2021 Toyota Yaris Hybrid on the FIrst Service

[FROSTYBALLS]

Bear in mind that Toyota Ireland isn't owned by Toyota, but is a separate company being 100% owned by the Mahony family.

[Cyker]

MAHONEY!!!

 

...

 

sorry I was traumatised by Police Academy as a child

 

[MCatPG]

Sonyny's description of this matter sounds outrageous, but more usefully I might say that it sounds as though there has been a breach of contract.

If I was advising in my professional capacity (which I am emphatically NOT because I am retired) I would tell my client to proceed as follows:

1. obtain written evidence (an email will suffice) that additional money was demanded for using the correct oil, and
2. pay for the correct oil to be used so as not to invalidate the warranty, and
3. then write to the dealer to demand (not request) a refund of the additional payment (ie: the difference between the cost of the wrong oil and the correct oil). The demand should be sent as a hard copy by post, using the local system for providing evidence of delivery and be in the following terms: 'The manufacturer's instructions state that my vehicle should be serviced using SAE OW-8 oil. I have the benefit of a service contract which requires compliance with the manufacturer's recommendations for servicing the vehicle. You undertook to carry out the service but you refused to comply with the manufacturer's requirement to use that oil unless I paid an additional charge of [amount] extra. I enclose a copy of [evidence of refusal].  I paid the additional charge because if the incorrect oil had been used the manufacturer's warranty might have been invalidated. By making this additional charge you were in clear breach of the contract for service of the vehicle. I therefore demand that the additional charge be refunded to me no later than 5:00 pm on [date] being 21 working days after the date when you should receive this letter, time being of the essence for compliance. Failure to comply with this demand will result in (1) a claim being made against your company without any further notice, and (2) attendant  publicity'. Details of the bank account to which the refund is to be made should be included. 

I would also advise that a copy of this letter should be sent by post to the manufacturer's registered address in the relevant jurisdiction, marked 'For the attention of the Company Secretary and/or Legal Counsel'.

If the refund is not made by the due date then a claim should be made using the local system for small claims. In the UK this is moneyclaim.gov.uk - I don't know what exists in Ireland. In the UK you can include the cost of filing the claim as part of the amount which is claimed. Be aware that the system for enforcement of very small claims like this is deficient in the UK and I do not know whether it is better in Ireland, but nevertheless it is often worth doing because if you obtain judgement it is then possible to put the respondent under considerable pressure by using social media and possibly television consumer rights TV shows to state the facts of the matter. The knowledge that you intend to do so is often enough to persuade the respondent to comply with the demand.

The unpleasantness and work that you would endure if you were to do this would not be compensated by a successful claim, but if you were to be successful you would have the comfort of knowing that you have probably helped others by doing so.

[sonyny]

there was no demand for money for using the correct oil
toyota ireland told me my car was serviced to toyota specifications 

if i want them to take out the 0w20 and put in ow8 i will have to pay for it

[MCatPG]

1 hour ago, sonyny said:

there was no demand for money for using the correct oil
toyota ireland told me my car was serviced to toyota specifications 

if i want them to take out the 0w20 and put in ow8 i will have to pay for it

Willie, there's no legal difference between you paying extra for the correct oil at the time of the service and having to pay separately afterwards for changing the oil if the oil they put in your car is wrong and you never agreed to it. The only difference would be what's called quantum, the amount you have to pay. It might have been cheaper to pay for the correct oil in the first place than to pay afterwards for an oil change but the principle is the same, and the question remains, should you have to pay for this? If you should not have to pay for it then the remedy is to get the oil changed and then demand a refund of the cost.

You said that your purchase contract for the car includes 3 free services, that this was the first service, and that the manual says: 'SAE OW-8 is filled into your Toyota vehicle at manufacturing, and the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather. If SAE OW-8 oil is not available, SAE OW-16 or 0W-20 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with SAE OW-8 at the next oil change.'

The words I have highlighted in bold are good evidence that the alternatives should ONLY be used if OW-8 is not available. Is OW-8 available in Ireland?  Yes it is: https://alphalubricants.ie/product/hybrid-0w-8/

It sounds as though you bought the car in Ireland from an Irish dealer, and they in turn bought it from Toyota Ireland:  https://core.cro.ie/e-commerce/company/72668 an Unlimited Company. I don't think Toyota Ireland ULC manufactured the car. I think they bought it from a company in the Toyota group, and the chain leads back eventually to the actual manufacturer. It is the manufacturer's warranty and specifications that matter, not what Toyota Ireland say. They are just the importers, nothing else. The only way that Toyota Ireland's opinion could count for anything is if they threw away the manufacturer's paperwork and gave you different papers with their own warranty and specification, and your purchase contract for the car was based on those. But even if they did do that they are hoist with their own petard because you have in your hand the written specification for the oil which is quoted above.

Based on what I have read here it's quite simple. If the manufacturer specifies that OW-8 is the correct oil, and if Toyota Ireland ULC say that the service using a different (cheaper) oil was carried out according to the manufacturer's specifications, and that's all there is to it, then they are lying. If that is the case and I was in your shoes I would change the oil and then demand repayment of the cost. In layman's terms, if I didn't obtain a refund I would sue the barstewards.

