Wiper problems

[TonyHSD]

12 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Well my experience with Toyota and indeed the Yaris is such that I’m back with another.  I will only buy Japanese cars (the masters of mass production) and I’ve had many Toyota’s,  Mazda and Lexus.  Do I expect Lexus build quality?  No but I’d rather have any Toyota than a European brand when it comes to build and reliability.  I would have to have seen the “one off” rogue with poor panel gaps and paintwork on this forum.  I’m not saying it didn’t happen but I am saying it didn’t leave the factory like that - a surprising amount get damaged in transit or at the dealers.  I was looking at RRG’s Cross demo the other day and it had a terrible bend in it right through a from door and into the floorpan, that will end up with an unsuspecting customer at some stage.  Somebody must have had it hooked on a post or low wall - a proper mess.  My Yaris has perfectly even gaps and so have three Cross’s that I’ve been in close contact with lately.  It can’t be otherwise owing to the way they are jigged.   Same goes for the afore mentioned wiper “loose wire”.  I accept something could cause a fault but only knowing about car production and testing would arrive at the conclusion that there is more to that.  A colleague of a wife story is prone to “going to a dance, send three and fourpence” syndrome 😉.  Most faults on new cars are a result of human intervention.

Dodgy dealers then. I have seen videos about Toyota factory where Yaris are made and the amount of young people working, that’s why I made the joke, plus there are few complaints about quality issues of all sorts but all related to the manual labour involved into the building process. What you are saying make sense and in that case perhaps we should never trust dealers and inspect the car thoroughly before collecting. Any issues just refuse and request a new one. 

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Spo2 said:

Thanks, so do you apply silicone spray or grease on the rubber wiper blades?

The blades are actually made out of silicone instead of normal rubber - Makes them very expensive for a wiper blade, but they last for years, as silicone doesn't harden as quickly over time like rubber, and as it rubs off silicone onto the screen you don't even have to use them sometimes because the water beads off so well - It's better than RainX!

Before I was changing blades every year or two as they would screech or crack/split or constantly smear, but these I just buy them once when I get a car, and so far have never had to change them while I've owned that car.

 

[Hybrid21]

With regards to build quality, in my opinion Toyota is not what it was,  and is now selling on it's past reputation.

Also the dealers are not what they were, the majority only interested in as much profit as possible, customer satisfaction coming very low on their list.

Unfortunately this is a sign of the times and evident throughout the industry.

I have yet to visit a Lexus dealer, so would be interesting to see if any difference ?

[Cyker]

35 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

You better not. 
Once I had pair of my favourite Bosch classic, at the time they were made in Germany and we were an official Bosch reseller. Nearly new I decided to go with alcohol wipes and squeeze the rubber blades both sides to make them even better. What a mistake. Soon after that the wiper become very noisy, they started to jump all over and smeared badly. I made a complain to the Bosch importer and they asked me to send those back to them. Shortly after they knew what was done to them , I simply had destroyed the special coating that they have from factory and once this is done wipers can’t perform as good as before. They also advised when mounting them on the car to try not to touch excessively the rubber blades for the same reason and if need to clean them only with water and car shampoo on the mitt slide under the blades without too much pressure. Years later got the same advice from a famous car valeter who washes the cars of rich and famous in central London, he thought me his know how too, and it’s the same. He also said never to apply any car wax or polish onto the windows for the same reason, smearing afterwards. 👍

That's one thing I don't like about wipers that have special coatings to improve their performance - They're cheap and perform excellently at first, but the coating lets them get away with using lower quality rubber, and when the coating wears out they go back to being normal awful screechy wipers. A lot of the time the coating is just a thin layer of silicone which is what got me on this path to just get wipers totally made out of silicone!

 

 

[anchorman]

12 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Dodgy dealers then. I have seen videos about Toyota factory where Yaris are made and the amount of young people working, that’s why I made the joke, plus there are few complaints about quality issues of all sorts but all related to the manual labour involved into the building process. What you are saying make sense and in that case perhaps we should never trust dealers and inspect the car thoroughly before collecting. Any issues just refuse and request a new one. 

