Global Recall Notice

[FROSTYBALLS]

12 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

June 23 recall

June 22 presumably

[lightboxcar]

13 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

June 22 presumably

Meant 23rd June

[ernieb]

7 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

That would make it over four months since the June 23 recall.  Seems to suggest this is a serious and complex problem, a major design flaw.

Am sure this will be making many people decide against purchasing this vehicle , seems a terrible shame as it was such a promising model...

Cetainly will now be looking at an alternative

People have short memories and frankly it's only early adopters who are in this situation and monitoring the deliveries.  When the car is fixed and re type approved ( which is probably a significant delay in getting the cars back into the show rooms) Toyota will have no problem moving these cars.

I know what it's like to wait for a new car that's been on order for many months with unscheduled delays the frustration and readings every news feed I could but the sad truth is that any orders cancelled will be snapped up once they hit the showrooms.

[swoop5511]

2 hours ago, ernieb said:

People have short memories and frankly it's only early adopters who are in this situation and monitoring the deliveries.  When the car is fixed and re type approved ( which is probably a significant delay in getting the cars back into the show rooms) Toyota will have no problem moving these cars.

I know what it's like to wait for a new car that's been on order for many months with unscheduled delays the frustration and readings every news feed I could but the sad truth is that any orders cancelled will be snapped up once they hit the showrooms.

Agree on all points. My dealer gave me a curtesy call this week and while he didnt have any specific / new info he suspected that the re testing / certification is what is taking the time.

There is nothing comparable (price / size / capabilities) available on lead times shorter than 6 months. Realistically its 9 -14 months (Enyaq ouch)

On a separate note, Toyota has sorted out the free charger + install. Right after the call, as promised by the dealer i was contacted by local british gas to arrange site survey for install. 

[kingrikk]

1 hour ago, swoop5511 said:

Agree on all points. My dealer gave me a curtesy call this week and while he didnt have any specific / new info he suspected that the re testing / certification is what is taking the time.

Exactly. I had a “thrilling” discussion on Reddit yesterday with someone who said I was a Toyota fanboy for suggesting that manufacturing is hard, and while this shouldn’t have happened in the first place, it did, it doesn’t mean Toyota didn’t try to deliver a good car, and lack of news doesn’t mean they’ve not already got a fix.

But it seems some people don’t like reading things or thinking very carefully and love jumping to assumptions. 

[duncerduncs]

It does seem that the Tesla fanboys are having a field day, they do have short memories...

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-over-475000-electric-vehicles-2021-12-30/

[ernieb]

45 minutes ago, duncerduncs said:

It does seem that the Tesla fanboys are having a field day, they do have short memories...

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-over-475000-electric-vehicles-2021-12-30/

as well as locking thousands out of their cars when the server systems crashed. Every car manufacturer has issues from time to time I do think that Toyota are in the top league of those who face the issues head on and early rather than problems that some manufacturers never want to own up too.

[lightboxcar]

12 hours ago, ernieb said:

People have short memories and frankly it's only early adopters who are in this situation and monitoring the deliveries.  When the car is fixed and re type approved ( which is probably a significant delay in getting the cars back into the show rooms) Toyota will have no problem moving these cars.

I know what it's like to wait for a new car that's been on order for many months with unscheduled delays the frustration and readings every news feed I could but the sad truth is that any orders cancelled will be snapped up once they hit the showrooms.

Possibly.  That will depend on what the fault is / was.  For example , suppose the electic motors cuase some vibration to loosen the wheels.  Would buyers want to accept a brand new vehicle that has been taken apart and rebuilt becuase of this ?

Maybe they will be snapped up, the car industry is totally broken at present, with crazy lead times.

On the other hand wheels falling off is not the avarage recall, and may be perceived as really scary by some.

Presumably someting like this gets very high priority.  It's been about six weeks since the recall with zero news.  Seems reasonable to then assume this is not a case of wheel nuts not being tighened, but something more complex and serious

The worst thing is the complete lack of information from Toyota, leading to all sort of speculation.  That, combined with the nature of the fault, impacts on brand confidence. Buyers will walk away , that's a given...

Te UK recall affects 432 cars in the UK to fix.  Toyota Burnaston employs around 4,000 people, not sure how many of them will be deployed to implement the fix.....

[kingrikk]

The 432 cars to fix in the UK are demonstrators and showroom models. I assume the dealers will fix them? It’s the other 2700? cars belonging to customers that are in Derby and need the fix that could take a while. 

[lightboxcar]

2 minutes ago, kingrikk said:

The 432 cars to fix in the UK are demonstrators and showroom models. I assume the dealers will fix them? It’s the other 2700? cars belonging to customers that are in Derby and need the fix that could take a while. 

Good point , thank you.  So cars at Derby are not technically recalled as they have not been supplied to the customer, correct ?

[kingrikk]

Technically that’s correct, yes. As far as I know, the only place any were delivered to customers is the US, and maybe even only California.

[ernieb]

21 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Possibly.  That will depend on what the fault is / was.  For example , suppose the electic motors cuase some vibration to loosen the wheels.  Would buyers want to accept a brand new vehicle that has been taken apart and rebuilt becuase of this ?

Maybe they will be snapped up, the car industry is totally broken at present, with crazy lead times.

On the other hand wheels falling off is not the avarage recall, and may be perceived as really scary by some.

Presumably someting like this gets very high priority.  It's been about six weeks since the recall with zero news.  Seems reasonable to then assume this is not a case of wheel nuts not being tighened, but something more complex and serious

The worst thing is the complete lack of information from Toyota, leading to all sort of speculation.  That, combined with the nature of the fault, impacts on brand confidence. Buyers will walk away , that's a given...

