Toyota Corolla 1.8 TS tyre choice

[bunnyrabbit03]

I have the CC2 and I find them very comfortable. However, I was wondering about the load index, as this is higher than the OEM tyres (94 vs 91). The advice I got was that the tyre pressure should be higher. So I use the recommended tyre pressures for higher speeds (if I remember correctly, it is 2.8 bar at the front, 2.7 bar at the rear). 

[Kental]

Tony, I in the past have found cars can act strange after having tyres changed as the car can take time to settle after having the wheels dangling in the air.

[TonyHSD]

Thanks guys, 

there are some good and some bad news to report. 
Last night the car was more comfortable and less crashy over cracks and potholes after tyre pressures were adjusted, I also noticed less harshness from suspension, the silicone on the bushings does make a change.
Although the stiffness of the tyres remain and I can feel it even it’s not as pronounced as before.
Perhaps how your feel your new tyres depending on what tyres (make, model, type etc) you had driven the car before. The truth is that coming from  a Goodyear efficient grip performance - the tyres with the softer side walls,  only few can make a positive impressions, however my winter tyres did each time I had them on the car even though they were on larger size wheels and low profile tyre sizes plus they were XL (extra load spec) , non of these Goodyear’s in question are , and I am glad I didn’t order 94V , as I could imagine would have been a disaster. 

For everyone who follows, I understood why all season tyres can have these strange characteristics and here it is :

-simply because they represent two tyres in one package:

 ( winter + summer= all season tyre). 

All season tyres have the softer tread pattern rubber similar to proper winter tyres which on top of obvious to provide great grip in slippery conditions they also deliver reduced road noise especially driving over rough asphalt and reduced vibrations too. 
These tyres are also designed to be on the car all year around and so on their summer use prospective and to be able to provide dry handling similar to summer tyres and reduced fuel consumption the side walls on all season tyres are made from stronger materials in comparison with typical winter tyres or summer touring tyres. And here it is the reason why they feel a bit on the harder side in comparison with winter or summer touring tyres. Goodyear and Michelin does not keep quiet about that, they even explained on their tyres websites.: 

https://www.goodyear.eu/en_ie/consumer/tires/vector_4seasons_gen-3.VEC4SEASG3.html

https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-crossclimate-2

 

 

[Kental]

Tony

Are the all season tyres on the 16" or 17" wheels?

[Kental]

I think my order is 225 45 17 94 W Vector 4 season G3 XL, they are due to be fitted 15/10/22

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Kental said:

Tony

Are the all season tyres on the 16" or 17" wheels?

Both summer and All season Goodyear tyres were fitted to the same 16” wheels.
Both sets of tyres have exactly the same specs on the side walls :

 205/55 R16 91V , tread wear , temperature, load, construction details are exactly the same, but when hold and lift the summer tyres by the rim they even stretch open, so soft walls, while when you lift the all season they stay stiffer then the summer tyre. Also when on the car inflated to the same pressures the all season doesn’t bulge as much as the summer.  Here some pictures: If your all season are xl don’t worry , they are lower profile and likely not to be offered in standard load spec, this was the case with my winter 17” tyres size 215/45 R 17 91V extra load , with these tyres the car was the smoothest , the softest and the quietest ever. And I had many different tyres: 

On 17” wheels: 

Michelin Primacy oem Good summer tyres 

Kumho Ecsta HS51 Also excellent summer tyres 

Nexen Winguard Sport 2 - great winter tyres 

Goodyear efficient grip performance 1 

 

On 16” wheels: 

Goodyear efficient grip performance 2 - the best summer tyres 

Goodyear vector 4 season gen 3 - currently driving, absolutely great tyres with one small exception for me, reduced comfort a bit, but this could be me, the car, the pressures or all combined together. It’s about time to find out, but my theory for stiffness stays. 👍

[TonyHSD]

16 hours ago, bunnyrabbit03 said:

I have the CC2 and I find them very comfortable. However, I was wondering about the load index, as this is higher than the OEM tyres (94 vs 91). The advice I got was that the tyre pressure should be higher. So I use the recommended tyre pressures for higher speeds (if I remember correctly, it is 2.8 bar at the front, 2.7 bar at the rear). 

Usually if the tyre pressures are out of spec the car will show us the best.
If we have over inflated tyres well above the car specs the ride quality will be destroyed and the car will be very hard., similar to what I had experienced with my new tyres, the tyres will wear quickly on the centre tread and braking distance will increase plus handling will decrease., bumpy and abrupt  ride. 

