Mandatory speed limiters now a requirement..........

[Janx1975]

Hi,

I have just been told about a law I had no idea about that could be another reason for delays - speed limiters are to be fitted on all cars sold 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/news/mandatory-speed-limiters-on-uk-cars-from-2022

Now would this be on new cars built after 6th July or any car built but not taken ownership of until after July 6th?

My car has had its delivery to dealer from "Left factory" stage delayed by 15 days, could this be the reason?

 

Anyone have any better insight?

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

24 minutes ago, Janx1975 said:

My car has had its delivery to dealer from "Left factory" stage delayed by 15 days, could this be the reason?

No.

This has been around for a couple of years. Speed limiters are being introduced from this month for cars with new Type Approval awarded from 6th July 2022. 

New cars models with Type Approval awarded before this date and purchased from 6th July 2024 will need to be fitted with speed limiters from 6th July 2024.

So for example the Aygo X and BZ4X which have gone on sale this year, will have had their Type Approval awarded before July 2022, and production models won't legally be required to have speed limiters until 2024.

[Roy124]

I believe this is an EU requirement but the UK position is to accept the regulation rather than try and insist on a UK only specification. 

A question under is discussion is whether its activation would be automatic, as in the EU, or optional. 

Either way, in practical terms, near universal use might not be until 2040 given the life expectation of modern cars. It could certainly impact on high speed motorway traffic much earlier as I guess such drivers tend to drive newer models. 

I can see issues initially from poor signage, out of date Satnav, mixed wuth/without traffic etc. I report obscured or damaged signage whenever I can. 

[Janx1975]

20 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No.

This has been around for a couple of years. Speed limiters are being introduced from this month for cars with new Type Approval awarded from 6th July 2022. 

New cars models with Type Approval awarded before this date and purchased from 6th July 2024 will need to be fitted with speed limiters from 6th July 2024.

So for example the Aygo X and BZ4X which have gone on sale this year, will have had their Type Approval awarded before July 2022, and production models won't legally be required to have speed limiters until 2024.

Thanks Mike, that explains it perfectly!

[Cyker]

I just hope they make the system in newer cars more accurate - If the limiter in mine was enforced I probably would have been in a massive accident by now as it's just not fit for purpose when it routinely does stupid stuff like display 120mph speed limit in a 20 zone or 40mph or even 10mph limit on the motorway!

They're just not fit for purpose as they currently are, not even close!

The one sensible thing is the enforced ones still supposedly allow you to override the speed limit by pushing the accelerator more, but hopefully as an override that works better than the override for the auto-brake system (Which doesn't  work!!)

[RickyC]

I think that the term "speed limiter" is not correct.  It should be "speed limit warning" because its only warns you're going too fast but it doesn't cut the car speed. 

If you enable the speed limiter function of the car it limits the maximum speed you can reach even if you continue to push the accelerator.  

[FROSTYBALLS]

Actually called Intelligent Speed Assistance, and, depending on the system installed, may slow down the vehicle by reducing fuel flow. See:

Intelligent speed assistance: everything you need to know | Autocar

[Starensis]

System will only be as good as what the car sees - e.g. sign posts or rear of wagons. But, I would imagine there’s a connection to a database from car which confirms speed limit?

[TonyHSD]

The system most likely will not be entirely based on road signs , it will compare to databases from maps, maps updates for road works in the area , road closers etc. I think it’s a good , very good idea but all vehicles should have it, not only latest ones. Often I see furious drivers overtaking me in anger just because I comply with the rules and drive within the limits. 

[Cyker]

7 hours ago, RickyC said:

I think that the term "speed limiter" is not correct.  It should be "speed limit warning" because its only warns you're going too fast but it doesn't cut the car speed. 

If you enable the speed limiter function of the car it limits the maximum speed you can reach even if you continue to push the accelerator.  

I'm not talking about the ones in the Mk4, but what's been mandated for future cars, which are *actual* speed limiters.

 

15 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

The system most likely will not be entirely based on road signs , it will compare to databases from maps, maps updates for road works in the area , road closers etc. I think it’s a good , very good idea but all vehicles should have it, not only latest ones. Often I see furious drivers overtaking me in anger just because I comply with the rules and drive within the limits. 

This is the crux of the problem - It's the people that generally obey the law which will get disadvantaged by this; The ones that don't will either remove them or buy cars that aren't subject to them.

This is why I think it's just a stupid idea - They should be removing such drivers, not implementing increasingly half-assed failure-prone contrivances to try and stop the minority.

