Yaris Clutch Biting Point

[venomx]

Ever since I had the Yaris at 65,000 miles ( it's now done 73,000 ) it has had a very low biting point. Not really an issue after I got used to it. Done some reading on here and others have said too that the Yaris MK1 and MK2 have a very low biting point.

When at lights stationary I really have to press the clutch down to keep it from stalling. On hills the biting point seems a bit higher. Maybe it's supposed to be like this ?

Recently the biting point seems a bit lower, and the clutch pedal moves in and out more easily when pressed with my left foot ( less resistance ). There is a bit of movement if I wobble the pedal around.

Driving about is no problem, no grinding, no problems getting into gear etc.

Just wondering you guys thoughts on this? As I thought over time the biting point gets higher, not lower...

I did recently lubricate this part of the clutch as it had developed a clicking noise every time I used the clutch, clicking noise is now gone, and the clutch feels more back to normal..

 

[donkeychomp]

If it works fine then I'd just carry on driving it until it becomes an issue then get a new clutch. That's exactly what happened with my MK1. I have that annoying click too (even with the new clutch) and I shall try your solution!

[Cyker]

It is a self-adjusting hydraulic type so maybe it has self-adjusted??  

See how it goes, it may keep moving around a bit. It may also be it hasn't moved but just feels like it has because you've lubricated it and it's more free to move??

 

[venomx]

9 hours ago, donkeychomp said:

If it works fine then I'd just carry on driving it until it becomes an issue then get a new clutch. That's exactly what happened with my MK1. I have that annoying click too (even with the new clutch) and I shall try your solution!

Yes as I was advised, try silicone lubricant. Instantly got rid of the click

[scannerman]

My wifes MK2 had a secondary foot matt that went under the clutch pedal preventing full disengagement. I cut the corner out, problem solved. Maybe you have the same.

 

 

 

[corradovr6]

I think you can loosen the clutch pedal locknut and wind the fitting out a turn or so. Should give a little bit more movement at the gearbox end for the same pedal travel. I need to do this too. Its one of my real hates on the yaris. My old one had the same issue. It seems its a yaris querk..

[TonyHSD]

12 hours ago, corradovr6 said:

I think you can loosen the clutch pedal locknut and wind the fitting out a turn or so. Should give a little bit more movement at the gearbox end for the same pedal travel. I need to do this too. Its one of my real hates on the yaris. My old one had the same issue. It seems its a yaris querk..

That bolt is for adjustment of free travel. If you mess with it you can accelerate premature failure of the clutch kit. Best not to touch it or to check repair manual for information before doing this job. If your hydraulic clutch pedal biting point has changed it may mean you have a worn out master cylinder or air locked inside the system. You can test by pumping three times before select gear and move , if biting point changes you should look towards these two possible issues. Playing with things that ain’t broken often leads to more problems. 👍

[venomx]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

That bolt is for adjustment of free travel. If you mess with it you can accelerate premature failure of the clutch kit. Best not to touch it or to check repair manual for information before doing this job. If your hydraulic clutch pedal biting point has changed it may mean you have a worn out master cylinder or air locked inside the system. You can test by pumping three times before select gear and move , if biting point changes you should look towards these two possible issues. Playing with things that ain’t broken often leads to more problems. 👍

Good idea. I better leave it then and accept it's wear and tear. I'm sure I'll get used to the biting point being a bit lower. Strange how it happened within the period of a day though

[Stevie J]

Since owning my 2006 mark 2, which I got as a low mileage (22K miles) from my mother 6 years ago, and its now only covered 39K miles,  I have always had this annoying problem, the biting point is very low down, and sometimes when the weather is warm, or the car has been used for a drive of a few miles and the transmission gets warm, the flywheel does not completely disengage the clutch plate even when the pedal is mashed to the carpet, and this is most noticeable when trying to get the car into reverse from neutral - when I get that awful crunch as the gears grind, but it usually always goes in gear though, as it is only a very slight amount of clutch drag. I have initially tried bleeding the slave cylinder, I have had the clutch pedal actuating rod apart looking for ways to adjust the pedal travel, but there is no effective adjustment on the system. So for the last 6 years, I have put up with the issue which varies in severity according to the weather, dampness, and transmission temperature. The Mark 1 I had before never had this issue with its biting point being almost at the top of the pedal travel, so getting this mark 2, I thought initially there was a slave or master cylinder problem, but no, reading Honest John's Yaris review a few years ago, clutches that fail to completely disengage on early mark 2 cars is fairly common, and its just something you cant do much about apart from learn to live with it. It never seems to get so bad that gears cannot be changed at all, just embarrassing when the people in my street he me crunching in and out of reverse when parking my car up.

[Guest]

I'd rule out air in the system or any signs of fluid leakage from the master cylinder as suggested by Tony. That has a direct mechanical connection to the pedal.

Is the slave cylinder in the bell housing? Daft design! It could even be a problem/leak with that. Don't just assume it is though, major dismantling involved for access/changing.

[Cyker]

AFAIK, they all use a normal fork and release bearing system with an external slave cylinder, except for the 6-speed 1.33 VVTi from 2009 onwards, which use a newfangled concentric slave cylinder.

I never experienced this with my Mk2 so not sure what to suggest!