If we have under inflated tyres the car will be very soft, unusually comfortable. Nothing wrong with it but efficiency will suffer, the tyres will get worn out on outer edges and there is potential risk of tyre and wheel get damaged if we hit a sharp pothole. 
The idea of having the ideal pressures is safety, comfort, efficiency and longevity of the tyres. I try to keep pressure as close as possible to the manufacturer recommended and equally between different tyres I had used so I can make real comparison between them for comfort and performance. 
Here all my tyres I had on this car in pictures beginning to their end 👍

[bunnyrabbit03]

Hi Tony, many thanks for this, very useful. So, from your experience, how do I best adjust the tyre pressure to account for the higher load index? 

[TonyHSD]

28 minutes ago, bunnyrabbit03 said:

Hi Tony, many thanks for this, very useful. So, from your experience, how do I best adjust the tyre pressure to account for the higher load index? 

Well here is tricky.
I will likely lower the pressures to accommodate extra tough materials used in the XL tyre construction.
If you carry extra load tyre pressure needs to go up in both SL and XL tyres, however if you drive only you or two of you in the car the XL tyres will ride rougher than SL tyres if both types inflated to the same spec pressures. I keep close to manufacturer recommended in my case is 2.3 bar front and 2.2 bar rear. 
On the summer tyres with softer side walls I always tend to put some extra pressure in, Front 2.33 bar and Rear  2.23 bar respectively. Now with all season standard load with the above figures the car drives uncomfortably. Pressure down to 2.28 bar and 2.2 bar and will leave them like that as tyres generally loose some pressure over time and once I feel the car is comfy as before will measure them next morning and see what figures are and then will make my mind where to try to maintain pressures. 👍

[Cyker]

I definitely need to get some new tyres in the near future - One thing I hadn't considered with the Mk4 is how the instant torque makes it easy to break traction! It wasn't an issue when the tyres were new, but apparently I'm still used to driving in a more manual style, where you can use the gears to limit torque. The poor traction control has been working overtime on the slightly damp back-roads I've been on lately!

Still can't believe it's barely been 2 years and <20k miles and my fronts are already down to 3mm and the backs at 5mm!! I thought these might last longer as they're supposedly Eco tyres...!

 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

I definitely need to get some new tyres in the near future - One thing I hadn't considered with the Mk4 is how the instant torque makes it easy to break traction! It wasn't an issue when the tyres were new, but apparently I'm still used to driving in a more manual style, where you can use the gears to limit torque. The poor traction control has been working overtime on the slightly damp back-roads I've been on lately!

Still can't believe it's barely been 2 years and <20k miles and my fronts are already down to 3mm and the backs at 5mm!! I thought these might last longer as they're supposedly Eco tyres...!

 

Eco tyres are known to be bad particularly in wet and cold. They are made of harder compound to promote low rolling resistance, save some fuel and co2, at the cost of  bad traction and often shorter life. Best to buy standard touring tyres. What is your current size,  smaller sizes usually have plenty to choose from. 👌

[Talking Hoarse]

Reading and watching this thread with interest.  My new 2.0 TS Design has the 17" Falkens, seem fine but noisy.  I am likely to replace with either Michelin or Goodyear all seasons in a years time.  Previous experience (of both on another car) has been very positive, maybe favouring wear and driving on Michelin CrossClimates 

However ...one question ... I note that the Falkens do have at least one point in their favour - of a shoulder around the rim that might just protect the rim edge from kerbing.  Anyone spotted any other tyres that have such shoulder?

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, Talking Houbik said:

Reading and watching this thread with interest.  My new 2.0 TS Design has the 17" Falkens, seem fine but noisy.  I am likely to replace with either Michelin or Goodyear all seasons in a years time.  Previous experience (of both on another car) has been very positive, maybe favouring wear and driving on Michelin CrossClimates 

However ...one question ... I note that the Falkens do have at least one point in their favour - of a shoulder around the rim that might just protect the rim edge from kerbing.  Anyone spotted any other tyres that have such shoulder?

Hi Ed and thank you for following. 
The rim protection on car tyres exist only on specific sizes and specific type of tyres, usually low profile high performance and ultra high performance tyres., run flat tyres too. The benefit of having one of these it’s not as big as you might think, however the negatives are real and noticeable.
Tyres with large rim protectors in general transfer more noise and vibrations into the cabin because of the extra thick side walls. However if you hit the kerb or sharp pothole the protector will squeeze and your wheels will get damaged without doubt. One of the reasons for me to move from 17” down to 16” wheels, along with cheaper tyres prices and better choices. 👍🛞
 

[Dylanfan]

The kerbing ring (I don't know what it's real name is) does help to protect the rim but it also stiffens the outside wall. As said above, there are plus and negative points. When I first bought a Citroen CX which has fully powered steering that was fingertip light at parking speeds and loaded up with speed I struggled to get 8k out of the front tyres. It was so very easy to over steer and scrub out the outside of the tyres but after fitting tyres with kerbing rings they lasted over 20k, as I got used to the steering the mileage on the tyres got better.  

