EU trying to ban PHEV’s from 2025….

[philip42h]

58 minutes ago, ernieb said:

They do not say it's AWD so if it's only 2WD then that may not suit you??

They do say "We also know it will be a dual-motor powertrain" which implies drive to both axles to me ... 😉

[ernieb]

12 minutes ago, philip42h said:

They do say "We also know it will be a dual-motor powertrain" which implies drive to both axles to me ... 😉

Missed that Philip good spot. Just hope it’s not like the b4ZX where they often quote the mpg for the 2WD then talk about the AWD. Sort of switch selling.

[philip42h]

To be fair, Geely have only given teasers and will provide fuller specs nearer the release date(s).

What I have seen quoted from Geely is that the 22/23 Polestar 3 will sit in the €75k sector; the 23/24 Polestar 4 will sit in the €55k sector. 

[Stopeter44]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:15 AM, Cyker said:

Now, imagine if the new Corolla and Yaris drivetrains were the flagship EVs back then - I reckon nearly everyone would be driving an EV now; They both virtually blow normal ICE out of the water in terms of responsiveness and genuine real world mpg; Truely they are have-your-cake-and-eat-it cars that stand on their own merits, and people see and know this - This is why they have been some of the fastest selling hybrids in the history of them!

I think that about sums up how I arrived at buying my Yaris IV. When Renault introduced the Zoe (in 2009 ?), I thought "That's the definitive solution", some friends already had a Prius (a MK II, I think) and I thought "Hybrid = too complicated". Truth is, I was very ignorant of Toyotas hybrid solution and how it worked at the time, plus home charging was not possible for me back then.

At the time I had a Clio III 1.5 Dci, and I was easily getting 4,5-5l/100 km, and filling up every 1000 km (+/-). Then, I thought diesel was the best choice for my usage, that is a daily 75 km round trip commute (I can comfortably get 600 km from a 2/3 fill up on the Yaris).

It took me 13 years to "get" the hybrid tech, and I am no longer 100% convinced that BEV is the future, or the best choice for right now. I only need one car, because if I needed two, I might be tempted by an ICE, for the highway, and a BEV, for short journeys. As it is the MyT app tells me, that I get 65% EV time and 50%, at least EV distance. Tellingly, the more I use the Yaris for short trips, the higher the percentage of EV distance I get, too.

[philip42h]

48 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

It took me 13 years to "get" the hybrid tech, and I am no longer 100% convinced that BEV is the future, or the best choice for right now. I only need one car, because if I needed two, I might be tempted by an ICE, for the highway, and a BEV, for short journeys.

I'm totally convinced that Toyota's hybrid technology is the technology for this decade - so much so that we have a pair of them ... decent economy and unlimited range.

I'm pretty convinced that the BEV will prove to be the technology for the next decade - but I've still got a few years to make up / change my mind. I don't see an alternative technology waiting in the wings (OK, fuel-cell may have a part to play).

But as you say, I am very tempted by having a hybrid for long journeys and a BEV for short journeys. And, if / when the wife and I get a little better at "sharing", that's probably the way we will go - as it is we still do 'long' journeys independently and concurrently so two hybrids are still better!

The PHEV is the obvious halfway house - you can charge it up and use it as a BEV for local journeys and revert to hybrid mode for longer journeys. But it is a compromise since you are always lugging around something (either an outsize Battery or a sleeping engine) that you don't currently need. In a RAV4 that isn't too much of an issue - the car is big enough and heavy enough anyway - but it might be a step too far to develop a Yaris PHEV.

I would like to see a Corolla Cross PHEV but there's no sign of such on the current horizon that I am aware of ...

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, ernieb said:

They do not say it's AWD so if it's only 2WD then that may not suit you??

Only comes as a dual motor as far as I've read so far.

[Nick72]

16 hours ago, ernieb said:

Missed that Philip good spot. Just hope it’s not like the b4ZX where they often quote the mpg for the 2WD then talk about the AWD. Sort of switch selling.

Range on the Polestar 2 has been going up with OTA SW updates since launch so this could be a good sign.

[Cyker]

I always worry about that - The Battery isn't magically getting more capacity so where is that extra range coming from?

The cutting of safety margins is where... I hope they don't push too far and end up in the same situation as Hyundai and Chevy are...

 

[philip42h]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I always worry about that - The battery isn't magically getting more capacity so where is that extra range coming from?

Cutting back a bit on overall performance and a bit of smarter optimisation in terms of regenerative braking etc.. - better use of the capacity that it has.

[ernieb]

Most manufactures hold a reserve capacity that does not get used, I think Toyota use this feature to ensure the Battery longevity and Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Its possible that Polestar, based on routine maintenance measurements have concluded that the Battery is not deteriorating at the rate they had predicted?

[Nick72]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

I always worry about that - The battery isn't magically getting more capacity so where is that extra range coming from?

The cutting of safety margins is where... I hope they don't push too far and end up in the same situation as Hyundai and Chevy are...

 

Engineering reserve factors but not for safety, for warrantee returns. They put a buffer in same as Tesla did to avoid risking wear n tear on the Battery and motors. As data is gathered through use across the fleet they can assess how conservative or not they were then gradually bexosndvthe envelope. Exactly the same process in aircraft development. You incrementally expand the flight envelope as you gather more data.

Nothing safety related is being traded off.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, ernieb said:

Most manufactures hold a reserve capacity that does not get used, I think Toyota use this feature to ensure the battery longevity and battery capacity over the warranty period.

Its possible that Polestar, based on routine maintenance measurements have concluded that the battery is not deteriorating at the rate they had predicted?

Spot on