Te UK recall affects 432 cars in the UK to fix.  Toyota Burnaston employs around 4,000 people, not sure how many of them will be deployed to implement the fix.....

I might well be wrong but from what I understand the wheels did not just fall off during normal use the car was being pushed beyond reasonable normal limits. However, I certainly agree it’s not good but Toyotas reaction was instinctive and the car with all the attendant publicity and costs implications was withdrawn.

[AJones]

7 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I might well be wrong but from what I understand the wheels did not just fall off during normal use the car was being pushed beyond reasonable normal limits.

From the bulletin, it appears the conditions required are still under investigation, there's no mention of it being caused by the vehicle being pushed beyond reasonable limits. 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V444-8502.PDF

[ernieb]

21 minutes ago, AJones said:

From the bulletin, it appears the conditions required are still under investigation, there's no mention of it being caused by the vehicle being pushed beyond reasonable limits. 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V444-8502.PDF

OK thanks, I was going on information that I recall when the problem was initially announced. 

[Hayzee]

https://www.inputmag.com/tech/toyota-bz4x-ev-recall-buyback-electric-vehicle-wheels-fall-off/amp

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 8/4/2022 at 7:13 PM, kingrikk said:

It’s the other 2700? cars belonging to customers that are in Derby

The 2,700 figure is the global number affected, and these won't all be at Burnaston. Likely to be just the 432 demonstrators and press fleet vehicles. Presumably Subaru UK or their dealers are storing UK Solterras.

[Cyker]

This all smells unbelievably fishy.

 

[bZ4xSupra]

My Premier Edition is in the UK so there are more than just the demonstrators and press vehicles. The first customer vehicles were due for delivery in early July, mine included.

[fourbanks]

26 minutes ago, Hayzee said:

https://www.inputmag.com/tech/toyota-bz4x-ev-recall-buyback-electric-vehicle-wheels-fall-off/amp

it's hard to believe that the wheels would fall off, as the nuts used are in the main made in the USA for cars built in Japan and the USA.  The Lexus UX 300E would have had the same nuts, i'm sure? it's also hard to believe that the nuts could come loose on their own unless the Brake rotors nut threads are undersized, and then yes they could come loose under certain driving conditions. 

it also would depend on who fitted the wheels, was by hand or by a robotic machine. If it was by hand, then that person wasn't paying attention, if it was by a robotic machine that's unlikely as all cars would be affected across the plant.

Lastly, faults on wheels would show up on the wheel balancer 

 

my guess is that the Brake rotors are at fault and would sheer off because of miner fractures within the metal casting that would go unseen. 

i think the story so far is not accurate, as it's coming across far too simple to just blame the nuts. Failure of the wheel bearing or ball joint, yes that makes sense "nuts no" 

 

 

[lightboxcar]

46 minutes ago, Hayzee said:

https://www.inputmag.com/tech/toyota-bz4x-ev-recall-buyback-electric-vehicle-wheels-fall-off/amp

Wow !!! 

The stand out bits are

"Toyota is all but admitting defeat with the recall of its bZ4X EV...."

"We’re willing to wager that worrying about your wheels flying off while you drive is probably a ride most people would prefer not to take....."

Beginning to look more and more like this vehicle may be dead in the water, and will never see the light of day

 

[lightboxcar]

9 minutes ago, fourbanks said:

it's hard to believe that the wheels would fall off, as the nuts used are in the main made in the USA for cars built in Japan and the USA.  The Lexus UX 300E would have had the same nuts, i'm sure? it's also hard to believe that the nuts could come loose on their own unless the Brake rotors nut threads are undersized, and then yes they could come loose under certain driving conditions. 

it also would depend on who fitted the wheels, was by hand or by a robotic machine. If it was by hand, then that person wasn't paying attention, if it was by a robotic machine that's unlikely as all cars would be affected across the plant.

Lastly, faults on wheels would show up on the wheel balancer 

 

my guess is that the Brake rotors are at fault and would sheer off because of miner fractures within the metal casting that would go unseen. 

i think the story so far is not accurate, as it's coming across far too simple to just blame the nuts. Failure of the wheel bearing or ball joint, yes that makes sense "nuts no" 

 

 

Ok so imagine a scenario where the "fixed" bits are so different it is impossible to install them in a vehicle that is already built , becuase the existing bodywork/panels/available space just does not work with the "fixed bits"

In this case the car is certainly a complete write off

 

[Cyker]

Well I would take that article with a grain of salt; It's pretty much just conjecture, more sensationalist clickbait than any new facts. 

[fourbanks]

it's also hard to believe that the skilled workers in Japan would continue to build that many cars without anyone speaking up, as this isn't right, we need to stop. As i said above, hairline cracks in the metal castings could well indeed go unnoticed, but there again the X-rays of those parts would have shown up at some point 

if it is just wheel related, then all you would need to do is to replace the wheels and rotors and possibly to be extra safe the wheel bearing and ball joints. One day's work per car. That should suffice, i would have thought with your money back if purchased who were not happy with that

scrapping the lot is a bit over the top, i think, considering the test drive reports are in general good 

the chief executive and directors of course could be well like myself a bit over the top looking for perfection when in reality it doesn't exist 

[forkingabout]

Could require something as simple to fix as left hand threaded wheel bolts on one side - worked for Rolls Royce back in the day.

[kingrikk]

Just to remind everyone that the pandemic is still ongoing and this affects the ability to react quickly. Also, the US has “lemon laws” which kick in after a month, hence why Toyota sent this letter so they’re in control of that situation.

The delay and buyback offer doesn’t mean that the car is unfixable or that Toyota don’t have a solution. It just means that it’s taken more than a month to fix and people in the US like taking legal action.

Take every sensationalist article on this topic with a pinch of salt. It’s just people looking for clicks.