Yaris Cross AWD order slots

[anchorman]

I’m reliably informed that the AWD version can no longer be ordered.  Probably down to supply chain issues but there are no plans to reintroduce it as yet.  

[Devon Aygo]

Not discontinued but all the order slots are taken and with a MY23 due soon and no confirmation of the new line up yet no further orders can be taken for Dynamic, Premier Edition, what we do know is:

• Premiere edition and Dynamic are gone with no new orders, MY23 Replacement model is TBC
• Orders from 26th for Icon, Design & Excel will be MY23 models but specs are yet to be confirmed prices will not be protected for specification uplift.
• Any orders for JBL, City pack, Safety pack or Pano roof will add significant delay
• As of 27th there are 6000 uncovered UK orders for Cross current orders will be for November production December delivery excl JBL, City pack, Safety pack or Pano roof

[atkiman]

Order a dumper from our place today , you wont see it till half way through 2023, and getting parts in is so inconsistent, we have to slave loads of stuff to get them off the line, then a certain part comes in and it's manic getting them reworked and delivered. Be the same for toyota i suppose ,slim the options down to improve delivery times.

got to say my yc excel is only fwd, and its a cracker, 

[FROSTYBALLS]

16 minutes ago, atkiman said:

slim the options down to improve delivery times.

Which is what other manufacturers are doing - eg BMW Mini dropping manual gearboxes, etc.

[Liam57]

We can't make enough silicon wafers for the microchips just now.Orders are so mental we are turning smaller customers away.No end in sight.

[Cyker]

No big loss, it was pointless anyway. If they'd used e.g. the 4NM rear motor as used in the RAV4 then it'd be useful, but the 1MM can barely even move the car on its own so it's a lot of extra mass for almost no benefit!

[anchorman]

6 hours ago, Cyker said:

No big loss, it was pointless anyway. If they'd used e.g. the 4NM rear motor as used in the RAV4 then it'd be useful, but the 1MM can barely even move the car on its own so it's a lot of extra mass for almost no benefit!

It’s 52Nm and it makes a big difference to the dynamics of the car.  It also makes an equally big difference to it’s traction in snow (better still with the right tyres) The AWD also gets multi link rear suspension which further enhances the dynamics especially when loaded.  The rear motor compensates the additional weight of the Cross over the standard Yaris.  It’s worth it and is a loss if you have the right need for it.   My neighbour had Conti Cross Climates fitted to her AWD yesterday making it very capable in poor weather.  

[Cyker]

I've not driven one so am just speculating, but I just can't imagine a 5HP motor making any appreciable difference to the car - It's barely powerful enough to off-set the added weight and, from what I've read, doesn't even operate past single-digit speeds, although it does apparently contribute to regen.

In the tests I've seen, it couldn't even move the car when the front wheels were on rollers and the rears were on tarmac, so I wasn't very impressed.

Those Cross Climates would make far more improvement to the grip than the 1MM possibly could!

 

 

[IT Troll]

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

In the tests I've seen, it couldn't even move the car when the front wheels were on rollers and the rears were on tarmac, so I wasn't very impressed.

Do you have any links to those? I’ve struggled to find any decent tests of the AWD model. I found one video in which the guy got both a front and rear wheel spinning off the ground and it wouldn’t move until he disabled traction control. I found another with a guy doing doing circles in snow and ice. Then another in which a FWD model was tested on quite a tough off road course. Would have been good if they did the same in an AWD model. None of the videos are in English though.

[Cyker]

Hmm, annoyingly I can't find it any more - When I stumbled across it before I was actually looking for tests on the non-Cross Yaris eAWD, but now there're a bazillion yaris cross reviews polluting the search results!

It was a test channel in this sort of vein

but with a Yaris Cross EFour AWD.

But generally I didn't see that much difference between the FWD and AWD ones for traction in the off-road tests I'd seen - The tyres used made *far* more difference, hence my conclusion it isn't worth it.

 

[IT Troll]

Yeah, I found that Yaris one too. But couldn’t find one for the Cross. As you said, a 5HP motor isn’t going to do a great deal. I think the idea is just to do enough to nudge the front wheels into gaining more traction. It would be nice to see an A/B comparison on the same assault course.

