Question From Dutch Cts Owner

[Henwen]

Guys,

I just have my car back from the Toyota garage. They heard the sound and I told them about all the other people with the same problems. I showed them the printouts of the forum and they decide to call the Dutch Toyota importer. The sound is inherent to the Corolla TS. They were familiar with this sound. So it was no news. They also claim at Toyota that this could not give any mechanical problems. I’m still not really convinced that it’s not a problem, but I still have a year warranty and I will see for a few months how it goes.

<_<

[eep2nw]

Yup guys,

got a response from my technician.... a little disbelieving actually.... he was saying that the noise is sortta like the trademark noise of the 2zzge (like the rattle rumble of the V8s)... so nothing to worry about yet.... aaarrgggghhh.... need to check with the celica guys to confirm this fact....

[Blacksheep]

Has any body actually had a mechanical mishap because of this noise or what might be related to the noise, could it be something to do with the VVTL if its only relevant to the TS model...

I've got a Yaris at the moment and its been totally trouble free 34,000 miles...

[QUICKSILVER]

Whats up all. I'm a South African RunX RSi (Corolla T-Sport) owner

Some talk about the scraping noise coming from the engine under load at low rpm. To check if the noise is coming from the engine, depress the clutch and press the accelerator. If the noise is not evident under this condition, then it is your transaxle that is making this noise.

Symptom:

When decelerating under engine compression or accelerating , particularly in lower gears under lower rpm conditions, you hear a growl / rattle entering the cabin. All that you are hearing is transaxle activity and Toyota gearboxes are, unfortunately, notorius for this. A fieldfix has been developed for this on all Corolla models, but does not eliminate the problem completely. The transaxle cable is fitted with a damper to reduce the intrusion of this noise into the cabin. The growl, as mentioned before, is also evident under acceleration under low rpm conditions. The growl should become less noticeable as you go higher up the rev range as well as moving up to a higher gear. Its purely an NVH issue and should not concern you.

Also, FYI

When the engine is idling under certain conditions, a rattling / ticking noise may make its way into the cabin. This noise is amplified, under certain conditions, when the aircon unit is turned on.

If you put in / engage your clutch, the noise goes away. If you experience this symptom, your car suffers from gear clatter. There is no cure for this and does not signify a malfunction. Many will tell you that it possibly would be a release or thrust bearing problem. This is not the case.

The increased noise levels attributable to gearbox activity is attributable to the fact that the casings are thinner to reduce weight. The problem is amplified as the underbody sealing and noise supression is poor. Hope this helps.

BTW, the engine itself is very noisy. If you stand near the hood, you will hear a variety of ticking noises coming from all over

[CTS03]

Tunix

I changed clutch and I also experience the same vibrations when starting the car (higher idle). However, I would describe them as clutch pedal's vibrations, felt on my foot and not on the steering wheel.

Did you change clutch for 2nd time because of this problem?

Or we should consider these vibrations as evidence of a good clucth, properly adjusted not to wear easily?

I thought the burning smell as the main problem in my old clutch. However, I realize now that it had become very tough to use it compared to the new one. The car's mechanical sound has probably also changed to a bit more bass sound.

[thecanadian]

My car is going in on Saturday morn. But, from what I've been reading all noises that I'm experiencing are probably normal. Not really anything wrong - just annoying. Although, there are a few other items I'll be having checked out including:

1) Passenger side windscreen washer nozzel spraying over car and not onto the windscreen. Probably just blocked with gunk.

2) Headlights dim for a split second randomly...I've read that this was supposed to be fixed by 03 reg. cars...hmmm, mine is an 03 reg.

3) Rear trunk/boot/hatch cover rattles over large bumps...have tried duck taping to pad out the inserts to no avail.

I think that's it...

So, let's get this absolutely clear. Toyota 6 speed is notoriously noisy - correct?

Oh, and two other things...When cold the car idles just below or at 2000rpm - is that normal? And, I do not have any rattles/vibrations coming through the clutch at start-up.

[Aphelion]

Hey

I had the lights dimming on my car, turns out its down to the ECU not being able to supply enough power, but your right was meant to be fixed on 03 models.

