Another Price rise on Rav4

[PAISLEY1903]

crazy prices...  I got my excel end September (21 plate) for £8743 to be exact cheaper than Toyota are on website for it new today.  Saying that I did get discount to start but not sure why anyone would purchase directly on their site !

[Lawnmowerman]

One of my main suppliers has had two price increases this year, beginning of January and this Monday coming.

Averaging a 12.35% increase.

Their nearest competitor have had three this year totalling an average 15%.

I also remember the dark days - literally (3 day week).

Also 17% interest having just moved from a flat to a 3 bed detached house (and MIRAS ending).

I'm sure we could all write our own books.

[Adaml99]

Car should have arrived at the dealers today but it wasn’t on the trailer. Think it’s got lost somewhere, but this the least of my problems…

My main issue is that when I ordered the vehicle the list price was £36K back in October, it’s now £41K so now have to pay this extra £350 a year for 5 years which works out at £1775 over 5 years.

this doesn’t sound fair to me, I bought this vehicle having deliberately decided to keep the list price well below £40K. Should I complain to Toyota about this? Shouldn’t they honour existing orders and price protect? 

I wonder how many other buyers got a surprise when they got around to collecting their vehicle and doing the final paperwork.  

[Vainona70]

Toyota are honouring the order price & any finance deals at that time. They are subject to inflated costs, including the huge increase in shipping costs. Yes you're not the only one (I'm in the same situation) & yes it's not fair, but Toyota can't influence the tax regime in place.

[FROSTYBALLS]

28 minutes ago, Adaml99 said:

Car should have arrived at the dealers today but it wasn’t on the trailer. Think it’s got lost somewhere, but this the least of my problems…

My main issue is that when I ordered the vehicle the list price was £36K back in October, it’s now £41K so now have to pay this extra £350 a year for 5 years which works out at £1775 over 5 years.

this doesn’t sound fair to me, I bought this vehicle having deliberately decided to keep the list price well below £40K. Should I complain to Toyota about this? Shouldn’t they honour existing orders and price protect? 

I wonder how many other buyers got a surprise when they got around to collecting their vehicle and doing the final paperwork.  

Nothing to do with Toyota price protecting existing orders.

For vehicle tax extra payment is determined by the list price when the car is first registered. The only things to blame are the vehicle tax system, and the buyer for not realising how the vehicle tax system works.

[Roger_N]

51 minutes ago, Adaml99 said:

Car should have arrived at the dealers today but it wasn’t on the trailer. Think it’s got lost somewhere, but this the least of my problems…

My main issue is that when I ordered the vehicle the list price was £36K back in October, it’s now £41K so now have to pay this extra £350 a year for 5 years which works out at £1775 over 5 years.

this doesn’t sound fair to me, I bought this vehicle having deliberately decided to keep the list price well below £40K. Should I complain to Toyota about this? Shouldn’t they honour existing orders and price protect? 

I wonder how many other buyers got a surprise when they got around to collecting their vehicle and doing the final paperwork.  

I got caught in the same price rise tax trap but it’s not Toyotas fault, they haven’t increased your price they have honored that but the dealer has to report the list price when they register the car and if that’s over 40K then the tax is applied. I was asked to sign a document to accept this but given the current situation with new cars they would not care if you refused, in fact they would make more money.

As far as your car not arriving, I had the same message when I went to drop the car I was exchanging off but was told they had one that had just been delivered for someone else if I wanted to see it (it was the then new out 2022 model), I had a quick look around and as I was leaving the new car area I happened to look across and saw a new one in the colour I had ordered and would you credit it, it was mine, so don’t be surprised if it suddenly arrives.  

[Roger_N]

49 minutes ago, Vainona70 said:

Toyota are honouring the order price & any finance deals at that time. They are subject to inflated costs, including the huge increase in shipping costs. Yes you're not the only one (I'm in the same situation) & yes it's not fair, but Toyota can't influence the tax regime in place.

If you look at the difference in price below you can see it’s not just incurred costs that has caused the price rise.