[Kental]

10 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi Ed and thank you for following. 
The rim protection on car tyres exist only on specific sizes and specific type of tyres, usually low profile high performance and ultra high performance tyres., run flat tyres too. The benefit of having one of these it’s not as big as you might think, however the negatives are real and noticeable.
Tyres with large rim protectors in general transfer more noise and vibrations into the cabin because of the extra thick side walls. However if you hit the kerb or sharp pothole the protector will squeeze and your wheels will get damaged without doubt. One of the reasons for me to move from 17” down to 16” wheels, along with cheaper tyres prices and better choices. 👍🛞
 

Back in the late 80s early 90s apparently Peugeot would have matched shock absorbers to different tyres on SRi cars and above. That partially explains how cars with torsion beam suspension could handle so well.

At my previous employer our main client was a marketing department for a mainstream manufacturer. The engineers verses the marketing team would always be a compromise. 
Surprisingly bling wheels wouldn’t be the engineers choice, but neither would the poverty spec ones either. Middle is how the car was designed. Meaning the smallest wheels that can fit the brakes isn’t how the car is designed and tested to be at its best.

[TonyHSD]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:05 PM, Cyker said:

I definitely need to get some new tyres in the near future - One thing I hadn't considered with the Mk4 is how the instant torque makes it easy to break traction! It wasn't an issue when the tyres were new, but apparently I'm still used to driving in a more manual style, where you can use the gears to limit torque. The poor traction control has been working overtime on the slightly damp back-roads I've been on lately!

Still can't believe it's barely been 2 years and <20k miles and my fronts are already down to 3mm and the backs at 5mm!! I thought these might last longer as they're supposedly Eco tyres...!

 

It seems like Goodyear doesn’t have anything good for your size but Kumho does , it’s here on speed index H which is ok . Price and characteristics unbeatable. https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/kumho/ecowing-es31/185/65/R15/H/88/f?tyre=40811027
Or Michelin primacy 4 👍

https://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/consumer/type/search-tyres/18565tr15michprimacy41000192159

[TonyHSD]

On 10/7/2022 at 10:53 PM, Kental said:

Back in the late 80s early 90s apparently Peugeot would have matched shock absorbers to different tyres on SRi cars and above. That partially explains how cars with torsion beam suspension could handle so well.

At my previous employer our main client was a marketing department for a mainstream manufacturer. The engineers verses the marketing team would always be a compromise. 
Surprisingly bling wheels wouldn’t be the engineers choice, but neither would the poverty spec ones either. Middle is how the car was designed. Meaning the smallest wheels that can fit the brakes isn’t how the car is designed and tested to be at its best.

Got the Goodyear vector’s off the car and I can confirm that they are ultra soft, side walls very soft too with only slightly harder shoulders, exactly as on their advert. It seem really high quality tyres made to the highest standard. I did dig between the treads and they have curly patterns when open, something that will grab in snow and ice too. 👍

The major difference between them and the efficient  grip performance is in the shoulder stiffness and the difference in the side walls thickness, the  summer one has stiffer 3 major central treads and softer shoulders plus thinner side walls at only 5.3mm, weight 8.4kg where the all seasons has softer central tread and harder side shoulders plus thicker walls at 6.5mm, weight 8.8kg,   this perhaps might be the deal breaker for me. 
I had covered 1200 miles in two weeks, changing pressures up or down with not much of a difference. Worse in colder nights , similar to summer tyres, but strangely the summer Goodyear egp 2 felt somewhat softer and more comfortable, perhaps because of the difference above.  Also the car hard suspension did not helped much, but that’s not new and had always been since day 1  and the summer tyres manages to compensate that along with the smaller 16” wheels and lower tyre weight. Also the summer tyres has lower rolling resistance and the car feels lighter and more alive, so I am sticking with summer tyres all year around for now. The all season though are much quieter, no joke, significant noise reduction in the cabin. 👂🦻
Hybrids seems to like summer tyres more. I knew that but really wanted to try all seasons. Great tyres , possibly one of the best as per the reviews, sadly not suitable for me. They will go for a good clause, my dad can’t wait to have them 🙂🛞👌

I hope my experience helps others make the right decision. 👍

[Kental]

Tony

I will report back after the weekend comparing the Vectors to the Falkens on my 17" wheels.

[bunnyrabbit03]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

so I am sticking with summer tyres all year around for now.

Hi Tony, thank you for the update, really interesting. So no more winter tyres either? 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, bunnyrabbit03 said:

Hi Tony, thank you for the update, really interesting. So no more winter tyres either? 

