Prime / PHEV Successor

[Nick72]

So I'm already thinking what I do in less than 2 years time when I need to order a new company car. 

Do I ...

A. Buy the current R4P off then at a stupid low auction price.

B. Go Electric and get the new Toyota BZDGXYZ1234XYZ AWD version (range looking like 290 miles with Toyota's excellent design for reducing sensitivity to temperatures and speed). Might just cut it for me. Power is a little whimpy though. Prefer another 100hp. And another 50 miles range of I'm honest.

C. Get a RIVIAN.

D. Get a small electric car and just get the train for long business trips and hire an SUV for family hols in the UK.

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/bz4x

[philip42h]

That's easy ... A + D - saves hiring anything for your holidays and gives you an alternative to the train.

[Nick72]

25 minutes ago, philip42h said:

That's easy ... A + D - saves hiring anything for your holidays and gives you an alternative to the train.

Think I'd just do A in that case as D doesn't add anything to A.

[Cyker]

I'd say A, as B and C are going to be a lot more money for very little gain, and D will just be torture.

My plan is to wait for someone to make a non-garbage EV, so I reckon I'm in with my Mk4 for the long haul!!

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I'd say A, as B and C are going to be a lot more money for very little gain, and D will just be torture.

My plan is to wait for someone to make a non-garbage EV, so I reckon I'm in with my Mk4 for the long haul!!

Doesn't cost me anymore. Indeed the Toyota BeeZeeBeeDeeBeeDeeX423456789Z5000 whatever the hell they called it would save me about 130 quid a month versus the RAV because of lower BiK tax and costs less than what the value of the RAV was when I ordered it. Crazy world of company car tax.

Rivian will cost a little more per month all things considered. Think they are going to start at around 58k. And I think I want the pull out kitchen. LoL.

Definitely waiting for a decent EV too. Ideally, over 300 miles of winter motorway range. 350hp. SUV. AWD.

 

 

[ernieb]

I’d probably go for option A and keep my powder dry for a couple of years and see what evolves with a decent EV winter range.

[Nick72]

4 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I’d probably go for option A and keep my powder dry for a couple of years and see what evolves with a decent EV winter range.

Sounds like that might be a good plan. I'd just need to stump up 20k from somewhere. 

[Mike2222]

54 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Crazy world of company car tax

This is the key part of the equation. How much longer do you anticipate being in the 2yr company car cycle? Does it financially benefit you to buy the Rav4 (option A) in future years? I have never had a company car, but often wondered how the ins & outs of it work, ie if you buy & use your own vehicle for work, yes you will get to claim for the mileage, but do you get any bump in salary to account for the cost the company would have spent on your car? 

 

Essentially, if close to retirement, then option A has strong value until EV technology has reached the stage you require/desire. However if you've got plenty of 2yr cycles left in your career, then you can afford to be a bit more whimsical about it, eg if your curious about the Bee-lzebub/Rivian/whatever else takes your fancy. 

[Cyker]

Yeah I must admit the Rivian is very cool - I have literally no reasonably justifiable excuse for getting such a ludicrous vehicle (The only time I do anything even vaguely resembling off-roading is parking in a field for airshows/car events!), nevermind a pull-out camp kitchen (I hate camping!) and I doubt that thing would even fit down half the streets I drive down regularly, but the whole thing is just so awesome!

It also has major props in that the prototypes were used in Long Way Up so they have verifiable real-world 'adventure' usability and reliability, which very few SUVs and 4x4s can really lay claim to these days.

I'd definitely take one over the ridiculous tesla cybertruck  

[TonyHSD]

A 👍

[Rav4ster]

With the current supply issues and high second hand car prices, option A might not be as cheap as you hope.
To give an example, I sent my mk5 RAV4 HEV Design 2wd back to the leasing company in September 2021. The car was 2 years old, with 20k on the clock and in pristine condition. I asked the leasing company if I could buy it, and they put me in contact with the action house. Action house said yes, you can buy it for £27500 (new car retail price was about £32000). We had an interesting conversation where I said that I can buy a new car for £1000 more from the online broker or £2500 more from the dealer via CarWow, but had to wait for at least 6 months. They agreed with me, but lots of people do not want to wait and prepared to pay silly money for used cars. In the end, I leased another RAV4 HEV, it was much cheaper than PCP over the same term.

[Cyker]

What, they can raise the final price of the car??