List Prices

Excel AWDI Metallic paint 1^st Oct 2021 £38,105.00      NOW £42,585.00

Dynamic AWDI PHEV metallic paint 1^st Oct 2021  £42,595.00      NOW  £43,985.00

[Vainona70]

21 minutes ago, Roger_N said:

 If you look at the difference in price below you can see it’s not just incurred costs that has caused the price rise.

List Prices

Excel AWDI Metallic paint 1^st Oct 2021 £38,105.00      NOW £42,585.00

Dynamic AWDI PHEV metallic paint 1^st Oct 2021  £42,595.00      NOW  £43,985.00

And your point is?

Granted, Toyota maybe trying to push the sales of PHEVs over HEVs to achieve manufacturer emissions targets (or so they can sell more large pickups in the USA).

[Yugguy1970]

Blimey.  Don't fancy paying stupid level road tax on my next car, might drop down to a Corolla Cross.

Seems massively unfair that we are penalised for excessive delivery times

[Roger_N]

9 minutes ago, Vainona70 said:

And your point is?

Granted, Toyota maybe trying to push the sales of PHEVs over HEVs to achieve manufacturer emissions targets (or so they can sell more large pickups in the USA).

 

1 hour ago, Vainona70 said:

They are subject to inflated costs, including the huge increase in shipping costs.

The above is what I was referring to, It point out it's not just increased costs.

[Hayzee]

At the end of the day it costs an extra £355 per year (£30/Month) Road Tax due to my PHEV being over £40K list price. It's certainly not enough of a premium, in the context of the total costs of acquisition and operation, to put me off owning it.

[Adaml99]

I understand it’s not Toyotas fault because they have no control over vehicle tax prices, but they should have at least warned me it was a possibility, or perhaps told me when it went over the £40K threshold so I could have considered cancelling my order.

I know I’m posting this on a Toyota owners forum so there might be a bit of bias, but are these cars really worthy of being in the premium / luxury car bracket?

Reading all the car reviews for the RAV4 at the time of ordering, the general consensus seems to be that they were great cars but massively overpriced, but surely now it’s gone a bit too far when some buyers are potentially paying £7K~ (inc lux tax) more than what they would if they were if they ordered a few months ago. 
 

[TonyHSD]

All Toyota cars prices are up last two weeks. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

43 minutes ago, Adaml99 said:

I understand it’s not Toyotas fault because they have no control over vehicle tax prices, but they should have at least warned me it was a possibility, or perhaps told me when it went over the £40K threshold so I could have considered cancelling my order.
I know I’m posting this on a Toyota owners forum so there might be a bit of bias, but are these cars really worthy of being in the premium / luxury car bracket?

Reading all the car reviews for the RAV4 at the time of ordering, the general consensus seems to be that they were great cars but massively overpriced, but surely now it’s gone a bit too far when some buyers are potentially paying £7K~ (inc lux tax) more than what they would if they were if they ordered a few months ago. 

Presumably you would have ordered the car from a dealer, rather than Toyota. Did you actually say to your dealer at the time the order was placed, that you wanted to be notified if the list price increased and the car was then subject to the extra vehicle tax payments? If not, how would they know? Very few people are clairvoyant.

At the time of ordering if you felt the car was over-priced, why order it? Other manufacturers have also increased prices, and other vehicles in the Rav's market sector could now be subject to the extra payments. That's life.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to ensure you can afford what you've ordered - no-one else - and this includes items such as vehicle tax (including the extra payments if the vehicle should the car become subject to these), servicing, etc.

Unfortunately it seems to be all too common nowadays for people's mistakes to be someone else's, or anybody else's, fault.

[Rigsby]

6 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Presumably you would have ordered the car from a dealer, rather than Toyota. Did you actually say to your dealer at the time the order was placed, that you wanted to be notified if the list price increased and the car was then subject to the extra vehicle tax payments? If not, how would they know? Very few people are clairvoyant.

