Global Recall Notice

[bZ4X]

3 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

why? The cars are not any less safe. Why is the first reaction always to jump on the compensation claim bandwagon? 

Cars reputation may affect the second hand price. First parties of the bz4x is like cursed 😊. And the compensation they can offer as a gesture for the delay and lack of communication. 

[W id]

I hope they have used this time to work on the maps so they can calculate when and where to charge en route like the integrated Google maps on Volvo. Also so that the Battery can be preheated before charging. Do we know anything if that is in the pipeline. 

[ernieb]

24 minutes ago, W id said:

I hope they have used this time to work on the maps so they can calculate when and where to charge en route like the integrated Google maps on Volvo. Also so that the battery can be preheated before charging. Do we know anything if that is in the pipeline. 

The PHEV has heating and cooling of the Battery during charge so sure the BZ4x will also work the same way.

[swoop5511]

He is referring to route planning. i.e. incorporating SOC and planning and updating accordingly based on actual use. Back in June when we ordered the car this was not included and dealer was not sure whether this would come or not

[W id]

13 minutes ago, swoop5511 said:

He is referring to route planning. i.e. incorporating SOC and planning and updating accordingly based on actual use. Back in June when we ordered the car this was not included and dealer was not sure whether this would come or not

I have read or seen some YouTube reviewer saying that it would be coming also that it was like Toyota was the only company not having a route planning that could include charging stops on the market which was something that they had to fix. Which I think they will. Planning is everything if you are afraid of moving to an ev. 

[Malop]

From one of the many forums I’m in. Lots more detail about the issue. Thisis automated translation. 

Toyota Masahiko Maeda CTO talks about the hub bolt recall of the Battery EV "bz4X" and Subaru "Solterra"

Editorial Department: Kiyoshi Tanigawa

October 6, 2022 

bz4X bolt connection structure and cause

bz4X hub bolt measures

　On October 6, Toyota Motor Corporation notified the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism of a recall regarding the hub bolts of the Battery EV "bz4X" and the Subaru "Solterra" produced by the company, and announced countermeasures.

　Regarding the hub bolts of both vehicles, on June 23rd, a recall was filed with the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism due to the problem of bolts loosening. No accidents have occurred due to this recall, but production and sales have also been suspended.

　Masahiko Maeda, CTO (Chief Technology Officer), Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer of Toyota Motor Corporation, spoke online about the details of the recall after the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism accepted the details of the recall measures.

　The problem this time was "In the disc wheel mounting part, the wheel processing and hub bolt specifications were inappropriate, so the tightening force of the hub bolt was insufficient for the driving performance of the vehicle, and continuous rapid acceleration and sudden braking were repeated. Therefore, if you continue to drive in this state, an abnormal noise may occur, and in the worst case, the tire may fall off.”

　Specifically, the hub bolts are used to tighten the brake rotor mounting surface and the wheel mounting surface.

　Therefore, as a countermeasure, the hub bolt has been replaced with a washer-shaped integrated type, and the hub bolt and washer are separate parts, and an O-ring-shaped rubber is sandwiched between them. At the same time, replace the disc wheel with a non-defective product for all vehicles. Take measures from both sides of the hub bolt and disc wheel.

　CTO Maeda points out that the cause of the loosening of the hub bolts was that the manufacturing quality of the disc wheels was wider than expected. As long as it is an industrial product, some degree of quality fluctuation is unavoidable for manufacturing reasons, but there were wheels that were outside the range of design assumptions. "The surface properties on the wheel side were not as specified, so it was in a slippery state," said CTO Maeda. .

　As for the surface properties of the wheel, it is said that there was roughness in the processing, and it was not properly processed (the surface was not processed properly). (Maeda CTO) explained.

　Regarding the fact that it took time until early October to investigate the cause and announce countermeasures while grasping the problem in June, he said, "I wonder why it took so long, but I wondered if the design specifications were okay. The story, whether the product quality is as intended, and whether the presumed cause can be fully confirmed by evaluation? There is a need to properly create and confirm.”

