RAV4 PHEV Domestic 3Pin Plug Charging

[marlinleg]

Hello to one and all. Quick question . Can I charge the RAV4  PHEV from a domestic plug yes it will take a lot longer . Plus has any forum member done this or is doing this .Toyota EU Web site "you can recharge a car like the rav4 PHEV from a domestic power supply (10A) in 7.5 hours"

https://www.toyota-europe.com/world-of-toyota/electrified/plugin-hybrid/how-do-I-charge-a-plugin-hybrid

 Thank you 

[Hayzee]

Hi Phillip

Quite a few PHEV owners (including myself) us the supplied 'Granny' charger cable to charge the traction Battery from a standard 13A socket. It charges at around 2.4kw so would take around 6-7 hours to fully charge from zero. Typically I don't do more than 25-30 miles most days so rarely need to charge overnight, just a few hours early evening.

 

 

[ernieb]

From fully flay (not true as there is usually around 30% left for HEV mode) it takes 7 hours 40 mins. It's not linear and dependent on ambient temperature, temperature of the traction Battery and if you have the heating cooling set on for the Battery. It's an easy over night job and I set mine to be available at a time for me to drive the car so it starts the charge taking into account the above to meet that time schedule. I find it best if you want to use the whilst it's charging just open the car door, the charging stops and disconnect the cable rather than switch it off at the mains.

[marlinleg]

Thank you Colin very helpful being retired I only do around 100 miles  a week  which includes a fishing trip of 60 miles return  and 40 miles each way at the weekend to my partners she would let me charge at her house so looking good. How are finding your RAV4 PHEV I am aware of the increased road tax 

[marlinleg]

Thank you Ernie

[Hayzee]

11 minutes ago, marlinleg said:

Thank you Colin very helpful being retired I only do around 100 miles  a week  which includes a fishing trip of 60 miles return  and 40 miles each way at the weekend to my partners she would let me charge at her house so looking good. How are finding your RAV4 PHEV I am aware of the increased road tax 

Phillip

It's an ideal car for me, as I rarely exceed the traction Battery range, it's like running a pure electric vehicle for the majority of the time. I have had the car since March this year and completed a few 200+ mile journeys and can say that fuel economy has been around 50 MPG each time (obviously depends on the weight of your right foot etc). Overall I am finding the car a joy to drive and own. It is the first Toyota I have owned (previously Volvo XC60) and it has generally exceeded my expections.

[ernieb]

Phillip, the best car I've owned, certainly in recent years.  The average 45 miles on EV over the year gives a reasonable balance of local mileage and a good start to longer trips. I'm retired and most of my miles are local and virtually covered by the EV and even on reasonably longer trip of 115 miles with mostly 60mph for 100 miles I get HEV mode returns of high '70 to mid '80mpg. It's very dependant on terrain, speed, wind and temperature and your right foot pressure on the go peddle (the usual with any car). It's remarkable just how often the car is able to recover energy and the MyT app map traces of a typical HEV mode trip show a considerable amount of EV use even when the traction Battery switches for EV to HEV mode.

Typical EV mode range now when it's warm is low to mid '50's.

[NASY]

Phillip, also retired and average trips are around 40 miles at a time so like others the car is always EV. Recently had a holiday with longer trips which needed petrol, great not to have to find a charger, economy 50 mpg plus. Great car which if you drive it within its comfort zone is really rewarding, not so much about driving more about operating it which results in a very calm experience 

[marlinleg]

NASY rav4 = wafting  a long 🙂

[marlinleg]

Thank you all for your replies please keep them coming 👏👏

[nlee]

I had a wall charging point installed but only to take advantage of cheaper electricity rates and future proofing for possible EV purchase in future. As others have said, perfectly fine on the 3 pin and plenty of time to charge overnight. 

It's a great car, I love it. The app is a bit flaky but that's only a small supplementary feature and hopefully will get updated over time. Can't really find any other annoyances.

[ernieb]

Philip, this is my typical longer run which I did today and gives some idea on how good the car can be. The EV range with A/C was suggested at 56 miles in fact it turned to HEV mode after around 45 miles. The image gives you some idea of the rest of the trip. (The consumption figure includes the 45 miles of EV so is biased high, if I do a calculation the actual ICE consumption is around 54 mpg - still a good figure in my mind)

[Mike2222]

As others have said, phenomenal vehicle for vast majority of use-cases that occur in day to day life, for vast majority of general public. As an alternative viewpoint to the retirees, I also find it a remarkably capable vehicle. I have young family (3yr & 1yr olds), and majority of week is wife's car, but if needed is also capable of managing my commute entirely on electric in all UK seasonal temps. And it is an excellent steed for long schelps, filled the the gills with children's/holiday paraphernalia - comfy, quiet, capable, and good ICE fuel economy for a big heavy bluff-fronted suv. Between this, Toyota's rep for longterm reliability, and an "up to" 10yr warranty, I find myself oddly lacking in the car-envy that I used to have when spotting various "premium" vehicles on others' driveways. One might perceive this as a bit smug, but tbh is more a feeling of understated confidence that I won't need to faff around in the (insanely inflating) market for a new/replacement vehicle for potentially a very long time. 

 

As @ernieb has said, you can rely on about 40-45miles of range on sub-motorway/dual-carriageway speeds even in winter. Only caveats to that relate to cabin-heating requirements in proper sub-zero starts (unless you set preconditioning timer to be ready before departure, in which case car will heat with electric/heat pump only), or if the car's ECU decides the engine oil needs circulating due to lack of use (maybe every month or so), or fuel in tank is old enough to risk going bad if not used (I haven't seen this happen myself, but theoretically might if haven't needed to refuel in ~4-6months), in which case the car will automatically engage the ICE for a computer-decided period of time.

