaris Cross hybrid in March. In the Summer it was parked for two weeks while we went on holiday, and it started with no problem when we returned. But it was left undriven for just a few days over Christmas and failed to start when I decided to pop out for some shopping. I called the AA and the engineer got it going. If I read the above reports correctly, this is a serious design fault, which Toyota have failed to fix, both for older and for new models. I should not have to go to the expense and inconvenience of buying a charger to start the car every time I leave it for a few days; although I do find the advice from other owners useful. It also rather defeats the object of buying a fuel-efficient, eco-friendly car, if you have to drive it around aimlessly, burning fossil fuel, just to charge the battery. Maybe those of us who have experienced this problem, should be visiting our local Toyota showrooms and doing a bit of loud complaining. The prospect of a serious loss of custom might just concentrate minds.

All manufacturers hybrids seem to suffer the same problems.

All the hybrid "clubs" here have many posts complaining. The petrol/diesel "clubs" have very few posts about Battery problems.

Your best bet is to buy a decent Battery charger and a Battery jump pack.

If you have a garage with a side window or door you can open to provide some ventilation, drive in and dont turn off, leave it in ready mode for a couple of hours to allow the traction battery to charge the 12 volt battery. The engine will start occasionally and run for a few minutes to top up the traction battery.

[Roy124]

I got my Yaris Cross in September last year.  A month later we left it in a car park at Southampton for two weeks.  We next left it in a car park at Gatwick and the valet parkers did not report any issues.  In September another fortnight  followed by a week in October. 

No issues.

However I have averaged 1,000 miles a month and put it on charge about once a month.

I treat my charger and jumper pack the same as my warning triangle,  tyre inflator,  spare wheel, space blanket, first air kit, towels,  gloves, tyre socks and snow shovel as sensible precautions. 

[skidlid]

We were advised by our Skoda dealer to get a smart charger during the first lockdown. Quite conveniently they were selling Ring brand ones for about £45 so said no thanks. When I got home ordered one on Amazon for 1/2 that delivered. Used it every 4 weeks or so over the colder months ever since and no issues so far despite the Fabia standing for up to 2 weeks at a time on occasions.

Fabia is almost 6 years old and on the original Battery, hope it gets to March.

Plan to use it on the Yaris and if necessary get a NOCO booster.

I appreciate we should not have to do this but if its a choice between arguing with the dealer of being prepared it seems to me to be an easy decision.

But what is wrong with using "ready mode" every week or so? Seems to be fitted for a reason. Modern cars use very little fuel at idle, its not like they run very rich like cars of years ago.

For the record the wifes cousin has a 22 plate Yaris (2 years old in March) and so far has not had an issue. Its her 2nd Mk 4 and is totally delighted with them.

[hind]

38 minutes ago, skidlid said:

But what is wrong with using "ready mode" every week or so?

It's a waste of energy as you power up systems that do not need to be powered up. If you have a safe spot to leave the car on Ready you can plug in the charger as well. 

Second thing is the potentially higher charge current. There is a rule of the thumb to charge the Battery with 1/10C = 3.5A in case of 35Ah Battery. Otherwise you degrade it somewhat. Internal charging circuit might deliver more than that to the Battery esp if its discharged.  

[Cyker]

That's pretty negligible tho', and lead acid batteries can take higher charge currents than newer Battery types without any appreciable degradation.

It's horses for courses really - If you have the charger and it's more convenient then do that, otherwise there's nothing wrong with jut turning the car on/putting it into Ready for a bit.

I like driving so it gives me even more excuse to just go on an aimless drive around the more interesting roads; I find it quite therapeutic just cruising around some twisty A and B roads with just me and some music, although I sometimes think it would be cool if there was a car version of these motorcycle convoys, where a group of biker mates just goes on a trip on some fun scenic route just for the fun of it.

 

[Andrew Harrison]

I think some are missing the point here, I bought this Yaris and traded in my Fiesta that I had from new, it was seven years old and still on the same Battery. I did the same small mileage that I am doing now and never once had a Battery problem. If my Toyota dealer had told me about the problems with low mileage or leaving it standing for days I would not have touched it with a bargepole. The last time I wondered if the car would start in a morning was when I ran old bangers in the sixties. I think if this problem was common knowledge sales of hybrid Toyotas would take a big nosedive so no wonder Toyota don't mention it. Maybe it is time somebody brought this to the attention of a TV consumer program then I think you would see Toyota fix the problem pretty sharpish, although it wont be me because my second hand value would drop I think.

