SUV to Corolla TS

[50p]

I seem to remember a certain Suzuki model had to have stablisers to stop it tipping over when cornering ...

[TonyHSD]

21 minutes ago, Arita said:

Or to do a Corolla TS/RAV4 comparison though I do not know if they share anything:

 

They don’t share a bit these two models although suspension configurations are similar. Always an suv will be more prone to issues caused by higher centre of gravity in comparison with lower standard cars, it’s just a physics. 👍 SUV’s has their advantages though and suit many owners who live in harsh conditions, use the cars for transporting goods, drive through terrains like forest , national parks , fields etc. The higher clearance and eventually an awd system help a lot in these situations. The problem is that most of the owners especially in UK and many more eu countries never needed any suv because they had never used as their intended purpose, they never even set a tyre on the grass or dirt, it’s simply a trend that will start to disappear. MPV though are different, they are easier to get use as intended as they are made for more people and luggage while been used in towns and cities, basically what most  people ever needed, more cubic feet interior, not higher ground clearance. These categories are making their way back now. It’s pretty much like the use of pick up trucks in uk by many traders, absolutely not necessary, they are just showing off, a white van would have do it better and cheaper.
Here is why Corolla Trek is the best choice for anyone who is coming from an suv or simply need that extra 2.5cm ground clearance not to be worried when taking the car out of his incline driveway, going into petrol stations with sloppy entrance or driving a mile on dirty road to get into his cottage located in the valley of a secluded village  👍

[Arita]

See that's the thing: if you need on a daily basis to go on gravel etc I think there are different options that are better suited for that. It's like the X6 not being able to go up a slight slope on grass... And what we haven't discussed is the false feeling of feeling more secure when driving, that for some drivers (thankfully not the most) is like removing some layers of fear and believing they are invincible, but oh well, it happens as well with some BMW and Audi drivers so it can't be SUV specific 😂

[Cyker]

5 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

How are they less safe?  

The safety thing is mostly an illusion - The idea is that in a collision the bigger heavier car will come off better, but ironically it's easier to make a smaller car stronger - The bigger the car the more metal you need to get the same strength.

Because of this they're also heavier which means braking distances are worse, cornering grip is worse and as people have already said they're more likely to roll or get flipped over as the collision with the Evoq and the GR4 aptly demonstrates. In their heads they'll plough through the smaller car and escape unscathed, which may be true of older cars, but not modern ones, which effectively have a reinforced armoured cocoon around the driver and passengers to get the high EuroNCAP ratings! 

The higher driving position would give the driver a better view to spot problems further up the road, but since SUVs are so prolific this has been blunted somewhat, and in my experience SUV drivers are some of the least attentive so again advantage is lost. They also seem to loose close-in vision judging by how many seem I see clip bollards and wing mirrors.

But SUVs aren't just less safe for the people in them, they'e also less safe for everyone around them as that extra mass is more energy that needs to be dissipated in a collision, and there is a much higher chance of a fatality when an SUV hits a pedestrian or other vulnerable road user.

I've always been very much an opponent of them, esp as so many solo people inexplicably drive them in the tight narrow streets of London where something like my Yaris would be far superior as a mode of transport.

Actually I tell I lie it's not inexplicable - It's genital compensation; London being London, people have to show off with the most ostentatious vehicle they can afford (Or not afford in many cases) and the cheapest way to do that is with a giant land boat hausfrauenpanzer I mean SUV.

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

I did have a SUV, the Honda CRV previous to the Yaris,6 years old when I bought it so not hugely expensive, so not showy offy.

But for reasons that were applicable at the time, and those reasons became redundant.

I suppose one of the reasons I enjoy driving the Yaris around so much is inverted snobbery, it's old, it's not worth much, it's paid for.

And in my opinion it's still a much better car than many of today's offerings from major car makers with options costing more than my car is worth.

That said, I am still interested in hearing about modern cars with new technology, even though they may not suit me, such as a hovering finger required to scroll through 20 sub menus to adjust the heating or radio volume while driving 😄 only joking, I know it's not that bad,is it ?

 

[Yugguy1970]

Hmm.

I used to be the same, an absolute SUV hater.  Until I test drove a 2020 RAV4.  It DOESN'T roll any more than a standard hatch.  They are all hybrid so they all have low centre of gravity due to the batteries.  It's no bigger on the road than say a 5 series touring or other big estate, in fact it's narrower than a lot of those.

Corolla Cross is 1 inch wider than the estate but 1 inch shorter.

Ncap for the rav4:  https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/toyota/rav4/35881

Ncap for the corolla hatch:  https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/toyota/corolla/35878

Not a lot of difference there - 1% less safe for pedestrians.

 

I do find the argument against SUVs to be one of emotion rather than judgement.  

[APS]

3 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I do find the argument against SUVs to be one of emotion rather than judgement. 

I'd say the arguments for SUVs are mostly emotional. People like the image of a bigger car and the rugged looks. The facts would stack up against it though:

- SUVs ride higher, by design, which increases air drag (RAV4 sits at a Cd of 0.32, BMW G series touring at 0.28 - same as the Honda Insight)

- SUVs are generally heavier - due to taller body, and additional drive gear (where applicable), and larger wheels

- Higher centre of gravity (RAV4 famously failed the elk test, this was later fixed with software to stabilise it through braking)

These are indisputable facts. As a consequence they are less fuel efficient and less stable. That said, for when you need off road ability and going over rough terrain, they are essential. 

