Driving with the aircon on

[haelewyn]

You would kind of know after a while that I am not one of the club with the emphesis on  'What a wonderul car this is'.

Aircon weather sometimes now.
I found the aircon to be on the weak side (takes long to cool down the car) and it's taking a lot of power from the engine.
Feels when the aircon is on, my Aygo is towing one or two others.

To get going on the highway, I guess it would be better to switch aircon off .. .otherwise I need to pull it, with higher revving, in 

every gear and it feels like I am overdoing it. 
But if I don't overdo it, the car will not get up to speed in a safe time.
Ventilator noise when in a queue with aircon on. Sometimes stops for a few seconds , then starts again.
Would be better if it stayed on..  would bother me less.

Any of you who think same or different ?

[Hornet3D]

5 hours ago, haelewyn said:

You would kind of know after a while that I am not one of the club with the emphesis on  'What a wonderul car this is'.

 

Aircon weather sometimes now.
I found the aircon to be on the weak side (takes long to cool down the car) and it's taking a lot of power from the engine.
Feels when the aircon is on, my Aygo is towing one or two others.

To get going on the highway, I guess it would be better to switch aircon off .. .otherwise I need to pull it, with higher revving, in 

every gear and it feels like I am overdoing it. 
But if I don't overdo it, the car will not get up to speed in a safe time.
Ventilator noise when in a queue with aircon on. Sometimes stops for a few seconds , then starts again.
Would be better if it stayed on..  would bother me less.

Any of you who think same or different ?

I can't say that I notice a loss of power with the Aircon on, I did once find that the temperature did not seem to drop quick enough but rectified it by using the 'Auto' option which I think switches in the climate control.  The only noise I get is a whine when the blower in on full power but this is dependant on the position the vents are set to.

[haelewyn]

I have the old school one .. not automatic / electronic display. 
Just the knobs and a button On / Off for the aircon.

I guess the installation under the button would be the same.. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

in our cars we just leave the air con on all the time and don't think this has much of a noticeable effect. To cool the car down quickly, I do the following:

* Drive for few minutes with the front windows open, which helps rid the car of a lot of the hot air

* If on, turn off the air recirculation as the air outside will be cooler than that inside the car

* Alter the air flow controls to direct flow to the footwells - as hot air rises, cooler air coming in at footwell level will replace the warm air

* When the car has cooled down sufficiently, close the windows and reset air flow/recirc controls to your usual settings.

[Hybrid21]

Aircon is ineffective if the windows are open 🙂

[FROSTYBALLS]

17 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Aircon is ineffective if the windows are open 🙂

Yes but driving for a few minutes with the windows open gets rid of much of the hot air inside the car, and the air con then doesn't need to work as hard to cool the car down initially. 

Both the AA and RAC advise this practice to cool a hot car down quickly.

I find the windows only need  to be open for around 0.5 miles.

[Cyker]

That's one thing I miss about not having a sunroof - In the Mk1, I would leave the sunroof tilted while it was parked which stopped it getting too hot. When driving, I could just turn AC on, tilt the sunroof, all the hot air gets pushed out the top and don't have to deal with any wind noise or buffeting!

I suppose with the Mk4, at least now I can remotely open all the windows now to give it a chance to vent some of the hot air!

 

[Rosgoe]

I have found over the years with different cars I have owned with ac is that the air con seemed colder than with modern cars such as our Toyotas. I wonder is this down to the gas they now use which I believe is CO2 as opposed to the old 134a gas and freon before that.

I have checked the temperature at the vents and it is 5 degrees although the ambient air in the car does not feel as cool as in previous cars I have owned.

 

[Cyker]

CO2 is mainly used by german manufacturers AFAIK; Unfortunately everyone else went with R1234yf which is very expensive and slightly flammable! But doesn't require major re-engineering of the AC system like CO2 does so saves manufacturers R&D money.

TBH I think it depends on the car - The AC system in my Mk4 is far better than the ones in my previous Yarisisueusuesus, and isn't dependent on engine speed for strong performance like those were.

See if there is a Fast/Eco button on your HVAC controls - That can boost AC/heater performance at the expense of fuel economy.

 

[haelewyn]

I saw in Asia cars have a much more powerful aircon. 
Or at least it looked to be like that because if you just let it blow on cold and speed 1 the interior of the car feels like a fridge.
That's something that ain't gonna happen with my Aygo.

It could really be the case that they put in a heavier installation in Asian market cars as temperatures are higher there.
I heard from a VW mechanic they do build in heavier heaters for areas where it's colder than here.

Fuel consumption :  apart of the feeling I am towing an other Aygo, the fuel consumption convinces me that some part on the car is doing heavy work. It goes up 1 liter per 100 km easily 

and driving slow on the highway (90-100) doesn't seem to have effect any more. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

12 minutes ago, Cyker said:

CO2 is mainly used by german manufacturers AFAIK

Back in 2015 Daimler Benz agreed to use 1234yf refrigerant. Germany was taken to court by the EU for allowing Daimler Benz to produce and sell cars that were Type Approved for 1234yf but which actually used R134a.

[Cyker]

To be frank, no engine-driven AC compressor attached to a 1 litre engine is going to have super high performance; The engine has what, 60-odd HP so about 50kW peak power - Average AC uses something like 2-4kW so thats nearly 10% of the engine's maximum power, but only at peak, which is 6000rpm! At lower RPM it will be an even higher percentage of the engine's output being used up by the AC.

There's now way around it - The poor thing is going to struggle. (Still, could be worse - My 1.3L Fiesta didn't even have AC...! )

I don't know if the newer Aygo uses a variable displacement compressor or just switches it on and off with a magnetic clutch like most cars do; When I had one as a courtesy car it did seem to disengage it if I asked for beans, presumably to allow the engine some better acceleration.