[TonyHSD]

Not sure if Toyota has a good awd hybrid to date. Perhaps the electric bz4x might be the first real deal with proper awd. What proper awd means is simply a system that can do 50/50 torque between front and rear axle or 25 at each wheel. The idea of having a second or more differentials is to get grip and to have torque enough to move the car when one or more wheels loose grip. On that particular case the current awd hybrids are useless in situations when the system needs to move the car while one wheel looses grip. There are many videos to show that. Toyota traction control works great but the e motor is simply not powerful enough to propel the car. In real world scenarios not capable awd system can be more of a burden than help especially when going off and soft road. Because when going over obstacles you need to use a momentum to keep two front and rear diff happy while if with fwd only you need to think only one diff. Yaris Cross fwd will go exactly where the awd one will do. 👍

[Cyker]

When I was more naive about EVs I just assumed they'd all have 4 motors to drive each wheel so you could eliminate the weight of all those transaxels and diffs and have all sorts of tricks like torque vectoring.

So far the only car I know of that had such a design is that insane Mercedes SLS AMG that was on Top Gear...

[TonyHSD]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

When I was more naive about EVs I just assumed they'd all have 4 motors to drive each wheel so you could eliminate the weight of all those transaxels and diffs and have all sorts of tricks like torque vectoring.

So far the only car I know of that had such a design is that insane Mercedes SLS AMG that was on Top Gear...

Rivian has it, and perhaps it’s the best car in the world currently. I am following Munro live on YouTube and they are showing every day new video about it. 

 

[TonyHSD]

And here is the video that shows what I had tried to explain in my earlier post. Nothing wrong to buy awd Yaris , however it is not the car that will take you to places although has the rugged look. It lacks real awd. 

Dacia duster or Mitsubishi asx are better. 

[Cyker]

Oooh neat, didn't know that! Assumed they were just using the boring old front and rear motor setup!

Sadly far too large to be practical for me, but I do like the engineering that's gone into them. Would make a fantastic vehicle for exploring the wilderness. And they've actually made use of the space that an EV should have. That camp kitchen option is so silly but very cool too  

The fact that they let Ewan and Charlie take two prototypes on Long Way Up was very ballsy of them, where other manufacturers chickened out!

Edit: Yeah, that's what I was saying in another thread about the AWD in the Yaris Cross and JDM Yaris being kinda pointless - It's a 5hp motor! What use is that?! Barely enough power to counteract its own weight!

Although... I wonder how hard it would be to swap it with the rear motor from the RAV4...  

[anchorman]

12 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

And here is the video that shows what I had tried to explain in my earlier post. Nothing wrong to buy awd Yaris , however it is not the car that will take you to places although has the rugged look. It lacks real awd. 

Dacia duster or Mitsubishi asx are better. 

Sorry Tony but this proves nothing to me.  Watching the power monitor during the snow section, he’s poking it to full power.  Expecting it to launch on a low friction surface is expecting it to defy physics.   In the off road section he seems fairly jubilant about what it achieved.  For that test to have any credence in what you’re trying to demonstrate you’d have to repeat it with a FWD Cross, not other brands.   You keep quoting 5hp but that means nothing until you put it through the diff gears which converts it to 52Nm - that’s compared to 59Nm from the front motor and 120Nm from the engine.  Now things start to look a bit different.  The FWD with its torsion bar rear suspension is highly unlikely to get over that off road section compared with the multi link suspension of the AWD.  I did 17 years testing vehicles under very controlled conditions and we weren’t allowed to take anything for granted.   The tyres do make a big difference to capabilities but the tyres in combination with the rear axle make a significant difference to the capabilities and the dynamics.   Repeat the whole snow and off road test with a FWD and the same tyres and then I’ll accept the results.   

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, anchorman said:

Sorry Tony but this proves nothing to me.  Watching the power monitor during the snow section, he’s poking it to full power.  Expecting it to launch on a low friction surface is expecting it to defy physics.   In the off road section he seems fairly jubilant about what it achieved.  For that test to have any credence in what you’re trying to demonstrate you’d have to repeat it with a FWD Cross, not other brands.   You keep quoting 5hp but that means nothing until you put it through the diff gears which converts it to 52Nm - that’s compared to 59Nm from the front motor and 120Nm from the engine.  Now things start to look a bit different.  The FWD with its torsion bar rear suspension is highly unlikely to get over that off road section compared with the multi link suspension of the AWD.  I did 17 years testing vehicles under very controlled conditions and we weren’t allowed to take anything for granted.   The tyres do make a big difference to capabilities but the tyres in combination with the rear axle make a significant difference to the capabilities and the dynamics.   Repeat the whole snow and off road test with a FWD and the same tyres and then I’ll accept the results.   