For the vast majority of people, who spend 99.99% of time driving on roads, the off road abilities are superfluous. Choosing an SAV is more about image and a feeling of safety - i.e. an emotional choice. 

[50p]

44 minutes ago, APS said:

For the vast majority of people, who spend 99.99% of time driving on roads, the off road abilities are superfluous. Choosing an SAV is more about image and a feeling of safety - i.e. an emotional choice. 

Maybe they go 'off road' to park on the pavement as they are too big to park in the road? 🤣

[Yugguy1970]

Every car is bought emotionally, if they weren't, Audi wouldn't sell any.  And yep, I do like the chunky styling of the RAV.   Why would I or anyone else buy a car they didn't like the look of?

My Focus STLX had some form of electronic suspension control, like 90% of new cars these days. 

My RAV may be less fuel efficient than the Corolla I first looked at, but I'm getting 15mpg more than the Focus it replaced, so go me, I am causing less pollution.

It goes round corners as fast as I ever want to go, and it doesn't roll.  I was amazed frankly when I first drove one.

I'm sure some people enjoy being bigger and being able to bully but they would do that in any car.  I don't, but yes, I do like that I am less bothered with tailgaters than I am in the Yaris.

As for emotion against SUVs, Tyre Extinguishers targetting "gas guzzling SUVs".  Except most of the ones they hit recently were hybrid or electric. 

You never see them targetting 4.0 V8 BMW estates though.  Why not?  There are so many other cars that are far worse mpg than a hybrid SUV, so many other cars that are just boughtas a status symbol, but none attract the irrational hatred that SUVs do.

You never see them letting the tyres down on the local drug-dealer's Range Rover either, funnily enough.

 

 

[Arita]

Is the RAV4 a SUV though? Or is it a crossover... See, that's another thing, dunno where to put which haha.

 

Talking about emotions, if you make all the SUVs and all HB/TS the same and then looked at the facts, that still remains valid. As we said, they are not for everybody, but the problem is that people that do not need them and do not really know how to handle them choose SUV more and more and sometimes is a bit... meh. A friend of mine bought a Lexus NX and when I asked why she said "the bigger the better, safer". Ok... just say you like how it looks and that's it.

[APS]

1 minute ago, Arita said:

Is the RAV4 a SUV though? Or is it a crossover... See, that's another thing, dunno where to put which haha

RAV4 was the car that more or less defined the segment back in the mid 90's. 

[TonyHSD]

2 minutes ago, Arita said:

Is the RAV4 a SUV though? Or is it a crossover... See, that's another thing, dunno where to put which haha.

 

Talking about emotions, if you make all the SUVs and all HB/TS the same and then looked at the facts, that still remains valid. As we said, they are not for everybody, but the problem is that people that do not need them and do not really know how to handle them choose SUV more and more and sometimes is a bit... meh. A friend of mine bought a Lexus NX and when I asked why she said "the bigger the better, safer". Ok... just say you like how it looks and that's it.

That’s right . A friend of mine bought a pick up truck from a lady from Croydon that used the L200 for school runs 😂, The good thing is the truck was like new without even a single scratch on it. Later that truck went to live it’s life into a deep forest in a mountain region, it’s got used properly, not sure if still remains unscratched though 😂🏁👌 

[TonyHSD]

Rav is an suv, and it’s good for what it is. Crossovers are the one that are suitable for jumping over speed bumps but can easily make you sea sick if you go through many roundabouts. 😂👌

[Cyker]

The original RAV4 was tiinnny... it was almost a kei-car SUV! I actually quite liked them as they were very capable off-road but didn't take up the whole street. Supposedly it was basically a Celica GT4 with a different body on it!

Sadly it's been eating far too many doughnuts or something and is now bigger than an old Land Cruiser (Which itself is now so big I actually get a bit scared being near one  ), and they've had to add new models to fill in the void it's left  

 

23 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

That said, I am still interested in hearing about modern cars with new technology, even though they may not suit me, such as a hovering finger required to scroll through 20 sub menus to adjust the heating or radio volume while driving 😄 only joking, I know it's not that bad,is it ?

Well... it is if you have one of these no-button EVs like the Tesla  

You actually have to go through the menus to change the windscreen wiper settings!!!  

I think the Tesla tech is very cool but the driver interface is awful and IMHO actually dangerous as you have to take your eyes off the road and focus on the touchscreen for significant amounts of time to do anything, even to adjust the direction the air is being blown!

It's just tech for tech's sake, no thought to ergonomics or practicality.

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

It looks like the Tesla is off my list then if it becomes necessary to replace my Yaris.😂

Apart from the 50 grand or so.

[Cyker]

Get a Mk4!!!  

(Or a GR4! But I think the waiting list for those spans to the next epoch...!  )

[Arita]

15 hours ago, APS said:

RAV4 was the car that more or less defined the segment back in the mid 90's. 

Got this as a rental in Zanzibar and it was perfect for the island and smaller than some cars but today's RAV4 looks massive on a road comparing it to the old one! Maybe is just my perception as I haven't driven one of the new ones myself.

15 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Rav is an suv, and it’s good for what it is. Crossovers are the one that are suitable for jumping over speed bumps but can easily make you sea sick if you go through many roundabouts. 😂👌

Gotta love your definition of crossover HAHAHA.

[Yugguy1970]

To be fair, every car in its next iteration is bigger than the one before.  My 2019 Focus wasn't far off the size of my F-i-L's 2008 Mondeo.

[Yugguy1970]

Cool article about the Yaris down the years.

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-yaris-history/