　Especially for the evaluation, it honestly takes time to set various conditions for how to apply loads and how to apply force such as turning, stopping, and running, and confirming "Is it really okay?" It is said that it took

　Regarding some of the destinations, "Japan, North America, Asia, and a little more detail, but Israel" (CTO Maeda). In Japan, as announced in the recall, all vehicles are subject to replacement.

　With the notification and acceptance of this recall, Toyota has resumed production with countermeasures for the Toyota "bz4X" and Subaru "Solterra". In addition to proceeding with the recall, we will deliver production vehicles equipped with countermeasure products to customers who have placed orders. Orders at KINTO will resume on October 26, and sales in other regions will resume sequentially.

　The most frequently asked questions were, "Isn't it because it's an electric car?" Regarding this point, Maeda CTO explained, "It's not like that." This meant that there was a wheel that could not be properly tightened with respect to the assumed torque.

　Originally, it would have been better to use countermeasures for the wheels, but the fact that the hub bolts have been reviewed and used as countermeasures seems to have seen a higher safety factor than before. It is said that countermeasure hub bolts with washers can be used repeatedly, but considering that the washer's yield point is exceeded due to overtightening (too much torque), you should leave it to the dealer to change summer tires and winter tires.

　CTO Maeda said that while proceeding with the recall, "First and foremost, our top priority is to deliver cars to customers who have been kept waiting and are causing trouble."

[bZ4X]

15 hours ago, Malop said:

From one of the many forums I’m in. Lots more detail about the issue. Thisis automated translation. 

Toyota Masahiko Maeda CTO talks about the hub bolt recall of the battery EV "bz4X" and Subaru "Solterra"

Editorial Department: Kiyoshi Tanigawa

October 6, 2022 

bz4X bolt connection structure and cause

bz4X hub bolt measures

　On October 6, Toyota Motor Corporation notified the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism of a recall regarding the hub bolts of the battery EV "bz4X" and the Subaru "Solterra" produced by the company, and announced countermeasures.

　... 

　CTO Maeda said that while proceeding with the recall, "First and foremost, our top priority is to deliver cars to customers who have been kept waiting and are causing trouble."

Thanks for this update. Can you please share the source? 

So why it took time, to test it 😊

"Especially for the evaluation, it honestly takes time to set various conditions for how to apply loads and how to apply force such as turning, stopping, and running, and confirming "Is it really okay?" It is said that it took"

And what does he mean by "all vehicles are subject to replacement."? They confirmed they will fix produced cars? 

[lightboxcar]

Here is an article from Reuters today: 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-resume-selling-its-first-mass-produced-ev-after-safety-concern-recall-2022-10-06/

key takes:

"would restart production of its first electric vehicle, the bZ4X, on Thursday..."

"He did not specify when U.S. sales would recommence..."

 

[lightboxcar]

2 hours ago, Malop said:

From one of the many forums I’m in. Lots more detail about the issue. Thisis automated translation. 

Toyota Masahiko Maeda CTO talks about the hub bolt recall of the battery EV "bz4X" and Subaru "Solterra"

Editorial Department: Kiyoshi Tanigawa

October 6, 2022 

bz4X bolt connection structure and cause

bz4X hub bolt measures

　On October 6, Toyota Motor Corporation notified the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism of a recall regarding the hub bolts of the battery EV "bz4X" and the Subaru "Solterra" produced by the company, and announced countermeasures.

　Regarding the hub bolts of both vehicles, on June 23rd, a recall was filed with the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism due to the problem of bolts loosening. No accidents have occurred due to this recall, but production and sales have also been suspended.

　Masahiko Maeda, CTO (Chief Technology Officer), Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer of Toyota Motor Corporation, spoke online about the details of the recall after the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism accepted the details of the recall measures.

　The problem this time was "In the disc wheel mounting part, the wheel processing and hub bolt specifications were inappropriate, so the tightening force of the hub bolt was insufficient for the driving performance of the vehicle, and continuous rapid acceleration and sudden braking were repeated. Therefore, if you continue to drive in this state, an abnormal noise may occur, and in the worst case, the tire may fall off.”

　Specifically, the hub bolts are used to tighten the brake rotor mounting surface and the wheel mounting surface.