At the time of ordering if you felt the car was over-priced, why order it? Other manufacturers have also increased prices, and other vehicles in the Rav's market sector could now be subject to the extra payments. That's life.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to ensure you can afford what you've ordered - no-one else - and this includes items such as vehicle tax (including the extra payments if the vehicle should the car become subject to these), servicing, etc.

Unfortunately it seems to be all too common nowadays for people's mistakes to be someone else's, or anybody else's, fault.

It’s not about people being “clairvoyant” I’ve worked in sales all of my life for a number of companies, most recently before I retired as a National sales manager who supplied building materials to National Developers and their sub-contractors.

We would give our “customers” as much notice as possible of a pending price increase, no need for crystal balls or the like, just good customer relations and business etiquette.

Nobody particularly likes a price increase but most customers appreciate as much notice as possible.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

16 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

We would give our “customers” as much notice as possible of a pending price increase, no need for crystal balls or the like, just good customer relations and business etiquette.

The order would have been price protected by Toyota, so the price increase wouldn't have affected the order as such.

The issue is re the vehicle tax extra payments, and unless the dealer had been asked to inform the customer of a likely change in vehicle tax, they wouldn't particularly have raised a query with the customer.

[Flatcoat]

Just about all cars are going up in price, some significantly. And if not yet they soon will. 

[Lawnmowerman]

At our around £40k I struggle to see any 'Luxury' cars - just some decent cars and some not so decent. 

Poverty spec. Audi Q5 Plug in starts at £53,640 - would that be luxury?

[forkingabout]

25 minutes ago, Lawnmowerman said:

At our around £40k I struggle to see any 'Luxury' cars - just some decent cars and some not so decent. 

Poverty spec. Audi Q5 Plug in starts at £53,640 - would that be luxury?

No but it has that " special Badge " that a lot of people seem to want as they see it as some kind of status symbol ( more fool them ) 

[Adaml99]

7 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Presumably you would have ordered the car from a dealer, rather than Toyota. Did you actually say to your dealer at the time the order was placed, that you wanted to be notified if the list price increased and the car was then subject to the extra vehicle tax payments? If not, how would they know? Very few people are clairvoyant.

At the time of ordering if you felt the car was over-priced, why order it? Other manufacturers have also increased prices, and other vehicles in the Rav's market sector could now be subject to the extra payments. That's life.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to ensure you can afford what you've ordered - no-one else - and this includes items such as vehicle tax (including the extra payments if the vehicle should the car become subject to these), servicing, etc.

Unfortunately it seems to be all too common nowadays for people's mistakes to be someone else's, or anybody else's, fault.

No I didn’t say to the dealer to notify me if the list price exceed £40K, and nor should I expect to.

Surely it’s on the seller to keep the customer informed if there’s a price increase regardless of whether I asked them to.

How can you argue that it’s reasonable to sell a product to someone to then turnaround on the day the customer collects the product, that it’s going to cost them £1750 more with no prior warning? I’m sure many other buyers before me have been caught out by this so Toyota must be fully aware of the dissatisfaction it causes.

No one likes surprises such as these regardless of how good your finances are, most normal people would raise some resentment being charged an extra £1750 out of the blue.

And on your point about not being able to afford it - This isn’t about affordability, and I don’t like blaming people either. But there should be some accountability for these type of mistakes or oversights because otherwise nothing improves. Toyota should have been more proactive on this occasion in my opinion.

[FROSTYBALLS]

34 minutes ago, Adaml99 said:

No I didn’t say to the dealer to notify me if the list price exceed £40K, and nor should I expect to.

Surely it’s on the seller to keep the customer informed if there’s a price increase regardless of whether I asked them to.

How can you argue that it’s reasonable to sell a product to someone to then turnaround on the day the customer collects the product, that it’s going to cost them £1750 more with no prior warning? I’m sure many other buyers before me have been caught out by this so Toyota must be fully aware of the dissatisfaction it causes.

No one likes surprises such as these regardless of how good your finances are, most normal people would raise some resentment being charged an extra £1750 out of the blue.