Given the choice of a car built in France or Japan I’d probably choose Japan because the Japanese worker is programmed with a good attitude but in reality, the cars shouldn’t be any different by just uplifting a factory into another location.  It’s the investment in facilities and and checking equipment that makes the difference.  The assembly is a big part part of the design.  If you watch the YouTube vids you’ll see the whole dash go in sub assembled and they keep any connections to a minimum - usually one or two big connections in the passenger footwell.  The only other for the wiper is at the motor and that isn’t under the dash. The wiring loom, dash sub assembly are tested at that point and the whole car are hooked up at start up on the line.  What does happen is dealers fit dashcams and towbars etc then things can go wrong.  I don’t think the dealers are much to worry about, we don’t read about these things much.  👍

[Cyker]

3 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

With regards to build quality, in my opinion Toyota is not what it was,  and is now selling on it's past reputation.

Also the dealers are not what they were, the majority only interested in as much profit as possible, customer satisfaction coming very low on their list.

Unfortunately this is a sign of the times and evident throughout the industry.

I have yet to visit a Lexus dealer, so would be interesting to see if any difference ?

I would say the build quality has declined a bit, as they have to use cheaper materials and building techniques to meet their price target, but this is true of all manufacturers, and I would say of all of them Toyota's has had the smallest decline by a huge margin and, more importantly, they've sacrificed build quality elsewhere to keep the build quality high where it really matters - The drivetrain.

When I was younger the advice everyone would give is "Get Japanese or German" if you wanted a reliable car; Now it's just "Get a Toyota."  

The germans have extremely good look and feel but their reliability has dropped to Ford/Vauxhall-levels, and the cars are a nightmare to work on compared to Toyotas. It's like they just try to pack as much stuff in the engine bay with no thought on how to access it should it need repairing or replacing once it's left the factory. Half the things seem to need a special tool to remove it.

 

[anchorman]

5 minutes ago, Cyker said:

That's one thing I don't like about wipers that have special coatings to improve their performance - They're cheap and perform excellently at first, but the coating lets them get away with using lower quality rubber, and when the coating wears out they go back to being normal awful screechy wipers. A lot of the time the coating is just a thin layer of silicone which is what got me on this path to just get wipers totally made out of silicone!

 

I’m fussy about wipers too.  I only buy Denso as the originals because they tend not to skip or clunk when they change direction.  I’ve never had any luck with other brands and the Bosch frameless are just fugly.  You can buy the rubber inserts for the Denso’s which are dead easy to fit.  

[Cyker]

10 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Given the choice of a car built in France or Japan I’d probably choose Japan because the Japanese worker is programmed with a good attitude but in reality, the cars shouldn’t be any different by just uplifting a factory into another location.  It’s the investment in facilities and and checking equipment that makes the difference.  The assembly is a big part part of the design.  If you watch the YouTube vids you’ll see the whole dash go in sub assembled and they keep any connections to a minimum - usually one or two big connections in the passenger footwell.  The only other for the wiper is at the motor and that isn’t under the dash. The wiring loom, dash sub assembly are tested at that point and the whole car are hooked up at start up on the line.  What does happen is dealers fit dashcams and towbars etc then things can go wrong.  I don’t think the dealers are much to worry about, we don’t read about these things much.  👍

The thing with Toyota is they design the car to be assembled AND serviced as easily as possible, to the point where any idiot (i.e. someone like me  )  should be able to build their part of the car with basic training and instruction, so as you say it shouldn't matter where they are made.

The problem is that it does - even with the Japanese built Mk1 and the French built Mk1 there are noticeable differences in build quality. The big problem that the french factory has always had is QA - I remember they got a big telling off around the Mk2 Yaris era because they were letting standards slip so much that word got back to the Japan HQ.

Hopefully they'll get that back up to scratch; My Mk4 seems to be much better built than these later ones judging by how people have been complaining recently, so I wonder if the long lead times is putting pressure on them and they're making more mistakes because of it...

[anchorman]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The thing with Toyota is they design the car to be assembled AND serviced as easily as possible, to the point where any idiot (i.e. someone like me  )  should be able to build their part of the car with basic training and instruction, so as you say it shouldn't matter where they are made.

The problem is that it does - even with the Japanese built Mk1 and the French built Mk1 there are noticeable differences in build quality. The big problem that the french factory has always had is QA - I remember they got a big telling off around the Mk2 Yaris era because they were letting standards slip so much that word got back to the Japan HQ.