　Therefore, as a countermeasure, the hub bolt has been replaced with a washer-shaped integrated type, and the hub bolt and washer are separate parts, and an O-ring-shaped rubber is sandwiched between them. At the same time, replace the disc wheel with a non-defective product for all vehicles. Take measures from both sides of the hub bolt and disc wheel.

　CTO Maeda points out that the cause of the loosening of the hub bolts was that the manufacturing quality of the disc wheels was wider than expected. As long as it is an industrial product, some degree of quality fluctuation is unavoidable for manufacturing reasons, but there were wheels that were outside the range of design assumptions. "The surface properties on the wheel side were not as specified, so it was in a slippery state," said CTO Maeda. .

　As for the surface properties of the wheel, it is said that there was roughness in the processing, and it was not properly processed (the surface was not processed properly). (Maeda CTO) explained.

　Regarding the fact that it took time until early October to investigate the cause and announce countermeasures while grasping the problem in June, he said, "I wonder why it took so long, but I wondered if the design specifications were okay. The story, whether the product quality is as intended, and whether the presumed cause can be fully confirmed by evaluation? There is a need to properly create and confirm.”

　Especially for the evaluation, it honestly takes time to set various conditions for how to apply loads and how to apply force such as turning, stopping, and running, and confirming "Is it really okay?" It is said that it took

　Regarding some of the destinations, "Japan, North America, Asia, and a little more detail, but Israel" (CTO Maeda). In Japan, as announced in the recall, all vehicles are subject to replacement.

　With the notification and acceptance of this recall, Toyota has resumed production with countermeasures for the Toyota "bz4X" and Subaru "Solterra". In addition to proceeding with the recall, we will deliver production vehicles equipped with countermeasure products to customers who have placed orders. Orders at KINTO will resume on October 26, and sales in other regions will resume sequentially.

　The most frequently asked questions were, "Isn't it because it's an electric car?" Regarding this point, Maeda CTO explained, "It's not like that." This meant that there was a wheel that could not be properly tightened with respect to the assumed torque.

　Originally, it would have been better to use countermeasures for the wheels, but the fact that the hub bolts have been reviewed and used as countermeasures seems to have seen a higher safety factor than before. It is said that countermeasure hub bolts with washers can be used repeatedly, but considering that the washer's yield point is exceeded due to overtightening (too much torque), you should leave it to the dealer to change summer tires and winter tires.

　CTO Maeda said that while proceeding with the recall, "First and foremost, our top priority is to deliver cars to customers who have been kept waiting and are causing trouble."

"In Japan, as announced in the recall, all vehicles are subject to replacement...."  Does this means replacing the whole vehicle ??

"Toyota has resumed production..."   Seems to conform the Reuters report

"we will deliver production vehicles equipped with countermeasure products to customers who have placed orders..."  again does this indicate new vehicles will be manufacted for those like us who placed order previously ?

"Orders at KINTO will resume on October 26, and sales in other regions will resume sequentially..."  Kinto appears to be Japan (lease only), so they go step by step, not all regions at same time.  Possibly explains why no UK announcement yet ?

"It is said that countermeasure hub bolts with washers can be used repeatedly, but considering that the washer's yield point is exceeded due to overtightening (too much torque), you should leave it to the dealer to change summer tires and winter tires....."    This is a concern if it means owners cannot change the wheel on their cars by themselves ???

"our top priority is to deliver cars to customers who have been kept waiting..."  Pesumably thi means folks like us who placed an order for the car six months ago ??

Of course , as Paul says above , "This is automated translation.."  and it is from a forum, not direct from Toyota , but it all looks legit

 

[Malop]

2 hours ago, bZ4X said:

Can you please share the source?

Source of article, including pictures 

https://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1445585.html

[lightboxcar]

21 hours ago, bZ4X said:

Cars reputation may affect the second hand price. First parties of the bz4x is like cursed 😊. And the compensation they can offer as a gesture for the delay and lack of communication. 

Agree you pose a valid question.

The label 'refurbished vehicles ...'  seems undesirable, sounds like some sort of second hand piece of kit

[fourbanks]

I think once this car is released, it comes with a substantial discount so that it gets back on track to be the world leader in the EV market 

[lightboxcar]

10 minutes ago, fourbanks said:

I think once this car is released, it comes with a substantial discount so that it gets back on track to be the world leader in the EV market 

Are you saying the list price will be reduced ?