I'm very much of the opinion that a driving licence is a privilege, not a right, and if they feel they have to put in such systems for all drivers, really that means they need to take a long hard look at why they're giving licences to the minority they are targetting with these systems, instead of blanket penalizing everyone.

They also should set sensible speed-limits in the first place; This trend of lowering of speed limits really annoys me as it just encourages more and more people to break the limit, then they get used to it and the start breaking it habitually.

Examples are random 40mph zones on 'smart' motorways, the proliferation of 20mph speed limits on roads easily wide enough to 4 cars abreast (I have been overtaken by busses and taxies when such a road initially had its limit changed from 30mph to 20mph!)

Also so many of my fun NSL roads have had 50 or even 40mph limits put on them for no reason! They're wide open sweeping roads!

They need to understand thatSpeed itself is not dangerous - CHANGES in speed are dangerous! That's why motorways generally had less accidents than urban roads (at least until Smart Motorways became a thing and they started randomly changing speed limits all the time for no reason; Now the M25 sections near me regularly get closed at least once a fortnight due to an incident - This was not a thing before Smart Motorways...)

 

[Starensis]

18 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I'm not talking about the ones in the Mk4, but what's been mandated for future cars, which are *actual* speed limiters.

 

This is the crux of the problem - It's the people that generally obey the law which will get disadvantaged by this; The ones that don't will either remove them or buy cars that aren't subject to them.

This is why I think it's just a stupid idea - They should be removing such drivers, not implementing increasingly half-assed failure-prone contrivances to try and stop the minority.

I'm very much of the opinion that a driving licence is a privilege, not a right, and if they feel they have to put in such systems for all drivers, really that means they need to take a long hard look at why they're giving licences to the minority they are targetting with these systems, instead of blanket penalizing everyone.

They also should set sensible speed-limits in the first place; This trend of lowering of speed limits really annoys me as it just encourages more and more people to break the limit, then they get used to it and the start breaking it habitually.

Examples are random 40mph zones on 'smart' motorways, the proliferation of 20mph speed limits on roads easily wide enough to 4 cars abreast (I have been overtaken by busses and taxies when such a road initially had its limit changed from 30mph to 20mph!)

Also so many of my fun NSL roads have had 50 or even 40mph limits put on them for no reason! They're wide open sweeping roads!

They need to understand thatSpeed itself is not dangerous - CHANGES in speed are dangerous! That's why motorways generally had less accidents than urban roads (at least until Smart Motorways became a thing and they started randomly changing speed limits all the time for no reason; Now the M25 sections near me regularly get closed at least once a fortnight due to an incident - This was not a thing before Smart Motorways...)

 

Agree, smart motorways are……….not very smart are they! 

[Roy124]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Often I see furious drivers overtaking me in anger just because I comply with the rules and drive within the limits. 

If I drive at 33 indicated I find I am tailgate less than if I drive at 40 feet per second rather than 44.  The 40 fps is the speed the car thinks is 30 mph. 

If I drive through a village at an indicate 30 for 2 minutes and let the speeder through, I would like to ask them what they plan to do with the 11 seconds saved. 

[Cyker]

That's the one good thing about the virtually non-existent rear visibility of the Mk4 - I don't even know when I'm being tailgated most of the time  

[Derek.w]

I am used to mine not displaying the speed limit for the road I am on until I pass a speed sinage it not reliant an the sat nav system just road speed limits but not tempory roadworks ones.

It displays the speed of the road and is red if you over the speed limit but then again it somtimes red when I am under the speed limit.

This is the current system with no throttling back applied.

Its not perfect once it showed a maxium speed over 70 MPH but this I ignored.

[Yugguy1970]

I don't want it, not because I want to speed but because I don't want to suddenly be doing 20mph on a dual carriageway because it's picked up the sign and gps of a side road.

The tech is simply not good enough for it to be mandatory and I really don't want yet another wretched bong when it gets it wrong constantly.

[Roy124]

Yug, exactly. I was going to say 'I wait for the first accident......' but on reflection there have already been several. 

I can imagine "I was driving down this road so the speed limit of 70.  I could there were no vehicles apart from the one I was following.  Suddenly it slowed for no apparent reason." 

Of course guilty of driving without care and attention, but wholly to blame? 

Mind you, if he was using ACC and a Toyota it would probably have stopped 😁

[Guest]

22 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Intelligent Speed Assistance

Anything devised by humans, including the word "Intelligence" and relying on a computer to decide, scares me!