Car dose seem to idol higher revs when cold, guess it depends on what you all have running, think mine idols somewhere above 1500, and idols below 1000 when warm.

It is quite a bad quality issue with these grinding noises, not matter what toyota are saying about this being inherent to this car and gearbox, i have to say for a japaneese firm this is unaceptable, if this car had been built in Japan i know we wouldnt be talking about this, to me this must be something causing this, perhaps the parts are being made up to the tollerances layed out by toyota but not going beyond and with higher quality and attention to detail as they do in japan.

[tunix]

Tunix

I changed clutch and I also experience the same vibrations when starting the car (higher idle). However, I would describe them as clutch pedal's vibrations, felt on my foot and not on the steering wheel.

Did you change clutch for 2nd time because of this problem?

Or we should consider these vibrations as evidence of a good clucth, properly adjusted not to wear easily?

I thought the burning smell as the main problem in my old clutch. However, I realize now that it had become very tough to use it compared to the new one. The car's mechanical sound has probably also changed to a bit more bass sound.

Hello CTS,

I have the 3rd complete clutch in my car. With the first two I've experienced the vibrations on the pedal, but not when starting as you describe. They were present when I shifted up at the engine speed between 4 and 5 krpm. Also the strange noise was quite noticeable. The latest clutch seems to be free of those problems.

The vibrations I describe is the whole car shaking - the steering wheel, the seats, the whole chasis. It's very annoying. It wasn't present at all with the first clutch (the one with a pressure plate broken), and began with a clutch change. I don't believe it's a normal behaviour of a good strong clutch - IMHO it hurts other parts of the car. I had the clutch bearing destroyed after a week!

Yesterday I left the car at the dealer again. They took it to the Toyota Motor Poland central and asked for help solving the problem. Afaik today they received a long list of points to check and they keep checking them one after another. Let's see what they manage to find out :)

Best,

tx

[CTS03]

I want to believe that if somebody delays a bit to fully depress a good clutch (not slipping) then the car would start jerking and the engine will eventually turn off.

In fact, I felt the vibration at the first 3-4 starts but now I am probably getting synchronized and essentially not feel it any more. My timing could have been influenced also from 3days driving of a 1.4lt exchange Corolla. Or it could be the result of slightly increased temperatures (27C) that may affect idle.

Tunix, it will be very helpful to keep us updated with your clutch experiences.

I could have been convinced by Toyota that my clutch was desroyed from bad driving (no warantee) after 5-10K km if I did not see in this Forum how common problem is in CTS.

Some people claim that a short clutch lifetime is normal for a 190hp sport car. However, I do not know how common is this in other brands.

[tunix]

Tunix, it will be very helpful to keep us updated with your clutch experiences.

I could have been convinced by Toyota that my clutch was desroyed from bad driving (no warantee) after 5-10K km if I did not see in this Forum how common problem is in CTS.

I called them an hour ago. They are still going with the check list, so the car will stay at the garage over the weekend.

Last time I asked what is the cause of the clutch problems in my TS. They told me that they didn't know, but it wasn't a driving style. So keep on fighting for your warranty :)

Best,

tx

[spwolf]

Hey

I had the lights dimming on my car, turns out its down to the ECU not being able to supply enough power, but your right was meant to be fixed on 03 models.

Car dose seem to idol higher revs when cold, guess it depends on what you all have running, think mine idols somewhere above 1500, and idols below 1000 when warm.

It is quite a bad quality issue with these grinding noises, not matter what toyota are saying about this being inherent to this car and gearbox, i have to say for a japaneese firm this is unaceptable, if this car had been built in Japan i know we wouldnt be talking about this, to me this must be something causing this, perhaps the parts are being made up to the tollerances layed out by toyota but not going beyond and with higher quality and attention to detail as they do in japan.

- there is an TSB out for changing ECU to solve that lights dimming problem. In general, production changes dont have nothing to do with model years so the fix was implemented sometimes in 03, I am not sure when. Basically what happens is that ECU checks if pump is running and that draws too much energy from the alternator... Fix was to make ECU check it less.

- car revving higher is for the purposes of heating up

- noises from the car when engine braking are normal... It is not loud and not a problem really.