[sonyny]

re post

there was no demand for money for using the correct oil
toyota ireland told me my car was serviced to toyota specifications 

the dealer told me if i want them to take out the 0w20 and put in ow8 i will have to pay for it

[sonyny]

Problem Solved
Just got email from toyota ireland
We thank you for your letter of the 26th
having had the opportunity to review same, requested our After Sales Department to further review your concerns, and revert to you with our recommendations.
Whilst as you may understand, the owner manuals cover all markets, inclusive of the Nordic countries which experience more extremes cold weather, particularly so in the winter and southern Europe who experience extremes in the summer. The OW8 is certainly the preferred choice of oil in such cases.
Thankfully, our climate is more moderate, and we would not experience the extremes in weather of the Nordic countries e.g. in excess of- 18C and on rare occasions in excess of 27 C, this wide variance of temperature is therefore more suitable to OW8 oil. As Toyota vehicles operating in our market on annual basis are not subjected to such extremes in temperatures, the recommendation for your specific vehicle is to use OW20, as was the case when you had the vehicle recently serviced.

We are pleased to confirm under no circumstances whatsoever would the warranty or future performance of your vehicle be adversely impacted by using the OW20 oil. Please be assured once the vehicle is serviced within the required manufactures schedules, and preferably with the main Toyota dealer network, we are confident you will enjoy many years of Toyota carefree motoring into the future.
Additionally, we have taken the opportunity of speaking with the Service Manager, of your retailing dealer, and confirmed that when your next scheduled service is due, if it is your specific request for the 08W oil to be used, please notify them at the time of booking in the service. they will then use the 08W oil at the next service or indeed future servicing of your vehicle once this is requested in advance / at the time of booking.
We again thank you for your letter and wish you many years of Toyota carefree motoring into the future. Assuring you of our best attention at all 

ps i have to say in the 48 years off having toyota cars on and off i have being very happy with them

i am very happy with this result

thanks 

[Cyker]

That's funny since we just had a 43-degree heatwave  

Better keep that letter where you can find it for the next service in case they try to charge you for the 0w8 when you request it!  

[FROSTYBALLS]

Unfortunately the point about Ireland not suffering such extremes of temperature as Norway doesn't wash.

Ireland has a similar climate to the UK. If 0W-8 isn't needed in climates such as Ireland & UK, then Toyota would cover that in the owners manuals.

Seems to be a bit of the old Irish blarney ......

Next time you have the car serviced, ask for OW-8 to be used when the service is first booked, and again when the car is taken in for service. Keep Toyota Ireland's reply and show it to your dealer.

[TonyHSD]

That’s a lot of nonsense from Toyota and obviously just cover themselves for their doing it wrong. 
If the car came from factory with 0w8 then 0w8 should be used when serviced in the dealer, period.  
And btw all three different viscosity will have similar properties in the cold as they are all spec 0w which is the cold weather factor where 20, 16 or 8 is the hot weather specification or whenever the oil is at high temperature.
 I know that using 0w20 or 0w16 will not cause any harm to the engine as they will have very similar properties in general but what may sacrifice here is the fuel efficiency a bit and eventually a complication with the electric oil pump, however it’s too early to talk about that since these cars are only two years old. What makes me upset is that the dealers gains profits on the customers expenses, firstly the service price it’s not cheap and secondly the fuel economy maybe reduce a bit using 0w20. 
previously they were using 5w30 semi synthetic oil in cars where 0w20 full synthetic oil was filled up in the factory. One of the reasons to get your engine burning oil as a result of stuck pistons rings is exactly that, using wrong type of engine oil. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

That’s a lot of nonsense from Toyota

Toyota Ireland (a privately owned company), rather than Toyota.

[Bernard Foy]

On 7/27/2022 at 10:09 AM, Bernard Foy said:

Good morning Willie, I have also emailed Toyota Ireland as to why this happened, and as my Yaris Hybrid is due it’s first free service in six months time, will I be presented with the same lame excuses for not using the 0-8W oil as recommended by Toyota for the car. They acknowledged the email and said that they would respond in the coming days. I await with bated breath 🤔

Hi Willie, everyone, Toyota Ireland have replied and the basics of their response is the following: Toyota certainly recommend 0W8 to cover temperatures in excess of -18C to +27C, however as we live in a more temperate climate their technical department recommends 0W20.

But having spoken to the service manager at my dealership, Mr.————— they said that if I specifically requested 0W8 oil to be used at my first and subsequent services when booking the service, they would be quite happy to do so. However, Toyota Ireland technical department recommends 0W20 to be used.

[Cyker]

Hmm, I didn't think the recommended oil changed by region... I wonder what the various european countries specify?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Bearing in mind that Toyota Ireland is a privately owned company, I think this is more to do with saving costs for them.

[Bernard Foy]

7 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Bearing in mind that Toyota Ireland is a privately owned company, I think this is more to do with saving costs for them.

Of course it’s an attempt to save them money and they’ve been caught with their trousers down. I wouldn’t give any credence to what the “technical department” of a privately owned company flying under the flag of Toyota would determine what is best for my car.

[Derek.w]

So thats the catch free servicing excluding the oil.

Well I forked out £692.35 for 3 services plus one mot.

So you still saved money even if you pay for the oil yourself.

[Bernard Foy]

4 hours ago, Derek.w said:

So thats the catch free servicing excluding the oil.

Well I forked out £692.35 for 3 services plus one mot.

So you still saved money even if you pay for the oil yourself.

No Derek, on buying a new Toyota Yaris in Rep of Ireland the car  is guaranteed for a 3 years and three free services including oil and filters and labour. The car is usually washed and vacuumed also. There can be no charge for using the exact type of oil recommended by Toyota in the car’s handbook.

[Cyker]

Bwaaa I wish my car came with free services!  

[Derek.w]

That offer was on when I perchased my car but only for the outgoing Yaris and the Aygo cars.