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, Mike2222 said:

This is the key part of the equation. How much longer do you anticipate being in the 2yr company car cycle? Does it financially benefit you to buy the Rav4 (option A) in future years? I have never had a company car, but often wondered how the ins & outs of it work, ie if you buy & use your own vehicle for work, yes you will get to claim for the mileage, but do you get any bump in salary to account for the cost the company would have spent on your car? 

 

Essentially, if close to retirement, then option A has strong value until EV technology has reached the stage you require/desire. However if you've got plenty of 2yr cycles left in your career, then you can afford to be a bit more whimsical about it, eg if your curious about the Bee-lzebub/Rivian/whatever else takes your fancy. 

It's a 3 year cycle but must put an order in for a new car 6 months from time to the next.

I get a salary bump to cover it which I can take as cash at the nominal 40 or 45pc tax depending on what of year I had.

So, I don't take the cash because the R4P works out at only 7 or 8pc BiK Tax. This translated means I get most of my allowance to spend on a company car which is like a lease but I'm in a huge company which does business with another huge company (car lease). The overall result is I'm paying a lease which is less than two thirds that of a regular person getting a lease car.  

It is insured on our corporate wide policy so I don't pay insurance. Maintenance including servicing, repairs, tyres etc is all covered by the company. Hence zero extra to pay for. 

Overall I get a car for about half the cost as a normal lease + all the extras you need to pay for including insurance.

But to get such a good deal one needs to go good PHEV or EV (which is just 2pc or 3pc BiK tax). Getting a 4litre BMW X5 doesn't make any sense financially.

 

Buying the car at the end of the lease does make sense. Lots of folk have done this because they sell them to you irrespective of mileage, wear n tear, at the book auction price. But, there's a cash flow matter to consider and the hassle of tax, insurance, faffing which I don't need to worry about at all normally. But yes, I could buy then sell for what I bought it for 2 or 3 years later. 

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah I must admit the Rivian is very cool - I have literally no reasonably justifiable excuse for getting such a ludicrous vehicle (The only time I do anything even vaguely resembling off-roading is parking in a field for airshows/car events!), nevermind a pull-out camp kitchen (I hate camping!) and I doubt that thing would even fit down half the streets I drive down regularly, but the whole thing is just so awesome!

It also has major props in that the prototypes were used in Long Way Up so they have verifiable real-world 'adventure' usability and reliability, which very few SUVs and 4x4s can really lay claim to these days.

I'd definitely take one over the ridiculous tesla cybertruck  

I've seen some rock climbing videos. I mean, up a canyon wall at 55 degrees with huge boulders. Worked like a charm. Know some of the folk at Rivian. They have assembled an A team of ex pats. 

So I was thinking more about the zombie apocalypse than camping. I can put a 40m sq roll out polymer solar array and inverter into the trunk or bed of the truck, tins of beans and bottled water in the massive frunk, pull out kitchen for beans and wild rabbit stew.  

 

Thinking ahead.

[Nick72]

46 minutes ago, Rav4ster said:

With the current supply issues and high second hand car prices, option A might not be as cheap as you hope.
To give an example, I sent my mk5 RAV4 HEV Design 2wd back to the leasing company in September 2021. The car was 2 years old, with 20k on the clock and in pristine condition. I asked the leasing company if I could buy it, and they put me in contact with the action house. Action house said yes, you can buy it for £27500 (new car retail price was about £32000). We had an interesting conversation where I said that I can buy a new car for £1000 more from the online broker or £2500 more from the dealer via CarWow, but had to wait for at least 6 months. They agreed with me, but lots of people do not want to wait and prepared to pay silly money for used cars. In the end, I leased another RAV4 HEV, it was much cheaper than PCP over the same term.

That will be interesting. The corporate lease company we use skip the auction house step and just deal direct with us on agreeing price which is just auction book price. But as you say the used prices are unreasonably high at present. BMW wanted to buy my wife's mini back for more than she paid a few years back! She said no thanks.

[Rav4ster]

12 minutes ago, Cyker said:

What, they can raise the final price of the car??

Not on PCP, both of my RAVs are on PCH (Zenauto before, Arnold Clark now), so the lease company can charge what ever they want in the end.
In my case, it was a lot cheaper to PCH the car over 3 years, than to buy on PCP or personal loan for the same term length.

Nick72
My wife's Auris 2016 was valued by WBAC 2 years ago with 30k miles at £8000, today with 48K miles it is valued at £11500, that is the staggering increase. If you can get the car at the end of the lease at a good price, buy it and keep it, or sell it quickly to the trade buyers for profit, you just need to do your math and as you said have cash available.