Only real problem with any Corolla are those few rattles, and they can really be annoying sometimes.

Other than those rattles (back is the one that i hate) I personally think Corolla is absolutly awesome ride, and very quiet for its class. Even CTS is pretty quiet and very smooth 4cly engine, 2zzge was never meant to be quiet, afterall it is an 192hp 1.8l engine. If you ever have an chance, get a ride in Celica - it is soooo much noiser than Corolla, due to much less sound isolation (weight).

What really bugs me is the noise from the passanger seat when nobody is in it. Anybody knows anything about this?

New Corolla's are even better, less noisy with even better quality materials.... It is kind of funny, but I rode in my friends 03 Passat, and it had way more rattles than Corolla, and it was more noisy and uncomfortble... Even my other friends A4 (new one) has few rattles.

My main problem with my CTS is that I have MR2 :-)

[thecanadian]

Ok, just got the car back from toyota service - excellent bunch of guys.

I took one of the mechanics out for a boot in the car just to make absolutely sure that he was aware of the noise I was talking about.

And, out of the three issues I had...

1) Passenger side windscreen washer nozzel spraying over car and not onto the windscreen. Probably just blocked with gunk.

- Fixed. no problem...just needed cleaning!

2) Headlights dim for a split second randomly...I've read that this was supposed to be fixed by 03 reg. cars...hmmm, mine is an 03 reg.

- There is a TSB (most of you already know this) and they are replacing my ECU on the 5th of Oct. Apparently not all 03 reg cars have the updated ecu - MINE BEING ONE OF THEM.

3) Rear trunk/boot/hatch cover rattles over large bumps...have tried duck taping to pad out the inserts to no avail.

Also, there is a TSB out for the gear linkages and cables in the CTS. Mine will be replaced on the 5th of Oct. They, the service department, showed me a diagram of the linkage assembly and it's actually quite a chunky looking part that needs replacing. The new linkage has been beefed up when compared to the original. Plus the cables have new dampers on them so they don't pass as much noise into the cabin.

All the above work is under warranty - No charge....plus a free courtesy car!

Oh, and I'm having the lowering springs fitted as well. These are, of course, at a cost. Will let you know how much when they are fitted...I think it will be 250 pounds including fitting. The springs themselves are 149.95.

[Aphelion]

Hey Canadian

Could you let me know more about the TSB for the clutch linkages etc, i am getting a noise when depressing the clutch and also could that account for the grinding noises.

Cheers

[CTS03]

Hi Canadian

What is supposed to be the problem related to your gear linkages and cables? Rattles or difficulty of gear shifts.

Even with my new clutch I find it too difficult to change gears, especially at medium rpm.

My real headache now are the rattles of the seats.

1) My seat rattles if its back is not vertical but is slightly bended to support my back. A "tsak-tsak" noise appears each moment the load on the back of the seat changes.

2) The passenger's seat rattles when a passenger is seating (better than spwolf) and seems to come from its base on the floor (metalic sliding sound).

My car is 5d and normally the seats should be stable.

I have reported these rattles many times but no solution! When I get the car back the seats are apparently in positions where they do not rattle. Then I gradually try to find the good driving position, and ratlles again!

I had the driver's seat rattle also in a 5d Corolla 1.4lt exchange car, so it should be something generic.

What dissapoints me with Toyota is that you cannot fix many (normally) little problems that should require 5min to fix in most cars.

Apparently the seats' rattles cannot be fixed. Do I have to change seats?

[eep2nw]

Hey guys,

mine's 02 reg and sometimes I notice that the instruments panel dims for a split second randomly.... any chance that this is also related to the ECU???

CTS03, I've read somewhere that Toyota have come up with new versions of the seat mountings and they sortta solved the rattling noise. So you might want to have yours checked.

Canadian, please explain a little more on the TSB on gear and clutch linkages.... I haven't heard anything about the TSB yet.... do I have to contact my dealer??

