Yaris MK4 15'' factory rims to 17'' Toyota Accessories

[pcred110]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone happen to know the reason why below Toyota Accessories 17'' rims cannot be fitted into a MK4 Yaris with 15'' alloy wheels from factory? It is mentioned in tech comments.

PW4570D005MG

Thank you

 

[Devon Aygo]

Its to do with steering angles, Yaris with lower sized 15 & 16 inch wheels have tighter turning circles because the smaller wheels can move further in the arches the bigger the wheel the less steering angle is allowed. Toyota control this by shortening the steering rack tie rods. If you fit larger wheels onto a car that came with factory 15/16 inch wheels you can foul the wheels against the bodywork.

Toyota fit a 3 different racks one for 15" wheels one for 16" wheels & one for 17/18" wheels 

[Cyker]

That's good info, was unaware of that!

Good thing I was going from 17" to 15" then!!!

Surprising they'd make 3 different racks tho', seems like an excessive expense!

[Stopeter44]

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

Surprising they'd make 3 different racks tho', seems like an excessive expense!

hardly important when there is so much spec variation between markets, methinks.

[pcred110]

7 hours ago, Devon Aygo said:

Its to do with steering angles, Yaris with lower sized 15 & 16 inch wheels have tighter turning circles because the smaller wheels can move further in the arches the bigger the wheel the less steering angle is allowed. Toyota control this by shortening the steering rack tie rods. If you fit larger wheels onto a car that came with factory 15/16 inch wheels you can foul the wheels against the bodywork.

Toyota fit a 3 different racks one for 15" wheels one for 16" wheels & one for 17/18" wheels 

Thank you very much Cyker for the information provided.

[pcred110]

2 hours ago, pcred110 said:

Thank you very much Cyker for the information provided.

@Devon Aygo apologies for the error 🙂

Do you thing it is worth to change the tie rods if possible? 

Thank you

[flash22]

Wheel size and steering racks have nothing to do with each other TBH as the hub face is on the same plane throughout the suspension travel, the reason the steering rack will be different is purely the ratio maybe a change in end stops, if the hubs are in a fixed location the distance will be the same between point A and B, 15-18" wheels will have the same rolling radius +/- 10%

the larger the rim, the wider it is* you counter this by changing the ET aka offset

all tie rods will do is adjust the toe in/out the centre line of the hub is in the same place

 

unless you have smooth roads and no traffic-calming measures, 17" wheels will give a very harsh ride plus the tyres are not cheap

 

[flash22]

A quick google calc, click to enlarge - standard size wheel 15 and 17  et. 45 and 50 if you go to a 6.5J 38-42 offset the inset is the same with a 9-12mm more arch poke

[pcred110]

17 minutes ago, flash22 said:

A quick google calc, click to enlarge - standard size wheel 15 and 17  et. 45 and 50 if you go to a 6.5J 38-42 offset the inset is the same with a 9-12mm more arch poke

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. So I assume that the inset difference is the reason why they do not fit the 17'' rims onto the specific vehicles, although I still fail to understand the impact of this modification.  

[flash22]

At full lock, the tire may contact the wheel well liner or "scrub" the tires edge

[TonyHSD]

The difference in steering racks comes from the pinion gear ratio, the narrower tyres require less power assistance vs wider tyres. If you buy and fit alloys by the specs they will fit when you go from smaller to bigger size although you need to be careful when driving and get use to the steering and handling., the car will feel very different. When going from larger size to smaller it is important to check what minimum size your brake callipers will allow to fit, for example top spec Corolla/Auris from 18”/17” can only go down to 16” as these cars has larger brake discs on the front in comparison with lower specs cars. Here two sides that can help you double check before changing wheel sizes. 
https://www.willtheyfit.com

https://www.wheel-size.com

i will not recommend to you going up to 17” wheels on Yaris , max 16” which I think is the best size for this car. Just buy original Toyota wheels exact spec and fit, put a good tyres. 

[Stopeter44]

19 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

i will not recommend to you going up to 17” wheels on Yaris , max 16” which I think is the best size for this car. Just buy original Toyota wheels exact spec and fit, put a good tyres. 

Exactly why I chose the Design (French market spec. with 16" rims), comfier ride, etc.

[Cyker]

Yea, if you could have had a HUD with the smaller-wheel specs I would have gotten one of them, but sadly it was only available on the higher spec (And apparently not at all now on the newer runs!  )

But I always planned to swap to 15's when I saw how much the tyres cost! It was just a bonus that the ride quality was improved (And the mpg too - Narrower tyres and smaller rims usually give better mpg;)

[Stopeter44]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yea, if you could have had a HUD with the smaller-wheel specs I would have gotten one of them,

Yes, me too. but 2500-3000 € extra just for that, and all the bother of undoing the 17" rims and the definitely not black headliner. 

[Pumatron]

Just my opinion but the 17inch wheels are not worth the trade off for ride comfort.

I went in Magpie mode because the wheels are so shiny, didn’t really contemplate the ride being so harsh at the time of order. 

[TonyHSD]

There is one more thing about these trend of having low profile tyres fitted to  a large alloy wheels, kerb damage. That is unavoidable no matter how good driver you are and first it’s expensive to fix, secondly can leave you stranded too. Add the potholes and the general poor road conditions in UK and all Toyota models above Design spec are simply trouble waiting to happen. Smaller wheels does not make the car handle bad in turns at all. I could not be happier I switched down to 16” from original 17” wheels on my Auris, the car drives better than new., only asking myself why I didn’t do that earlier?! 🛞👌

[Kental]

Remember on UK spec Yaris (not sure about rest of Europe), not only do you get bigger wheels on Excel / Dynamic / First Ed / GR Sport, you also get sports suspension so really a double hit.