[Gren]

My Mazda 6 diesel was 10 years old before I changed the battery; my Renault Captur diesel needed a new Battery at 4 years old.  Probably due to the current drawn when the Renault was parked for a couple of weeks, much like the new Yaris. 

[anchorman]

13 hours ago, Andrew Harrison said:

I think some are missing the point here, I bought this Yaris and traded in my Fiesta that I had from new, it was seven years old and still on the same battery. I did the same small mileage that I am doing now and never once had a battery problem. If my Toyota dealer had told me about the problems with low mileage or leaving it standing for days I would not have touched it with a bargepole. The last time I wondered if the car would start in a morning was when I ran old bangers in the sixties. I think if this problem was common knowledge sales of hybrid Toyotas would take a big nosedive so no wonder Toyota don't mention it. Maybe it is time somebody brought this to the attention of a TV consumer program then I think you would see Toyota fix the problem pretty sharpish, although it wont be me because my second hand value would drop I think.

I know how you feel but we’ve heard it all before Andrew/John.  I’ve been running cars 50 years blah blah but you haven’t been running modern cars.  You can hunt round and find something more conventional in some sort of kneejerk reaction but the rest of it is garbage by comparison.   The bottom line is that they are fitting a questionable 12V Battery from new and for sure that needs addressing but if you fix that with a decent 12v Battery yourself you’ve got the best all round car in the sector.   Don’t worry, we’re not missing the point, we’ve known about the point for some time.

[Andrew Harrison]

44 minutes ago, anchorman said:

I know how you feel but we’ve heard it all before Andrew/John.  I’ve been running cars 50 years blah blah but you haven’t been running modern cars.  You can hunt round and find something more conventional in some sort of kneejerk reaction but the rest of it is garbage by comparison.   The bottom line is that they are fitting a questionable 12V battery from new and for sure that needs addressing but if you fix that with a decent 12v battery yourself you’ve got the best all round car in the sector.   Don’t worry, we’re not missing the point, we’ve known about the point for some time.

That is the point, Toyota should offer to replace these batteries, they did with mine but not sure now if it was the same old one as from new. 

[anchorman]

Just now, Andrew Harrison said:

That is the point, Toyota should offer to replace these batteries, they did with mine but not sure now if it was the same old one as from new. 

And that’s another problem.  Once you get past the surprised look, then the lecture about not using the car enough, then giving up your car for two days while Toyota make sure they’re not going to give away a Battery that cost them about £30, they replace it with a Battery that’s only worth £30.  I love the Toyota/Lexus brand but they do let themselves down on occasions.   They are in a difficult position because if you start shelling out new batteries, the floodgates will open but I doubt the cost of these pretend investigations are cheap.  I’d love to sit and talk to them at Great Burgh but they insulate themselves with the dealer network.  

[Mojo1010]

One would think Toyota would have learnt a lesson by now with the mistake they've made using an inferior brand for the 12v Battery, and as well a small 35Ah to reduce cost. 

Still, I've not had a problem for 5.5 years with a 35Ah Battery with no back up items. And it would almost solved the issue with a better brand 45Ah Battery should a problem arise. Many people are not really comparing apples for apples, modern car drains more power with all the electronics than older cars. No way would I move to another brand, a simple better and bigger capacity battery brand should solve the problem. 

[Roy124]

23 minutes ago, Andrew Harrison said:

That is the point, Toyota should offer to replace these batteries, they did with mine but not sure now if it was the same old one as from new. 

Andrew,  my dealer provided a 42Ahr to replace the faulty 35Ahr original. 

[Roy124]

My BiL has a Ford PHEV.  His mileage is low and mostly on EV.  He bought a 12v charger and a jumper pack.

That jumper pack has multiple uses besides starting the car.  It has a light.  It can charge a mobile phone.   It is a prudent buy.

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Mojo1010 said:

One would think Toyota would have learnt a lesson by now with the mistake they've made using an inferior brand for the 12v battery, and as well a small 35Ah to reduce cost. 

Still, I've not had a problem for 5.5 years with a 35Ah battery with no back up items. And it would almost solved the issue with a better brand 45Ah battery should a problem arise. Many people are not really comparing apples for apples, modern car drains more power with all the electronics than older cars. No way would I move to another brand, a simple better and bigger capacity battery brand should solve the problem. 

There’s a contractual thing that goes on so they may only be able to change either supplier with a model change.  They can under certain situations but you might find Mutley batteries are very cheap compared to the nearest alternative supplier etc.  I hope the new model comes with something better.