Hi Don , 

I respect your opinion.  
I only shared my one and it is not necessarily to be true. But to the best of my knowledge and believe these i-awd systems are of very little use if any at all, including rav4. The rear axle simply has not enough power to propel the car in most situations and especially when you relay on them as advance cars over 2wd equivalent. In real world scenarios most important factors for the car been more capable are 3: 

1. Power to the wheels 

2. Grip 

3. Ability to transfer enough  torque to each wheel independently 

Here is why older cars like Audi, Subaru and Mitsubishi been recorded going through bad road conditions , rough terrains or pulling heavy vehicles, all because of these factors above., although many of these cars has no electronically controlled torque distribution they have plenty of power and they just keep going as long as they have some grip. Yaris Cross awd is a very different awd system. , perhaps fine for the city speed bumps. Most people never need awd systems like this one but a good all season tyres on their 2wd cars. 👍 

[Cyker]

I just can't get over the 5hp thing... I guess if it's geared down then that would give it the torque to help it move the car, but it would top out of RPM very quickly so it would only be useful to help move the car at very low speeds.  I guess it might be helpful freeing the car if it's stuck, equivalent of a couple of humans pushing from the back, assuming the rear wheels had some traction.

That's a very narrow use-case tho' - I can't see it doing anything anywhere else, e.g. on road, so you'd be lugging that extra weight around for no reason almost the whole time.

If that's what it's designed for then fair enough - I just never considered e.g. the Yaris Cross to be a 'proper' off-road vehicle and can't envisage someone using it for that purpose, rather than getting e.g. a Corolla Cross or RAV4, which have much more powerful rear motors and can use them in normal driving.

Basically I just don't get it, but that's okay - I'm not the target audience as I just drive small 'city' (haha) cars. But then I don't get SUVs in general, and they're the biggest growth sector in vehicles so what do I know!  

[anchorman]

The motors are capable of very high revs so that won’t be a problem.   I agree they’re not true off roaders but not many people want the AWD to go off road.  It’s like standing on the pedals of a bike, once you get it going it doesn’t need much effort to keep it going.  Each to their own but I’m having one unless the doubters will give me their mobile numbers to come give me a shove when I get my FWD stuck in the snow.  Be warned, I often leave at 2am 😉

[Cyker]

Oh no I'm not saying don't get one - You do you, as they say!  

We all have reasons even if nobody else understands; People still don't understand why I bought a Yaris for Corolla money and then 'ruined it' by taking off the 17" rims and putting 15" steel rims on it  

 

[IT Troll]

9 hours ago, anchorman said:

In the off road section he seems fairly jubilant about what it achieved.

It does struggle in one section when he has two wheels off the ground whilst turning. I would say that it pushing the limit of what can be expected from this mild AWD. However, after that it does seem to perform well when the front wheels lose traction. He ends up giving it a double thumbs up. For unmade tracks and snow I'd rather have it than not, even if it only helps a little.

[IT Troll]

I’ve noticed that when pulling away in Normal mode, on the slightest of inclines, the AWD system will send power to all four wheels. It does this in dry conditions, with good grip and with a gentle pull away. I’m therefore wondering if it has a level sensor which triggers this.

[The_Ancient]

On 5/29/2022 at 3:09 PM, anchorman said:

I’m reliably informed that the AWD version can no longer be ordered.  Probably down to supply chain issues but there are no plans to reintroduce it as yet.  

This is probably true in the UK. On May 30th, I ordered an AWD Adventure in Bulgaria and there it comes with JBL and pano roof. Not sure what the city pack and safety pack are but I suspect these options are also included. When I first went to see the car in mid-May the salesperson told me the delivery date was in June 2023, but when I went to order the car and specified Adventure grade the delivery date changed to December 2022.

[anchorman]

11 hours ago, The_Ancient said:

This is probably true in the UK. On May 30th, I ordered an AWD Adventure in Bulgaria and there it comes with JBL and pano roof. Not sure what the city pack and safety pack are but I suspect these options are also included. When I first went to see the car in mid-May the salesperson told me the delivery date was in June 2023, but when I went to order the car and specified Adventure grade the delivery date changed to December 2022.

Yes, there could be regional variations.