[Cyker]

Yeah, I'm far happier on the 15's than I was on the 17's.

Everything is better - ride comfort, noise, economy, acceleration and braking, tyre prices, peace of mind (I kerb them, I don't care!  )

Probably the best 'upgrade' I have done for the car! Best part is, since I went to 15" steels, it confused all the insurance companies, so they could only make a note of it but not charge me any more, as none of their systems have that as an option  

I think 16's are the sweet-spot tho - The ratio of everything just looks right with the 16's. On 17's the rims look a bit too big for the arches, and 15's look a bit too small. If I had 16's, probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of doing this, but the 17's were just a big nope (But I suspected and planned for that from before I bought the car...). I can't imagine the 18's...!

 

[Kental]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, I'm far happier on the 15's than I was on the 17's.

Everything is better - ride comfort, noise, economy, acceleration and braking, tyre prices, peace of mind (I kerb them, I don't care!  )

Probably the best 'upgrade' I have done for the car! Best part is, since I went to 15" steels, it confused all the insurance companies, so they could only make a note of it but not charge me any more, as none of their systems have that as an option  

I think 16's are the sweet-spot tho - The ratio of everything just looks right with the 16's. On 17's the rims look a bit too big for the arches, and 15's look a bit too small. If I had 16's, probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of doing this, but the 17's were just a big nope (But I suspected and planned for that from before I bought the car...). I can't imagine the 18's...!

 

Still can't picture a premium small car with 15" steel wheels. Our daughter has 15" steels on a Peugeot 108, but on a high spec Yaris, the best compromise I could think of if you want to play bumper cars with kerbs, I would have Icon 16" alloys as the non DT wheels are cheaper to repair.

[Cyker]

Don't worry, my friends find it weird too   (They also don't understand why I paid so much for a Yaris when I could have gotten a Corolla for the same money!), but I'm very much a function over form type of person - As long as it doesn't look awful, I've never been that bothered about the appearance so much as the bits I'm actually going to use!

 

[ParisYaris]

23 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, I'm far happier on the 15's than I was on the 17's.

Everything is better - ride comfort, noise, economy, acceleration and braking, tyre prices, peace of mind (I kerb them, I don't care!  )

Probably the best 'upgrade' I have done for the car! Best part is, since I went to 15" steels, it confused all the insurance companies, so they could only make a note of it but not charge me any more, as none of their systems have that as an option  

I think 16's are the sweet-spot tho - The ratio of everything just looks right with the 16's. On 17's the rims look a bit too big for the arches, and 15's look a bit too small. If I had 16's, probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of doing this, but the 17's were just a big nope (But I suspected and planned for that from before I bought the car...). I can't imagine the 18's...!

 

I didn't know it was possible to specify 16's wheels when placing a new order.  As I have placed an order for the Excel and I knew that I would prefer the 16's over the 17's.  However, it was the keyless entry available only on the Excel model meant I had to compromise somewhere. 

I would like to ask from your experience, how you managed to switched to 16's from 17's.  Was it through the dealership when you first placed the order.  Also, I really liked the tight turning circle when I test drove the Design.  I was wondering if the 17's had a bigger turning circle.

Thanks,

[flash22]

The dealer will not do it when you order the car, sales are mostly hopeless unless its on the computer, and they know where to look

A walk around the corner to the parts department usually does the trick, dont forget its Rim + TMPS + tyre so soon adds up

[Cyker]

I essentially had to do a custom parts order and had them fitted post sale (The dealer I got the car from wouldn't even order them for me, insisting they wouldn't fit, so I ordered them from the other dealer instead  )

Hardest part for me was finding the part number for the 15" steel rims - What should have been a simple query turned into a ridiculous ball ache, with literally none of the dealers I spoke to able to get me a part number or tell me the correct rim to get, as I wanted to make sure the width, offset etc. were correct. Some actually insisted they didn't exist! I even tried talking to an irish dealer, as I *know* their cars have the 15" steel rims, but they just directed me back to a UK dealer .

In the end I had to pester poor old PartsKing who had it back to me almost immediately! (Thank you again Kingo!!  )

(When I gave it to the dealer I ended up giving the job to, the parts guy said something like "Oh they're under the irish and hungarian market, that's why I couldn't find them!"   I literally told him that the irish market had them!!)

 

If you do the 17->16, you just need rims and tyres - You won't need nuts and the TPMS can be swapped from the existing rims, unless you want to keep both sets for e.g. winter+summer tyres sets. The quote I had for 4x new TPMS+ fitting and programming was twice what the tyres and rims and nuts cost so I told them to just swap them over instead.

Fair warning tho' - Buying the alloys adhoc is *much* more expensive than e.g. a 16 -> 17" upgrade as part of ordering the car. I think what they charge for the 16->17 inch upgrade is the same as a single 16" alloy!

It might be worth seeing if the dealer is willing to put you in contact with someone who has bought the 16->17" upgrade, or liaise between the two of you, and see if they are willing to sell you the 16" rims for less. Would also be a good test of their levels of customer service (I know mine wouldn't even bother...)

 

[ParisYaris]

Thanks Cyker for the reply.  Was busy the past few days, so didn't acknowledge it.