Hi Mark,

yes no more two sets of tyres, no all season too. 🛞x🛞=⛔️
The only benefit of these two for me would be at snow and ice which we may not get and if we do, I will book off work as many others does.
I love driving on snow/ ice and during harsh wintry conditions like  snow, ice, fog, slush, dark country lanes etc. , and I was prepared previously but no luck here and so I won’t sacrifice comfort or efficiency anymore.
The winter tyres are more comfortable than all season or summer tyres. They are even softer with greater abilities to grip in cold temperatures 0C° and below were all seasons( all weather) are only ok down to max -5C° . Summer tyres not suitable for 7C° and below, however all season also get harder at these lower than 7C° temps and loose comfort similar to summers. Not a problem for someone with a better car or someone who drives 20-30miles a day but for me driving this old lady 150-200 miles a night sometimes even more the comfort and efficiency are top priority. 
Safety first no doubt about it, but driving sensibly on salty wet motorway with quality and new summer tyres never been an issue. Btw nothing beats summer tyres in rain and deep water, these V shaped all seasons are good but not as good as straight deep channels for water evacuation. 🌊🛞👍

 

[Cyker]

Yeah that's partly why I don't change - It just doesn't get cold enough down here, and the grip and handling feedback of winter and all-season tyres just isn't as good as summer tyres until it's practically freezing.

I always regret this stance on the 3 days we get snow, where just trying to get out of my road on summer tyres can be quite... 'exciting'... but once I'm out, all the roads tend to have been gritted to death already so even then the... 'excitement'... doesn't last long.

 

[PRus]

Booked the car in to have  Cross Climate+ fitted this Saturday, I'll keep you posted 😁

[bunnyrabbit03]

20 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi Mark,

yes no more two sets of tyres, no all season too. 🛞x🛞=⛔️
 

Hi Tony, please let us know how you get on. Being from Germany, I am culturally averse to running summer tyres in winter 😉 So all season tyres are already a concession to the milder UK winter 😅 But I also live on top of a hill in Staffordshire, with regular morning ground frost in winter, so I will stick with all season tyres - or maybe switch back to my summer / winter tyre routine depending on how happy I am with the all season tyres this winter. But in terms of rain, I was driving during a very heavy downpour on the M5/M6 recently and CC 2s were excellent 👌

[TonyHSD]

46 minutes ago, bunnyrabbit03 said:

Hi Tony, please let us know how you get on. Being from Germany, I am culturally averse to running summer tyres in winter 😉 So all season tyres are already a concession to the milder UK winter 😅 But I also live on top of a hill in the West Midlands, with regular morning ground frost in winter, so I will stick with all season tyres - or maybe switch back to my summer / winter tyre routine depending on how happy I am with the all season tyres this winter. But in terms of rain, I was driving during a very heavy downpour on the M5/M6 recently and CC 2s were excellent 👌

No problems. 
I had previously driven all year around with summer tyres here in south east England and there are no issues at all in the cold and wet.
The only problem comes when some snowfall happens and the roads becomes white. Then there are the funny moments when nobody goes nowhere and crashes at every corner.  This is not only because of the summer tyres used, but also because of the drivers, who has no clue what to do and how to react. The majority simply keep going, same speed, same distance (not distance at all) , and same driving style: -acceleration fast and full throttle until no more road left and then slamming on the brakes, well this is not working in slippery conditions. Plus on a fwd cars they mount the new tyres to the rear as a safety precaution against aquaplaning, which usually will never happen if you have no traction at all to move the car 😂👌
Summer tyres does indeed wear faster when used on snow because traction is lost often and slipping is happening on almost every start or slowing down. I had previously a set Goodyear efficient grip performance fitted to another car, first winter no snow at all, the fronts lasted 50k miles and down to 4mm, the rears down to 6mm. The next winter I replaced the fronts with two new tyres, then I noticed they didn’t last as long as the previous set because there was snow and I was driving with them and a lots of tyre slipping during that period. 
Toyota hybrids are very good in snow as they have low end torque from the electric motor. They also have very good traction control that helps a lot, if one of the driving wheels loose grip, the CC reacts immediately and stop the spinning wheel so the car can move on, tested numerous times and works great. Here is one important note to share: if both driving wheels loose traction at the same time the car immediately cut off all power and you will be stuck. Only option is to turn off traction and stability control.
All season or winter tyres are the best to be used during the colder weather, that’s for sure. 

[Cyker]

I'm just glad they're FWD - I'd never buy a RWD car having seen how many BMWs and Porsches seem to be stuck, in ditches or facing the wrong way on some snowy roads!!