Hopefully they'll get that back up to scratch; My Mk4 seems to be much better built than these later ones judging by how people have been complaining recently, so I wonder if the long lead times is putting pressure on them and they're making more mistakes because of it...

I wouldn’t be surprised if Macron hasn’t told the workers to spit under the carpet of the brit ones (joke).  Don’t know about the first Yaris, I thought they were a lot better than rival superminis of the time.  My Mk4 had rattles which I’ve fixed (one was my doing) but I know Fiesta and Polo owners that have had proper worries and don’t get me started on Minis.  I love this Mk4 and that’s after coming out of Lexus and CX5s. It pulls like a train, runs on fresh air and has been 100% reliable.  

[Spo2]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The blades are actually made out of silicone instead of normal rubber - Makes them very expensive for a wiper blade, but they last for years, as silicone doesn't harden as quickly over time like rubber, and as it rubs off silicone onto the screen you don't even have to use them sometimes because the water beads off so well - It's better than RainX!

Before I was changing blades every year or two as they would screech or crack/split or constantly smear, but these I just buy them once when I get a car, and so far have never had to change them while I've owned that car.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I would say the build quality has declined a bit, as they have to use cheaper materials and building techniques to meet their price target, but this is true of all manufacturers, and I would say of all of them Toyota's has had the smallest decline by a huge margin and, more importantly, they've sacrificed build quality elsewhere to keep the build quality high where it really matters - The drivetrain.

When I was younger the advice everyone would give is "Get Japanese or German" if you wanted a reliable car; Now it's just "Get a Toyota."  

The germans have extremely good look and feel but their reliability has dropped to Ford/Vauxhall-levels, and the cars are a nightmare to work on compared to Toyotas. It's like they just try to pack as much stuff in the engine bay with no thought on how to access it should it need repairing or replacing once it's left the factory. Half the things seem to need a special tool to remove it.

 

Not owned Toyota for long but Hyundai Kia were very reliable. 

[Cyker]

18 hours ago, anchorman said:

Don’t know about the first Yaris, I thought they were a lot better than rival superminis of the time.  My Mk4 had rattles which I’ve fixed (one was my doing) but I know Fiesta and Polo owners that have had proper worries and don’t get me started on Minis.  I love this Mk4 and that’s after coming out of Lexus and CX5s. It pulls like a train, runs on fresh air and has been 100% reliable.  

Oh the Mk1's were fantastic cars, not saying they weren't - Just saying there is a noticeable difference in quality between the french and jappy ones, which there shouldn't be in an ideal world.

Funny about the Mini, my neighbour's one apparently ate its headgasket and started pissing coolant out everywhere a week or so ago. I'm not sure if he's managed to repair it as I heard it start a couple days ago but haven't seen it since... it doesn't like a nice engine bay to work in...

17 hours ago, Spo2 said:

 

Not owned Toyota for long but Hyundai Kia were very reliable. 

I honestly think Kia and Hyundai are Toyota's biggest threat at the moment.

Their cars are like older Toyotas, in the sense that they are reliable, no-nonsense, and have less of the nonsensical Toyotaisms that have been creeping into newer Toyotas lately.

The one thing that's keeping Toyota ahead is their hybrid tech, as neither of the Koreans really do hybrid tech anywhere near as well or as pervasively.

The Kona EV was ahead of its time, although the exploding Battery recall has knocked it back a bit, plus the skyrocketing price (When it first came out it was 35-38k IIRC, now well over 40k! I was seriously thinking about getting one but umm'd and ahh'd because really it's too big on the outside and too small on the inside for me, and anyway I hate SUVs; The nail in the coffin was when the price went up and it started attracting the 'Premium Car Tax', because at the time the gov didn't think to exclude EVs from that, so the annual tax went from £0 or £340  .

[Starensis]

I have an horrendous wiper judder on ours - driver side. Will have to see if it’s down to car shampoo or window cleaning spray I’m using. Car is only 8 weeks old.

[Spo2]

40 minutes ago, Starensis said:

I have an horrendous wiper judder on ours - driver side. Will have to see if it’s down to car shampoo or window cleaning spray I’m using. Car is only 8 weeks old.

