Toyota Yaris 1.3 (2009) Cam followers tapping on cold start.

[Oscarford]

My 1.3 Yaris has started making a tapping noise upon starting up from cold and it sounds like the cam followers, does anyone know if they are hydraulic lifters ?

I bought it off an elderly gentleman a couple of years ago with very low mileage and its only got 16000 miles on it now, once warmed up its quiet again just seems strange at such low mileage, especially when I've seen them with 150.0000 miles on the same cams & followers. It started a couple of months ago & I've changed the oil & filter even though it looked very clean, but hasn't made any difference, has anyone had the same problem ?

[Mooly]

I don't know if this might be relevant:

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/157866-tappets/

Quote

Also the 1.3 Yaris can suffer from a metallic chattering noise when the engine is under load espescially when cold, this is actually caused by the Aux belt and a modified belt part # 99366-K1770 is fitted with a new tension of 6.5-7.5mm at 98N.

Given the age of the car and the very low mileage it is also important that oil changes have been done regularly during all its years. 

[Oscarford]

Hi Mooly thankyou for replying & sending me the link, I don't know what oil changes it had from new but I have got a service bill given to me with the car showing that it had an oil change at 13,000 miles, as for the followers I'm getting mixed information from mechanics some saying there hydraulic some say not but many thanks for the info.

[flash22]

On an 09 it should be a 1NR-FE

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/13-01-01_faq_nr-engine_eng.htm#1NR-FE

13750-75020 valve adjuster

it's a hydraulic lifter

 

if you haven't already, give it a flush and oil change with  the correct oil (0w20 or 5w30) and new filter, with such low miles its more than likely on the old SC20HR11 plugs too - now replaced by the SC16HR11 plugs

i wonder if the cabin filter has ever been out of the car

i would also flush the brake fluid and coolant too

 

[Stivino]

Some hydraulic lifters can rattle a little on cold start up.  It should only last a second and shouldn't do any damage. 

[bathtub tom]

10 minutes ago, flash22 said:

On an 09 it should be a 1NR-FE

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/13-01-01_faq_nr-engine_eng.htm#1NR-FE

13750-75020 valve adjuster

it's a hydraulic lifter

 

if you haven't already, give it a flush and oil change with  the correct oil (0w20 or 5w30) and new filter, with such low miles its more than likely on the old SC20HR11 plugs too - now replaced by the SC16HR11 plugs

i wonder if the cabin filter has ever been out of the car

i would also flush the brake fluid and coolant too

 

Wot he sed, plus do you know what oil the old boy put in it? It may have been something like a 20W-50 which would be quite unsuitable and may cause the tapping you're experiencing. I'd suggest you give it a good long run before you take out and flush the system.

[Cyker]

My 1NR-FE-equipped Mk2 was always very tappity; I just put it down to the 0w20 oil tbh...

 

[TonyHSD]

Engine flush , new oil 0w20 and the rest of the service advice above its a good idea. After all done and if you still have some noise you can try various engine oil additive to help reduce the valve train noises. Wynns has a wide selection and their stuff is one of the best. 👍

[Oscarford]

Hi Bob, the link you have sent is great it gives me a lot of information about the engine "really helpful" and I will look into the flush you have suggested, thankyou for taking the time to reply.

 

Steven, thankyou for your input, the tapping seems to last for about 3-4 minutes then quietens down till its normal again then as long as the engine remains warm it remains quiet 👍.

[Oscarford]

Hi Bob, I don't unfortunately know what oil the old chap used but I would guess he took it to the garage/dealership as he had it from new & I do understand your concern about engine flush I will try your suggestion first, good advice many thanks.

 

Tony, thankyou for your advice I will try the simplest remedies first and the Wynns products as I progress with a solution to the problem, thankyou for taking the time to reply.

[TonyHSD]

31 minutes ago, Oscarford said:

Hi Bob, I don't unfortunately know what oil the old chap used but I would guess he took it to the garage/dealership as he had it from new & I do understand your concern about engine flush I will try your suggestion first, good advice many thanks.

 

Tony, thankyou for your advice I will try the simplest remedies first and the Wynns products as I progress with a solution to the problem, thankyou for taking the time to reply.