[thecanadian]

All,

Re: gear linkage: I have had no problems with shifting. I have had an abnormal amount of noise (whinning/whirring) in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. The noise only appears after the car is warm and only when decelerating in gear. ie. not when gas/petrol is applied. I took a mechanic for a spin in the car just to be sure that he could hear the noise and, he did, straight away. The mech. mentioned that the toyota six speed is a little more noisy than the standard 5 speed. He also mentioned that there is a replacement linkage arm and gear cables for the CTS. The linkage arm has been beefed up and the gear cables have had dampers added to them. Installing this should help reduce any noises that are being transmitted into the cabin from the gear box/tranny. All under warranty.

Re: ECU. Lights/insturment panel dimming for a split second is the symptom I had. There is a replacement ECU that solves this problem. Was supposed be fixed in all '03 models and above. However, some '03 models may not have had the new ECU installed - mine being one of them.

All of the above is under warranty - FREE. If you have 02, 52 or even an 03 reg CTS get it checked. Ask about the ECU and the new gear linkage and cables....you should have no problem getting this work done under warranty.

The car is in on the 5th of Oct. Will let you know how it goes.

[tunix]

Tunix, it will be very helpful to keep us updated with your clutch experiences.

I could have been convinced by Toyota that my clutch was desroyed from bad driving (no warantee) after 5-10K km if I did not see in this Forum how common problem is in CTS.

Guys, today I picked the car from the dealer. Guess what I heard - "this is normal for that kind of car". I've enough of this. The car is for sale.

Best,

tx

[eep2nw]

Hey tunix,

I understand what you mean because that's the kind of reply I'm getting as well... I'm also considering selling my car for perhaps the CTR.... but I'll have to check with Nick to see if the CTR owners have got similar build problems..

[Nick-Johnson]

Tunix, it will be very helpful to keep us updated with your clutch experiences.

I could have been convinced by Toyota that my clutch was desroyed from bad driving (no warantee) after 5-10K km if I did not see in this Forum how common problem is in CTS.

Guys, today I picked the car from the dealer. Guess what I heard - "this is normal for that kind of car". I've enough of this. The car is for sale.

Best,

tx

I had all the same rubbish from my local dealer as well, unfortunately after so much trouble I lost confidence with the car which was a real shame.

I know its easy for me to say at this stage but the Civic is turning out to be a much better bet, the interior quality is in another leauge no rattles or squeaks to be heard at all and it is much harder sprung.

I am very please with my choice!

Nick

[xoom]

So has anyone managed to get this issue fixed ?

As i noticed a lot of you guys had appointments with toyota.

Did u just get this is usual for the car ? or did anyone actually get it fixed ? or have they even told u what the problem actually is ?

Cheers

Bill

[thecanadian]

Bill/xoom...

see my previous message above. The car was booked in for today, however, I have rescheduled to Friday the 8th. Toyota will be replacing my ECU, gear cables and gear linkage arm under warranty.

I'll post a response once the work has been carried out.

[CTS03]

Tunix, perhaps I realized what you mean by car's jerking during gear changes. I have felt it sometimes, e.g. when I upshift from 2nd to 3rd at 4000rpm to avoid the engine noise, in heavy traffic where I cannot accelerate.

However, the changes are rather smooth if I accelerate sufficiently (>5K rpm) just before the upshift. Keeping a window open and the radio off helps the timing!

Not very convenient, but it is not necessarily a problem. I guess a sporty-like car needs some abrupt clutch engagement and to upshift only in a real acceleration process.

[tunix]

Tunix, perhaps I realized what you mean by car's jerking during gear changes. I have felt it sometimes, e.g. when I upshift from 2nd to 3rd at 4000rpm to avoid the engine noise, in heavy traffic where I cannot accelerate.

CTS, it's not the issue. My experience is the whole car shaking when slowly taking off. I tried to talk to Toyota Motor Poland and they sent me to another dealer. The guys there confirmed the problem, and I'm negotiating the solution. I don't want this car anymore.

Best,

tx

[eep2nw]

Hey canadian, today's judgement day... let's hope things turn out well. I've been through the Aussie forums and they've got similar problems as well. Apparently, one of them swapped the clutch to the trd ones and it solved the whole scraping issue............

[xoom]

hi guys,

im one of the guys from aus thats having this problem. I have an appointment in a few days with toyota to check this out...will let u know how i go....Canadian can u let us know how u went.

cheers Bill