You might want to check if the bar to which Wiper Blades are fitted, do they sit perfectly on the windscreen. 

[Spo2]

51 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Oh the Mk1's were fantastic cars, not saying they weren't - Just saying there is a noticeable difference in quality between the french and jappy ones, which there shouldn't be in an ideal world.

Funny about the Mini, my neighbour's one apparently ate its headgasket and started ****** coolant out everywhere a week or so ago. I'm not sure if he's managed to repair it as I heard it start a couple days ago but haven't seen it since... it doesn't like a nice engine bay to work in...

 

 

I honestly think Kia and Hyundai are Toyota's biggest threat at the moment.

Their cars are like older Toyotas, in the sense that they are reliable, no-nonsense, and have less of the nonsensical Toyotaisms that have been creeping into newer Toyotas lately.

The one thing that's keeping Toyota ahead is their hybrid tech, as neither of the Koreans really do hybrid tech anywhere near as well or as pervasively.

The Kona EV was ahead of its time, although the exploding battery recall has knocked it back a bit, plus the skyrocketing price (When it first came out it was 35-38k IIRC, now well over 40k! I was seriously thinking about getting one but umm'd and ahh'd because really it's too big on the outside and too small on the inside for me, and anyway I hate SUVs; The nail in the coffin was when the price went up and it started attracting the 'Premium Car Tax', because at the time the gov didn't think to exclude EVs from that, so the annual tax went from £0 or £340  .

Agree, i wanted hybrid, and Toyota is way ahead of anyone else in this game. Recently, Juke got hybrid power train from Renault1Nissan alliance, but it barely gives 44 mpg per the tester. My 2 litre C-HR does 50ish and a comparable Yaris Cross might do 60 mpg in real life. 

[Cyker]

That's pretty rubbish - What's even the point of having a hybrid drivetrain if it can only do 44mpg?? A normal car can already do that! 

Now, the 70-80mpg the Yaris and Yaris Cross can do - That's the sort of mpg a hybrid drivetrain should be delivering in this day and age!  

 

[Starensis]

25 minutes ago, Spo2 said:

Agree, i wanted hybrid, and Toyota is way ahead of anyone else in this game. Recently, Juke got hybrid power train from Renault1Nissan alliance, but it barely gives 44 mpg per the tester. My 2 litre C-HR does 50ish and a comparable Yaris Cross might do 60 mpg in real life. 

My wife’s former 1.6L petrol Juke with Nissan engine did 42mpg on average.

[Hybrid21]

15 hours ago, Starensis said:

I have an horrendous wiper judder on ours - driver side. Will have to see if it’s down to car shampoo or window cleaning spray I’m using. Car is only 8 weeks old.

I think that's what my problem was Adam, washing the roof and the car shampoo polluting the windscreen.

It was a hell of a thing to remove, and I think it also contaminated my wipers. All good now 👍

[Hybrid21]

14 hours ago, Cyker said:

That's pretty rubbish - What's even the point of having a hybrid drivetrain if it can only do 44mpg?? A normal car can already do that! 

Now, the 70-80mpg the Yaris and Yaris Cross can do - That's the sort of mpg a hybrid drivetrain should be delivering in this day and age!  

 

My 2.0 litre Volvo diesel returned 50 mpg on a regular basis.

[Starensis]

3 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

I think that's what my problem was Adam, washing the roof and the car shampoo polluting the windscreen.

It was a hell of a thing to remove, and I think it also contaminated my wipers. All good now 👍

Maybe just clean screen with decent washer fluid?

[Hybrid21]

1 minute ago, Starensis said:

Maybe just clean screen with decent washer fluid?

I tried various methods and eventually used a product from Halfords which I would recommend.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Starensis said:

Maybe just clean screen with decent washer fluid?

Agreed. I also give the blade rubber a wipe with screenwash or plain water.

I used to use Toyota Optifit but found a decent alternative on Amazon. A front wiperblade with a rear too. The rear didn't fit! But for the price of both it was much cheaper than either Optifit, Denso, Valeo, Bosch etc.. It's still good after 6 months. Silent, no streaks, no judder.

I do use Bosch on the rear.

I rest my case M'lud re how Toyota quality has gone south.