12v Battery on 1.8 Hybrid.

[Frosted]

1 hour ago, dannyboy413 said:

Hi @Frosted  Firstly an apology and correction - what I should have said is that "I have an AA solar trickle charger on order that I was going to connect to the OBD socket whilst the car is unattended" - oops!  The one I have on order is the 4.8w version. I have read numerous reviews, the majority of which seem very positive, if it is used correctly. Apparently, a few people have blown fuses by switching on the ignition whilst the charger is still connected to the OBD point. The charger should be delivered immediately after Easter and I will be testing it before the holiday, so I will report back. Although models for the Irish market vary from the models for the UK market, I would presume that something like the OBD port would be the same in all models - maybe somebody could confirm or deny this?

 

Thanks Dannyboy and no worries 🙂 Will appreciate your feedback on how well the 4.8w version performs. 

[dannyboy413]

@Frosted and anybody else interested. The AA 4.8w trickle charger arrived today. I have not connected to the car yet, but I did connect it to the 12v Battery that allows me to have an electric start button on the lawnmower. The Battery did not have enough charge to fire up the lawnmower last week, so back to the 'old fashioned' pull on a bit of rope trick. I used the Battery clips and connected to the solar panel. The weather has been cloudy here this afternoon and after the charger had been connected for about an hour, I realised it was raining! Cue a quick trip outside to disconnect everything and put the lawnmower back in the shed. Out of interest, I pressed the start button on the lawnmower - it made a noise and then, lo and behold, it fired up! And that was after about a one hour trickle charge in cloudy conditions. It certainly seems promising.

[Spo2]

5 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

@Frosted and anybody else interested. The AA 4.8w trickle charger arrived today. I have not connected to the car yet, but I did connect it to the 12v battery that allows me to have an electric start button on the lawnmower. The battery did not have enough charge to fire up the lawnmower last week, so back to the 'old fashioned' pull on a bit of rope trick. I used the battery clips and connected to the solar panel. The weather has been cloudy here this afternoon and after the charger had been connected for about an hour, I realised it was raining! Cue a quick trip outside to disconnect everything and put the lawnmower back in the shed. Out of interest, I pressed the start button on the lawnmower - it made a noise and then, lo and behold, it fired up! And that was after about a one hour trickle charge in cloudy conditions. It certainly seems promising.

Can you please post a link to the one you bought? It seems there are 2 AA solar chargers - one cost like £35 and the other £25.

[TonyHSD]

6 minutes ago, Spo2 said:

Can you please post a link to the one you bought? It seems there are 2 AA solar chargers - one cost like £35 and the other £25.

The charger went back to £43, not a big deal £8 more , it was reduced yesterday only. The cheaper ones are 2.4w and this one is 4.8w

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AA-Essentials-AA1432-Battery-Charger/dp/B084M5ZL5L/ref=sr_1_5?crid=387V27QR1M0PD&keywords=aa%2Bsolar%2Bbattery%2Bcharger%2B12v%2Bideal%2Bfor%2Bcars&qid=1649961100&quartzVehicle=29-10519&replacementKeywords=aa%2Bsolar%2Bbattery%2B12v%2Bideal%2Bfor%2Bcars&sprefix=%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-5&th=1

its very large size indeed. 

[dannyboy413]

The one Tony links to - and bought - is the same as the one I have just bought.

[JRmagee]

I’m picking up my 2019 Corolla design tomorrow 🙂 previously had Hyundai i30 and ix20s. First time owning a hybrid, average 300 miles a week. 
 

Do you have to charge the Battery often if car is running at least 6 days out of 7? Beginning to panic that I’ll get caught out with a flat Battery 😞

[TonyHSD]

16 minutes ago, JRmagee said:

I’m picking up my 2019 Corolla design tomorrow 🙂 previously had Hyundai i30 and ix20s. First time owning a hybrid, average 300 miles a week. 
 

Do you have to charge the battery often if car is running at least 6 days out of 7? Beginning to panic that I’ll get caught out with a flat battery 😞

Hi, 

no need to worry about batteries when you gonna use the car as much. I am driving a bit too and my car still on it’s original batteries after 12 years and over 200k miles. 
 

[alan333]

24 minutes ago, JRmagee said:

I’m picking up my 2019 Corolla design tomorrow 🙂 previously had Hyundai i30 and ix20s. First time owning a hybrid, average 300 miles a week. 
 