[Cyker]

The words do seem to have taken on the opposite meaning; Whenever I see something labelled as Intelligent or Smart I find it's very much the opposite!  

[TonyHSD]

You both actually are right. 👍

[Hornet3D]

It will penalise all the drivers with cars carrying this tech......well except  those that find or buy a way of defeating it.  Just like those that remove the catalytic converter for all of their driving only to put it back for the MOT and lorry drivers that have fitted a device to foil the tachometer that should ensure the stick to the rules.  As with all such plans it will have no effect on those that are intent on breaking the law but add yet another device to fail for the law abiding drivers.

[Cyker]

Exactly my view - Will just punish law-abiding drivers and have no effect on the habitual law-breakers. It's just an utterly stupid waste of technology and resources.

This is a driver problem - it should be fixed by retraining or removal. At the rate they keep adding these things, people will start to ask why should you even need a driving licence when the car is handling it all anyway?

This is the problem with the people who are up there in their ivory towers making these rules - They just don't understand the consequences of what, on the surface and given no deeper thought, seems like a good idea.

All they are doing is encouraging people to break the law. It's like Smart Motorways - These are actively teaching drivers to ignore speed limits and lane closure signs because they are on for no reason more than not, and as soon as one person looses patience and decides to ignore the lane closure it encourages everyone else who've been stuck in the jam for ages to do the same, and so many times they've gotten away with it because there was no obstruction, and so this just reinforces that behaviour!

Everything is just all stick and no carrot. This is not how you encourage a desired set of behaviour. What it encourages is rebellion.

 

[flash22]

It's not a physical speed limiter, more of a constant nagging beep, based on GPS and RSA, it will require updating daily I cant see it being viable, it will soon have its workarounds

do you really think they will restrict a car's speed, it's a major safety issue, many situations require the need to get you out of situation

[Hornet3D]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Exactly my view - Will just punish law-abiding drivers and have no effect on the habitual law-breakers. It's just an utterly stupid waste of technology and resources.

This is a driver problem - it should be fixed by retraining or removal. At the rate they keep adding these things, people will start to ask why should you even need a driving licence when the car is handling it all anyway?

This is the problem with the people who are up there in their ivory towers making these rules - They just don't understand the consequences of what, on the surface and given no deeper thought, seems like a good idea.

All they are doing is encouraging people to break the law. It's like Smart Motorways - These are actively teaching drivers to ignore speed limits and lane closure signs because they are on for no reason more than not, and as soon as one person looses patience and decides to ignore the lane closure it encourages everyone else who've been stuck in the jam for ages to do the same, and so many times they've gotten away with it because there was no obstruction, and so this just reinforces that behaviour!

Everything is just all stick and no carrot. This is not how you encourage a desired set of behaviour. What it encourages is rebellion.

 

Well an investigation found that around 40% of those broken down in smart motorways are not picked up by the tech that is supposed to find them.  Of course the only thing you can do after a report like this is just increase the number of smart motorways with no changes.  Total waste of money and time doing the investigation.  Until those that make these decisions are made to be responsible for their crass judgements it will never change.  A few high profile prosecutions under the cooperate manslaughter laws would change things but we will continue to reward failure and wonder why the everything is costing more both in pounds and lives lost.

[Guest]

Off topic somewhat but it's not always the "smart" technology at fault.

Earlier this month, when driving between jct 15 and 16 (M6 north) there was a lorry fire, just north of 15. It was actually the rear of a curtain side trailer. The driver had sensibly parked on the hard shoulder and disconnected the tractor unit. That could have been fantastic further north without a hard shoulder.

Anyway, my punchline! Someone in a control centre had set speed reductions on the overhead gantries way north of the incident. The first 60mph and finally 40mph just before jct 16.

So it does sometimes need technology to assist "smart" humans!

[RickyC]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:58 PM, Cyker said:

I'm not talking about the ones in the Mk4, but what's been mandated for future cars, which are *actual* speed limiters.

AFAIK it will not limit speed by cutting car performance but simly will stress driver with alerts ( lights, beep, vibrations ) to inviite him to reduce speed.  Like driving without locking the seat belts.  You can drive but car drives you crazy with beep beep beep.....

If car automatically adapts speed to road signs there's a serius risk to reiceive visits in the back expecially if it makes a wrong evaluation of correct speed ( and I think that is not too far from reality ) and suddenly brakes.