You are welcome. I can suggest if you do experiments with oil additives you may want to try in the old oil first and do one thing at a time and drive at least 200-300 miles between any additional work to allow some time for the additives to work to see if there are any effects. Valve train noise can be as a result of thinner than what needs to be for the engine oil or thicker one. If the oil  is thinner or has lost some of its viscosity you can use oil friction modifier   Like this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255126856233?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=pipn4v9hRni&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=p34UK1z2T4m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

If the oil is thicker or it’s wrong grade and viscosity or if the hydraulic lifters are stuck which happens on cars with low mileage and very easily driven then the correct oil additive to use is this one : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262879024616?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=734sWtTNTq2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=p34UK1z2T4m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

You can perhaps try this one first, follow instructions and add to the oil , drive the car for 200 miles and also it will be a good idea to take the car for a motorway drive at higher rpm,3000 for 15-20min continuous run. If it doesn’t fix the issue or if the noise become even worse then you can add the friction modifier and if it helps then means the oil inside is too thin for your engine. If no any positive effects after these tries best to use engine flush stp red bottle is very good stuff and change the oil and filter to the specs by the manufacturer. Drive the car more and it may fix itself. 👍

[Oscarford]

Hi Tony, just noticed your update reply, thankyou for the links you have sent they're very interesting and I really appreciate the time you have given replying back to me and I'm sure any other Toyota Owner club member will find your replies helpful. 

[Mooly]

12 hours ago, Oscarford said:

Hi Mooly thankyou for replying & sending me the link, I don't know what oil changes it had from new but I have got a service bill given to me with the car showing that it had an oil change at 13,000 miles,

It really should have had an oil change every years even though the mileage is so low. If that were skipped and extended to say every to 2 years it would almost certainly be OK but going beyond that is asking for trouble.

Also I think a lot of the replies are assuming this is the 1.33L engine and not the earlier 1.3L You need to be sure which it is.

Was 0W20 oil actually used in the 1.3L ? It is a very thin oil.

[Cyker]

That's true actually, 2009 was the crossover year from the 1.3 to the 1.33 so I suppose it's possible an early on could still have the 2NZ-FE 1.3 rather than the 1NR-FE 1.33!

I think the older engine was speced for 5w30 rather the 0w20 in the newer one so it would make a difference!

Edited May 28, 2022 by Cyker
Oops got my 1NZ and 2NZ mixed up!

[Oscarford]

15 hours ago, Oscarford said:

Hi Mooly thankyou for replying & sending me the link, I don't know what oil changes it had from new but I have got a service bill given to me with the car showing that it had an oil change at 13,000 miles, as for the followers I'm getting mixed information from mechanics some saying there hydraulic some say not but many thanks for the info.

Good morning Mooly, the engine is a 13.29 and looking at the only bills I have the oil used at 13.000 miles was fully synthetic 5w 30.

I've also changed the oil to the same (5w30 fully synthetic with a genuine Toyota oil filter👍.

[flash22]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

That's true actually, 2009 was the crossover year from the 1.3 to the 1.33 so I suppose it's possible an early on could still have the 2NZ-FE 1.3 rather than the 1NR-FE 1.33!

I think the older engine was speced for 5w30 rather the 0w20 in the newer one so it would make a difference!

1SZ-FE is the early 1.3 cast iron boat anchor 99 - late 07/08

1NR-FE is the 1.33 late 08 to early 2017

2NR-FKE is the 1.5 derived from the 1.33 2017 - late 2020 2nd facelift xp130 (non-hybrid)

 

2NZ-FE was only in the JAP built mk1 yaris, but was used in Asia and the US up to late 2019

 

[Mooly]

3 hours ago, Oscarford said:

Good morning Mooly, the engine is a 13.29 and looking at the only bills I have the oil used at 13.000 miles was fully synthetic 5w 30.

I've also changed the oil to the same (5w30 fully synthetic with a genuine Toyota oil filter

5w30 would be fine for both engines so no worry there. What is an unknown is whether or not it has had more than just one oil change from new. If it has gone a long while without then its possible sludge and deposits have formed and then loosened with more frequent use can that can block oilways and cause issues. Hopefully that is not the case though.

 

And not confuse things but just an observation...

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

My 1NR-FE-equipped Mk2 was always very tappity; I just put it down to the 0w20 oil tbh...

I've found the 1.33L on my Auris is much smoother (an indefinable something) for running on 10w40 for the last couple of years.  

[Oscarford]

Hi Mooly, Cyker & Bob also Flash

I think the engine is the 1NR-FE 1.33, I will stick with 5w 30 synthetic oil for now and I just hope that sludge deposits haven't blocked any oilways I may end up having to do an oil flush if nothing works as I don't know for sure how long it was left without an oil change but I do have paperwork showing oil & filter at 13,000 miles.