For strong AC, you can't beat diesels or cars that use electric compressors like hybrids and EVs. Diesels because the low-end torque allows them to drive the compressor much more easily (And with far less increase in fuel use than petrol engines), and hybrid/EVs just because the compressor is driven by the high-voltage traction Battery and performance is governed purely by the electric motor chosen.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

The engine has what, 60-odd HP

Second generation pre-facelift 68bhp,  post-faceliftt 71

[Jason Monk]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Yes but driving for a few minutes with the windows open gets rid of much of the hot air inside the car, and the air con then doesn't need to work as hard to cool the car down initially. 

Both the AA and RAC advise this practice to cool a hot car down quickly.

I find the windows only need  to be open for around 0.5 miles.

Quite right I've even read it in one of my cars manuals.

[DusanCZ]

We have a Škoda Fabia 1.0 Mpi 55 kW and an Aygo 53 kW at home. Both cars have mechanical air conditioning, but the Fabia has no reduced power when the air conditioning is running, the Aygo goes much lower. Why does Skoda know, but Toyota can't?

[haelewyn]

You got a point there. The reason why I am asking about this is that I have never experienced such a huge dropback in power with the airco on in any other car combined to an aircon giving so little power. It seems like if you buy this as an option, it's almost not worth it. 

I always felt less power in the engine in other cars , but never this much.

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, DusanCZ said:

We have a Škoda Fabia 1.0 Mpi 55 kW and an Aygo 53 kW at home. Both cars have mechanical air conditioning, but the Fabia has no reduced power when the air conditioning is running, the Aygo goes much lower. Why does Skoda know, but Toyota can't?

Is it a Mk2 Aygo out of curiosity? I wonder if they changed how the AC works on the newer ones - From what I remember of the original one, it would disengage the AC when the engine is under load (e.g. under acceleration) to avoid sapping power, but re-engage it once you're coasting or at constant speed.

I'm pretty sure the Skoda does something like this. Even my Yaris Mk2 did this (Well, before the AC system totally died...)

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

it would disengage the AC when the engine is under load (e.g. under acceleration) to avoid sapping power, but re-engage it once you're coasting or at constant speed.

The OP has a 2021 Aygo - facelift second generation.

The air con of our second generation doesn't disengage, and then again doesn't seem to be badly affected by the air con being on.

[haelewyn]

Doesn't disengage, that's right. I've been thinking to switch it off and on myself, manually, whenever I need all power from the engine.

They talked about the same subject here too, I found out just now.

 

[TonyHSD]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:08 AM, haelewyn said:

You would kind of know after a while that I am not one of the club with the emphesis on  'What a wonderul car this is'.

Aircon weather sometimes now.
I found the aircon to be on the weak side (takes long to cool down the car) and it's taking a lot of power from the engine.
Feels when the aircon is on, my Aygo is towing one or two others.

To get going on the highway, I guess it would be better to switch aircon off .. .otherwise I need to pull it, with higher revving, in 

every gear and it feels like I am overdoing it. 
But if I don't overdo it, the car will not get up to speed in a safe time.
Ventilator noise when in a queue with aircon on. Sometimes stops for a few seconds , then starts again.
Would be better if it stayed on..  would bother me less.

Any of you who think same or different ?

That’s normal behaviour from a small car with less powerful engine. AC tips with windows down are must have when driving the car. In addition to that I also open all doors and boot for 5 min before my journey as the car usually stays all day long under direct sunlight, cover windshield with heat shields helps a lot too. When start the car switch on ac and start driving with all windows down, then close front windows first and keep rear half open then close them too. 5-10 min and my car is nice and cool. I only use AC in hot days like now we have , when not necessarily I don’t use AC as I don’t like it. AC needs regas every 2-4 years to work as they should. All ac system loose a bit of gas over time and they need to be topped up. Many never done that and will say no need to, trust me you need.👍 Cabin filter once a year or 10k miles. 

[Wiz201]

I test drove an Aygo cross today with the CVT auto, and I noticed with the start stop technology it kept coming on to keep the aircon going despite the fact that I had not moved off the foot brake.

[FROSTYBALLS]

54 minutes ago, Wiz201 said:

I test drove an Aygo cross today with the CVT auto, and I noticed with the start stop technology it kept coming on to keep the aircon going despite the fact that I had not moved off the foot brake.

Most Toyota stop/start systems are dependent on electrical loads, Battery charge, etc within the car as to whether they stop, remain stopped or restart.  

[haelewyn]

To illustrate extra consumption in other vehicles, I saw in a Skoda where I usually have 4,8 liter / 100 km : with the aircon on that was 6,6 liter.

[Cyker]

Yea, it's quite a big hit in petrol engines, esp. when idling!!!

IIRC I'd take a hit of 5-8mpg in my petrol Mk2, vs about half that in the diesel Mk1.

 

2 hours ago, Wiz201 said:

I test drove an Aygo cross today with the CVT auto, and I noticed with the start stop technology it kept coming on to keep the aircon going despite the fact that I had not moved off the foot brake.

My Mk2 Yaris did that as well - It seems that as soon as it sensed the air was warming up past whatever the climate control was set to, it would fire up the engine to run the AC to cool it down again.

Essentially it was impossible for the start-stop to really do anything with the AC running if it was hot.

So you thinking of getting one? Be a bit more spacious for your doggy!  

How did you find it size-wise? Is it similar to the normal Aygo but 'on stilts', as in just lifted, or is it quite an increase in space in all areas?

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Never been too bothered about fuel consumption with our cars. They do what they do, period.