[fourbanks]

1 minute ago, lightboxcar said:

Are you saying the list price will be reduced ?

Yes, under the circumstances we need to move on and the best way of doing that is to reduce the price to around from £30.000 so that confidence is maintained in Toyota in going forward. The same with Lexus. As to what has been the hold up so far is anyone's guess and in reality no one will ever know for sure 

[egg]

Quote from Autocar article

"A spokesperson for Toyota GB told Autocar that the 800 customers who made orders before the stop will now be contacted shortly to arrange a delivery date"

This is in reference to uk customers

[temp.est]

7 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

Agree you pose a valid question.

The label 'refurbished vehicles ...'  seems undesirable, sounds like some sort of second hand piece of kit

I wouldn’t necessarily look at this as a refurbished vehicle. Cars literally get recalled all the time and still sell well. 

[swoop5511]

they're NOT replacing cars. 

Toyota Press Room

quote: "

For all subject vehicles in the U.S., the hub bolts will be replaced with newly designed hub bolts with washers and the wheels will be replaced with improved ones. The remedy will be provided by Toyota dealers at no cost to the customer.

Remedy parts are being prepared, and Toyota’s goal is to begin offering the remedy for customer vehicles by November 2022."

For me that applies to the cars already built and would logically include the ones at Toyota HQ UK

[Malop]

Don’t forget the English text is from a translation utility, words like refurbished and replace are just the closest English word. When the official UK and USA updates come out they may be more reflective of the actual recall work. 

On the post recall pricing, there is another way of looking at it. Based on the 800 pre orders and the number of people who said they’d cancelled their orders, Toyota might be just about to get 100-200 immediately available EVs, something other EV manufacturers are desperate to achieve. With current market pressures that might mean no need to discount. 

[bZ4X]

7 hours ago, fourbanks said:

Yes, under the circumstances we need to move on and the best way of doing that is to reduce the price to around from £30.000 so that confidence is maintained in Toyota in going forward. The same with Lexus. As to what has been the hold up so far is anyone's guess and in reality no one will ever know for sure 

I don't think, Toyota would ever do that. They can only offer cashback to current owners. 

[rfrancis073]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyotas-fix-bz4x-disconnecting-wheels-recall

Seems like US only to get new wheels.  All get new hub bolts with washers.  This could explain why Toyota GB has stated that customers who ordered before stop sale would be contacted SOON to get a delivery date of their BZ.  It’s a quicker fix if there is no requirement for new wheels on top of new bolts.

[bZ4X]

Sorry for translation:

Because the friction coefficient of the rim bolt surface originally used on the bZ4X is higher than expected, the actual clamping force of the bolt locking during assembly is lower, resulting in a certain driving condition or higher operating temperature of the bolts. Change its friction coefficient , resulting in additional looseness; this also makes the anti-slip torque of the rim lower than normal, causing all the bolts on the rim to loosen enough. In addition, the high surface roughness of the rim and the deviation of the position of the bolt holes on the vehicle will also make the overall anti-slip torque of the rim lower.

Source: https://cars.tvbs.com.tw/car-news/79500

[bZ4X]

3 hours ago, rfrancis073 said:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyotas-fix-bz4x-disconnecting-wheels-recall

Seems like US only to get new wheels.  All get new hub bolts with washers.  This could explain why Toyota GB has stated that customers who ordered before stop sale would be contacted SOON to get a delivery date of their BZ.  It’s a quicker fix if there is no requirement for new wheels on top of new bolts.

Don't think so. They used standart wheel and bolts for all wehicles. Thus solution should be standart for all vehicles. But very soon we will see the changes.

My only concern is the second hand price of these first batch of cars. Toyota will mark them 😔 so people may not want to buy the car when we sell. There will be a proper yellow mark next to WIN. 

Personally, Toyota should not mark them just fix it as they alblockquotelockquote widget

[W id]

Has anyone heard a delivery date yet?

[bZ4X]

2 minutes ago, W id said:

Has anyone heard a delivery date yet?

Not me. But I sent an email to my dealer. 

[egg]

Wonder how long it will be before someone on here hears something