[scannerman]

I remember years ago working on a 'classic mini', the slave pushed a bar at one end, at the other end it had a ball on a small rod that engaged with the thrust bearing, the bar was pivoted about a third of its length. Over time the rod connecting the ball would bend, moving the clutch engagement point to where the clutch would not disengage properly, fortunately it was easy to replace the bar. So to the Yaris, if parts like the engagement forks were to bend or the pivots wear, its going to effect the clutch engagement, let alone the wear in the clutch assembly. In my wife's car, removing the double layer of carpet under the pedal helped but eventually I replaced the whole clutch assembly, problem gone.

[corradovr6]

I'm inclined to think its related to the pivot lengths from the fulcrum and the available extension from the clutch slave. It seems that a full push of the pedal to the floor only just allows the fork to release, so this should be increased further to allow a clean release. The problem will then be that on releasing the pedal the fork will not go all the way back resulting in clutch wear. Catch 22...

Just another thought though, adjusting the clutch pedal rod by opening the end fitting by a turn or so and then also moving the clutch pedal stop back by about the same amount 'might' be a way around it. The issue would then be that the pedal will be slightly higher than the brake pedal...

[Stevie J]

I dont think its a case of the clutch release lever that connects the slave to the thrust bearing bending, as my mother who had the car before me from just 11K miles, always said the clutch was very fierce and quick to bite, and she now prefers her 2014 Mk3 as that has the biting point where it should be, but if it had the issue from 11K miles, and 5 years old, then I think it cant be a case of the rod bending. I think its just a poor design, where the full extension of the slave piston does not give quite enough "push" to the release bearing to fully disengage drive with plenty of movement to spare, and the issue is not always present, it is variable - some days I can get in reverse with no noise and no issue, other days, it grinds, so it seems related to temperature, moisture, humidity or whatever reason the car seems to play up one day but not an another. 

[Guest]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:03 AM, Cyker said:

AFAIK, they all use a normal fork and release bearing system with an external slave cylinder, except for the 6-speed 1.33 VVTi from 2009 onwards, which use a newfangled concentric slave cylinder.

Re-inventing the wheel again!

[Cyker]

Well in theory it should be an improvement as it pushes directly and flatly on the diaphragm spring instead of at an angle, takes up less space and weight, doesn't need a big hole in bell housing for the fork and has less moving parts, but in reality it's more fragile and is a lot more expensive to replace...

 

[scannerman]

21 hours ago, Stevie J said:

I dont think its a case of the clutch release lever that connects the slave to the thrust bearing bending, as my mother who had the car before me from just 11K miles, always said the clutch was very fierce and quick to bite, and she now prefers her 2014 Mk3 as that has the biting point where it should be, but if it had the issue from 11K miles, and 5 years old, then I think it cant be a case of the rod bending. I think its just a poor design, where the full extension of the slave piston does not give quite enough "push" to the release bearing to fully disengage drive with plenty of movement to spare, and the issue is not always present, it is variable - some days I can get in reverse with no noise and no issue, other days, it grinds, so it seems related to temperature, moisture, humidity or whatever reason the car seems to play up one day but not an another. 

I wasn't suggesting that a bent lever was the cause but that any misalignment of the mechanism can multipliy the error when using the clutch.

[scannerman]

9 hours ago, mrpj1 said:

Re-inventing the wheel again!

I have both versions on my cars, I find the hydraulic release bearing smoother and hydraulics are pretty reliable, braking systems seem to be fairly bullet proof. As long as it lasts longer than the clutch.

[Rhymes with Paris]

This has made me think a bit.

I drove my Tsport yesterday about 15 miles , and bearing in mind this thread,paid attention to the clutch pedal.

The bite point is definitely low on the pedal travel, and this is a low mileage car ,52000 or so.

And yes the reverse gear is difficult to engage without crunching.

As in many things with an older car, you learn to drive round it.

I don't know much about the technical side as others do, but if I understand it right a lower bite point does not indicate clutch wear , and a higher bite point does.

No clutch slippage at all, but the bite point has definitely altered during my ownership, no clutch abuse .

I would have no idea where to source a new clutch if one were needed on a 19 year old car , but hope that this is something that can be lived with rather than an expensive repair.

Most noticeable to me when changing from 1st to 2nd when joining a roundabout , and clutch bite comes in sooner than expected meaning a bit jerky in 2nd.

 

 

 

[venomx]

@Rhymes with Paris fully agree there.

In reverse I used to get the crunch but  generally it's fine now as I know how to engage it properly. At first it was a common thing.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Cyker said:

it pushes directly and flatly on the diaphragm spring instead of at an angle

Not if the, used to be, carbon disc/bearing is pivoted which those properly designed did and operated equally on the leaf springs. Somewhat like the Watt Linkage on a beam engine.

Does it matter if there's a hole in the bell housing to accomodate the actuating lever? That should have a concertina type rubber cover.

[Bernard Foy]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:01 PM, donkeychomp said:

If it works fine then I'd just carry on driving it until it becomes an issue then get a new clutch. That's exactly what happened with my MK1. I have that annoying click too (even with the new clutch) and I shall try your solution!

Yep I’m a great believer in the old adage “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” !!!

[RJ414i]

My wife's 1.5 (17 reg, 24k miles) Yaris went back to Toyota today for a new rear wheel bearing under the (5 year) warranty.

When she got home she remarked that the clutch felt a lot better than before. I've not driven it since but it was fierce since she bought it privately last September.

I assume Toyota noticed something wasn't quite right and adjusted it?