And on your point about not being able to afford it - This isn’t about affordability, and I don’t like blaming people either. But there should be some accountability for these type of mistakes or oversights because otherwise nothing improves. Toyota should have been more proactive on this occasion in my opinion.

The extra cost is purely due to vehicle tax  - nothing to do with your order, which will be price protected.

Also the vehicle tax extra payments don't come due until year 2 of ownership, so won't be effective on the day the car is collected.

The first year of vehicle tax is based on emissions, with the second and subsequent years being a flat rate. The extra payments go from year 2, and continue for a period of five years.

Just shows that you haven't looked at the  vehicle tax system properly.

As regards Toyota being aware of the vehicle tax system and the possibility of cars becoming eligible for the extra vehicle tax payments,  other manufacturers are in the same boat. As the vehicle tax payment rates are available online, there was nothing stopping you making yourself aware of how the system works and the possibility that you may incur the extra payments. It isn't down to Toyota, or any other manufacturer, to categorically state what the vehicle tax position will be months after an order has been placed.

[ernieb]

Buyer beware......

[Mike2222]

7 hours ago, Adaml99 said:

How can you argue that it’s reasonable to sell a product to someone to then turnaround on the day the customer collects the product, that it’s going to cost them £1750 more with no prior warning?

Because that has nothing to do with the transaction that they are involved in at that time. In the same way that it is not their responsibility to tell you if inflation has lead to an increase in the service costs for future years. The only reason this becomes a major talking point (repeatedly on this forum) is that its a significant sum of money, however it has nothing to do with the dealer or Toyota directly. 

 

An individual is always responsible for understanding their own tax obligations, regardless of whether it is income, cgt, or ved etc etc etc. For example, if your accountant is having a midlife crisis and makes an **** of your income tax filing and you happen to get audited - you pay the fine/interest on overdue taxes, not them, regardless of whether you understood/were aware of the mistake. This is the way tax law works in the UK. 

 

I often think @FROSTYBALLS could be a bit more diplomatic in phrasing when replying to people expressing disappointment at the additional costs, but he's accurate (albeit blunt). Tho, I guess he's seen many more posts/threads about ppl complaining about what it fundamentally a basic aspect of economics (inflation + tax statutes) than I have, and I'm getting pretty bored with it already.

 

Speak to your MP if you want to complain about tax law.... Good luck.... 

[Flatcoat]

8 hours ago, Adaml99 said:

No I didn’t say to the dealer to notify me if the list price exceed £40K, and nor should I expect to.

Surely it’s on the seller to keep the customer informed if there’s a price increase regardless of whether I asked them to.

How can you argue that it’s reasonable to sell a product to someone to then turnaround on the day the customer collects the product, that it’s going to cost them £1750 more with no prior warning? I’m sure many other buyers before me have been caught out by this so Toyota must be fully aware of the dissatisfaction it causes.

No one likes surprises such as these regardless of how good your finances are, most normal people would raise some resentment being charged an extra £1750 out of the blue.

And on your point about not being able to afford it - This isn’t about affordability, and I don’t like blaming people either. But there should be some accountability for these type of mistakes or oversights because otherwise nothing improves. Toyota should have been more proactive on this occasion in my opinion.

It is very simple, If you are so unhappy with Toyota then cancel your order and buy a Ford or whatever. And when Ford or whoever pay the extra RFL for you I will beleive in Santa Claus and see flying pigs. 

[Roger_N]

9 hours ago, Adaml99 said:

No one likes surprises such as these regardless of how good your finances are, most normal people would raise some resentment being charged an extra £1750 out of the blue.

Adam

Think of it this way, you will not pay the extra tax on the first year, the Rav4 secondhand market is strong and the lead times are long and in recent times getting longer, in fact my local dealer is selling one to two year old Rav4's at the same price they were when new, so if this continues you could move it on before you need to pay the extra tax, so get the car see if you think it is worth the extra tax and if not move it on, you will have paid less that the current new price, so shouldn't loose out to much if at all.