Do you have to charge the battery often if car is running at least 6 days out of 7? Beginning to panic that I’ll get caught out with a flat battery 😞

Not sure how problematic the Battery problem actually is, but personally, I’m not expecting a flat Battery at all during my ownership, unless I was doing only a handful of miles ie not enough for the Battery to be charged, like in a normal car.  IMHO if it goes flat there’s a problem with the car and I’ll get it repaired.  Enjoy your new car 🙂

[Cyker]

44 minutes ago, JRmagee said:

Do you have to charge the battery often if car is running at least 6 days out of 7? Beginning to panic that I’ll get caught out with a flat battery 😞

You should be fine; It's mainly a problem for people who don't drive very often or only do short journeys.

 

[Spo2]

Think Toyota's recommendation is to leave the car car in ready position for 15 minutes a week. So if you drive 15 minutes each day in start stop traffic, it should be fine. 

[Roy124]

10 hours ago, alan333 said:

Not sure how problematic the battery problem actually is, but personally, I’m not expecting a flat battery at all during my ownership,..... IMHO if it goes flat there’s a problem with the car and I’ll get it repaired.  Enjoy your new car 🙂

Correct.  The problem only arises when the car is not used and you are unable to use the Ready mode as suggested.  Typically this will be when you go on holiday for 2 weeks or so. 

Apart from the inconvenience you can soon get a jump start.  Many car park companies will have jump kits on site. 

Discussion here really revolves around 'first aid' solutions such as Li Jumper packs or Solar chargers, and CTEK type chargers for periodic conditioning. 

[Kental]

 

 

[Roy124]

Snap, but then I use my garage. 

[Kental]

Just now, Roy124 said:

Snap, but then I use my garage. 

Garage full of other stuff and also badly placed post so no way of leaving car.

[TonyHSD]

15 min at a time might not be sufficient. 25-30+ min is the better and preferred option. If not able, that’s ok however there is a trick and tip to follow if you would like to have healthy 12v battery: 

Try to keep the car in ready mode as long as possible.

Try to avoid unnecessary opening and closing of the drivers door

Turn off interior lights during summer season when you most likely never need them and especially if you are walking around the car with key fob on your pocket. 
 

👍

[AndrueC]

13 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

15 min at a time might not be sufficient. 25-30+ min is the better and preferred option.

Why do you suggest a minimum journey time? I can understand with a conventional vehicle that a short journey might not be enough time because the Battery takes a big hit when it starts the ICE. However we don't have that problem with hybrids. I'd expect the drain on the 12v Battery to be fairly constant regardless of what the vehicle is doing (ignoring things like radio/lights because they are always offset by the car being in ready mode when used).

That suggests to me that all you need is sufficient time in ready mode to recharge for the alarm system and infotainment keep alive. Whether you do that in a single journey or split across multiple journeys doesn't seem like it should matter.

[TonyHSD]

23 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Why do you suggest a minimum journey time? I can understand with a conventional vehicle that a short journey might not be enough time because the battery takes a big hit when it starts the ICE. However we don't have that problem with hybrids. I'd expect the drain on the 12v battery to be fairly constant regardless of what the vehicle is doing (ignoring things like radio/lights because they are always offset by the car being in ready mode when used).

That suggests to me that all you need is sufficient time in ready mode to recharge for the alarm system and infotainment keep alive. Whether you do that in a single journey or split across multiple journeys doesn't seem like it should matter.

That’s what I meant to exactly, the car been “ON” “ready mode”, or driving which is the same. Btw in standard petrol or diesel it’s also the same as long as engine is running at idle the Battery gets as much charge as if you are on the motorway at 70mph, driving faster does not recharge Battery better or quicker. 👌👍

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Why do you suggest a minimum journey time? I can understand with a conventional vehicle that a short journey might not be enough time because the battery takes a big hit when it starts the ICE. However we don't have that problem with hybrids. I'd expect the drain on the 12v battery to be fairly constant regardless of what the vehicle is doing (ignoring things like radio/lights because they are always offset by the car being in ready mode when used).

That suggests to me that all you need is sufficient time in ready mode to recharge for the alarm system and infotainment keep alive. Whether you do that in a single journey or split across multiple journeys doesn't seem like it should matter.