 

With regards the granny charging. Anecdotally, *loads* of people will swear blind that this has been perfectly fine for them for years, with all manner of BEVs & PHEVs, however if you listen to the opinions of electricians, most seem to give very rational non-scare-mongering reasons why this isn't an entirely safe plan. I can't remember specific phrasing but in simple terms, the combination of old UK housing stock often has fairly inadequate wiring quality by modern standards, and drawing max power from a single plug socket for hours on end, when plugs sockets are wiring in rings (ie many sockets on one circuit breaker/fuse) equals a lot of heat and potential fire risk, plus UK earthing is centralised (ie relatively few houses have a dedicated earthing arrangement) so if someone digging in your neighborhood damages the main community earthing cable then your cars chassis may become live to anyone/thing that touches it (!). IIRC, you can mitigate some of he risks by having a leccy install a single outside socket on a dedicated/standalone RCD for your charging purposes, tho a full wallbox will often have special earthing fault detections as well. Permanently using granny cable seems to be one of those "it's very unlikely to happen, but if it does it can be catastrophic". 

[marlinleg]

Mike2222 thank you very helpful .a good friend of mine is the manager of an electrical firm and his 2 sons are leccys they will check my bungalow out . Reading all these wonderful reply's thank you all again pleas keep the reply's coming 👏👏

[marlinleg]

Ernieb thank your post answered a lot o my questions

[Lawnmowerman]

Fantastic car. Hard to underestimate how much better it is than the (already brilliant) HEV. To be able to use it as an electric for such mileage is exceptional. Other brands seriously short-change their owners in terms of electric use as against manufacturer's claims.

Oh, and it is a real sleeper. When needed, it really is a Rocket Ship 😄.

[Hayzee]

1 hour ago, Mike2222 said:

Permanently using granny cable seems to be one of those "it's very unlikely to happen, but if it does it can be catastrophic".

Can't say I've heard of any such catastrophies, but maybe they have happened. The granny charger pulls a max of 2.4kw and 10A both tapering off towards the end of the charge. I use a heavy duty extension cable (fit for purpose) with built in RCD protection in the plug, so I feel pretty comfortable using it for the forseeable future. Neither the charger or plug feel very warm when charged.

[ernieb]

I’ve connected mine via a dedicated fused spur via a Masterplug box,

https://www.screwfix.com/p/masterplug-mode-2-charger-1-port-2-3kw-mode-2-uk-3-pin-plug-mode-2-domestic-ev-charging-station/512gv

https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/custom/upload/attachments/products/1/bge_evh132s1spa.pdf

 

[philip42h]

4 hours ago, Mike2222 said:

With regards the granny charging.  ...   Permanently using granny cable seems to be one of those "it's very unlikely to happen, but if it does it can be catastrophic". 

That all sounds a little paranoid ...

Obviously, if your house wiring and/or distribution box are old and dangerous you'd be well advised to invest in rewiring before spending money on a PHEV or EV (or pretty much anything else to be honest).

But if your house has reasonably modern wiring and a distribution board with trips rather than ancient fuses I really can't see any issue with recharging a PHEV overnight via a 13A socket (drawing no more than 10A). A typical ring main is design to deliver around 30A. The 10A required by the PHEV is no more than would be required by the average washing machine, tumble drier or dishwasher and less than the average kettle or plug-in radiator / heater. Obviously there is a 'risk' that there isn't 10A spare on a particular ring but then the trip will 'trip' and no real harm done. And, overnight, there is a good chance that the main will be pretty well underused anyway.

If you are already fully using the available ring main then of course it makes sense to add an extra ring, or dedicated spur - but if you need to do something like that you might just as well go for a full 32A charger (if you can).

[ernieb]

Mine is always scheduled to charge over night and in our house everything is virtually in standby mode.

[Mike2222]

4 hours ago, philip42h said:

That all sounds a little paranoid ...

I don't honestly expect my house to fall down from some random freak occurrence, but I still am perfectly content to purchase home insurance every year without feeling that it is unnecessary or an overreaction. 

 

As mentioned in the post, I am simply relaying the opinions I have heard about perennially utilising the granny charger. I have heard [mostly in EV forums] plenty of people saying they have used it for years without even a hint of an issue. I have also heard many opinions from persons professing to be trained in this field, expressing reservations about such practices [again, mostly on EV forums]. This doesn't mean I am professing to be any authority on the matter, just in general I tend to listen when people who come across as knowing what they're talking about give a well reasoned and understandable argument that resonates with my overall understanding of physics etc. 

 

As far as comparing the granny to various white goods or a kettle - they are never required to draw full power continuously for hours on end, so the comparison is invalid. The term "granny" as I understand it, is so called under the idea that in general it should be reserved for occasional use, ie when visiting granny out in the sticks and you need a bit of a top up to get home. 

 

That's my two cents. I'm not judging anyone who chooses to use it regularly/all the time, just expressing an opinion. 

 

8 hours ago, marlinleg said:

a good friend of mine is the manager of an electrical firm and his 2 sons are leccys they will check my bungalow out

IMO this is a good idea 👍

[ernieb]

I think the granny cable title is more to do with it being the slowest form of EV charger.

[Mike2222]

23 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I think the granny cable title is more to do with it being the slowest form of EV charger.

I have also heard that origin story 👍

... It's just the other theory served my point better 😂

[nlee]

[marlinleg]

Hello to one and all. I have just been to my Toyota Dealership and booked a test drive tomorrow 12 July in the RAV4 PHEV I will post my views tomorrow Thank you