Tony wasn't suggesting a minimum journey time, more a minimum' on' time!

I must admit I don't understand why the 12v in hybrids gets drained so easily compared to ICE cars; Once the traction Battery is engaged it has almost nothing to do so should get charged to max capacity quickly and easily.

The only thing that seems plausible is that the system is not putting enough charge into the Battery for some reason; Even Start-Stop ICE cars have less problems with their 12v's and those 12v's must be under far more stress!

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

That’s what I meant to exactly, the car been “ON” “ready mode”, or driving which is the same. Btw in standard petrol or diesel it’s also the same as long as engine is running at idle the battery gets as much charge as if you are on the motorway at 70mph, driving faster does not recharge battery better or quicker. 👌👍

Is that true? I thought the alternator delivers more amps the higher the RPM of the engine; I assume that's why it's recommended you hold the engine at at least 2000rpm when jumpstarting another car and why ICE cars don't get this problem as much, as the hybrids only have constant-rate DC-DC charging for the Battery...?

 

[TonyHSD]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Tony wasn't suggesting a minimum journey time, more a minimum' on' time!

I must admit I don't understand why the 12v in hybrids gets drained so easily compared to ICE cars; Once the traction battery is engaged it has almost nothing to do so should get charged to max capacity quickly and easily.

The only thing that seems plausible is that the system is not putting enough charge into the battery for some reason; Even Start-Stop ICE cars have less problems with their 12v's and those 12v's must be under far more stress!

Is that true? I thought the alternator delivers more amps the higher the RPM of the engine; I assume that's why it's recommended you hold the engine at at least 2000rpm when jumpstarting another car and why ICE cars don't get this problem as much, as the hybrids only have constant-rate DC-DC charging for the battery...?

 

It’s true 100%. Alternators has voltage regulator and that is set at 14.7v let say and no matter engine rpm this will stay same or very similar. Some small underpowered engines may stall if alternator has loaded  them over their capacity at idle, when  more energy required for jump starting a larger car which should never be done. Golden rule is bigger car starts smaller. Alternator also load the engine similar to mg1 when charging  the hybrid Battery.
For the 12v system to the best of my knowledge everything except AC and hybrid power train is feed by the 12v Battery which obviously gets its charge directly from the inverter/converter which works as alternator in standard cars.  
If the 12v Battery is dead in a standard car to the point that can not hold any charge the car itself can not remain ON - engine will not be running with depleted battery , its the case with Toyota hybrids. Our cars (hybrids) has small 12v batteries because they do not turn engine starter that is the biggest energy consumer, followed by ac system and electric power steering. 
In Toyota hybrids the biggest energy draw from 12v battery is the brake booster pump, which pressurises and de pressurises the brake system ever time the ignition is ON or OFF or when drivers door been open or shut.  

[Cyker]

I know they have a voltage regulator, but they don't have current regulators AFAIK, so while it will hold the voltage at 14.7-ish, does the current not rise with rpm...? Hmm, on balance probably not as you can't push out more amps than the system wants or things start catching fire... But then why the advice to raise RPM when jumpstarting another car? Higher RPM = higher maximum current available but not necessarily drawn??

 

 

[Roy124]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

 

"Try to avoid unnecessary opening and closing of the driver's door" 

👍

Why? 

[TonyHSD]

18 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Why? 

Hi Roy, 

this is actually what drains the 12v Battery the most.
When opening the door the car things you are about to drive and pressurises the brake system (draws significant amount of energy). Then when you close the door without driving off the car believes that your journey has ended and de pressurises the brake system and draws power from 12v Battery again. 
I noticed that in the nights when I open the drivers door and keep it open form a minute then the system started to de pressurise itself and the interior light was ON and did dimmed a bit while the pump was working. I remember since that the same thing was happening on brand new Priuses I was driving before. You can try that on your car and see if is going to happen too. 👍

[Roy124]

Tony, thought that might be the case. 

[AndrueC]

Has anyone ever definitively confirmed if leaving the car unlocked uses more or less power than leaving it locked? Mine is in a locked garage and I leave it unlocked.

[Roy124]

Car unlocked I get a blinking red light above left indicator arrow.  Locked car and it went steady red.  After a short interval it resumed blinking red. 

In the latter case it presumably indicates alarm but when the car is unlocked?