Fuel Injector problem 11 year old RAV4

[Hybrid21]

My daughter's 11 year old RAV4 broke down yesterday.

AA called and towed to local garage who have diagnosed a fuel injector stuck open. They have suggested all four injectors removed and sent to be cleaned and tested, replaced if necessary. They told her over phone that a new injector is around £400 😮

Car has done just over 80K miles and they have had it since new with no real problems.

Appreciate your comments and advice re this.

[Hybrid21]

Obviously no comments or advice coming forth on this.😟

Anyway, garage called her this morning to say that injectors tested, one broken, one cracked, other two not functioning as they should. Said that all four injectors need replaced !

Total cost £2600 😮

Again any comments appreciated.

[ernieb]

It seems strange to me that all four injectors are showing problems of one kind or another at the same moment in time.  Based on your previous estimate of £400 each that suggests the garage want £1000 of labour. Have you got another dealer locally you could try, even over the phone given you have the diagnosis?

 

[philip42h]

On 7/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, Hybrid21 said:

My daughter's 11 year old RAV4 broke down yesterday.

It might be helpful to give a little more detail on the spec of this RAV4 ... ?

That said, once the injectors are out and diagnosed as 'bad' there's relatively little she can do other than look for a better quote. The car is pretty worthless without it's injectors; it going to be worth more than £2600 with a new set; if it's otherwise a good car, have a weep and another glass of wine and just go ahead ...

[Cyker]

How trustworthy are the garage? I've never heard of 4 injectors suddenly failing like this, and usually the car starts acting up noticeably first.

If she tends to ignore such warning signs then fair enough, but if it was running fine before it's hard to believe all 4 have suddenly failed without warning!

When an injector on my mate's old Audi A3 started going, it was running very noticeably rough. In that case the garage diagnosed it as failed and needing replacing, but my travelling mechanic just soaked it in carb cleaner and it was fine for the rest of the life of the car! (Which IIRC was about a year or 2 before he wrote it off  )

 

[Hybrid21]

Thanks guys, daughter is 200 miles away from me so not that easy for me to become involved with the problem.

There has been an intermittent vibration felt in the car over the last 6 weeks or so and the garage were unable to find anything until it totally broke down the other day.

She has used this local garage over the last 8 years or so and seems to trust them. Both herself and her husband have little mechanical knowledge and do depend on the garage.

I'm thinking that one injector is knackered and another may be cracked, but the other two being the same age maybe not at there best, and probably the garage would rather change them.

It's the RAV4 diesel engine with just over 80k miles, don't know if injectors should be expected to last much longer than this ? Run on supermarket diesel all it's life.

 

 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Hybrid21 said:

It's the RAV4 diesel engine with just over 80k miles, don't know if injectors should be expected to last much longer than this ? Run on supermarket diesel all it's life.

A 2011 RAV4 diesel will be of the 150 bhp generation. IIRC it will be known as a D4D if it is a manual, or a D-CAT if it is automatic - the D-CAT includes emissions control goodies including a fifth injector and, potentially, a whole load of different problem opportunities.

I believe that the injectors have been known to fail, and folk have managed to break injectors taking them out, but I'm now way beyond both my level of knowledge and reliability of my memory! You could do with input from one of the members who maintains a RAV4 of this vintage ...

[Hybrid21]

Thanks Philip, it is the manual version.

[ColinB]

Not sure whether my neighbours RAV4 was exactly the same year, however they had major problems with the injectors which had a similar cost to fix. They gave up in the end and pxd it - against another, slightly newer RAV4 with a different diesel engine.

[Hybrid21]

13 hours ago, ColinB said:

Not sure whether my neighbours RAV4 was exactly the same year, however they had major problems with the injectors which had a similar cost to fix. They gave up in the end and pxd it - against another, slightly newer RAV4 with a different diesel engine.

Interesting Colin, I'm just wondering if this is to have been an expected issue with my daughter's car.

Next time I'm at my dealer I'll run the scenario by them and see what they say.

[Hybrid21]

Just an update, car's been in garage for around two weeks now.

Garage called my daughter yesterday to say new injectors fitted, now they can't get the revs to rise, must be a blockage somewhere ?

I'm wondering if this garage know what they're doing 😕

[Hybrid21]

Just another update, car still not sorted, courtesy car provided. 😕

[Hybrid21]

Another update, car still in garage, last phone call they said that a Toyota technician was coming to check the software 🤔

[TonyHSD]

I hope they will sort it at the end. It might not be injectors at fault at first place. Wish you luck 👍

[APS]

It all sounds a bit off to me. Sure, the injectors can fail. But all four??

For comparison - My Corolla 2.0 diesel ran for 215,000 miles on the same injectors. It did need one new glow plug and the high-pressure fuel 'governor' towards the end of my ownership. 

Did the dealership do the basic check to replace the fuel filter? These clog up and need replacing regularly. If not replaced, the engine will be weak and fail to rev. Does it have a cat/particulate filter? Is that clogged? 

Well, I'm sure they know better than I do. But it just seems odd.

[Cyker]

It's amazing how many faults need the injectors replacing!  

Diagnostics is just not a common skill in the automotive industry any more sadly - The parts cannon seems to be the current standard.

 

Recent example - My dad's front washer stopped working, he took it to a garage and they said it was faulty and needed replacing and that'll be £250 because they'd need to take the whole front end off the car to get at it, which is ridiculous.

Thankfully, being a cheapskate, he didn't want to pay this, and I was able to get my travelling mechanic to go look at it - I thought he'd need to at least take the driver's wheel off to get at it, but apparently he just turned the wheel full right-lock and managed to get the wheel arch liner out without even taking the wheel off

Took out the pump (There were two!), tested it, didn't work, banged it a few times, tadaa, it's working again. It was just seized from infrequent use!

 

He also did a similar thing for a friend's A3 years ago - Engine was running rough, garage said he needed a new injector; Travelling mechanic just took it out and soaked it in a bowl of carb cleaner for a while then put it back in - All fine again!   Engine was still fine when he eventually got KHAAAN'd too and had to trade it in!

[Rhymes with Paris]

I noticed over the years that all the Peugeot washer pumps I ever had, always packed up after a week or two of owning one.

Usually due to being submersible and full of water and rust.

On the 405 it was accessable from the top with bonnet open , and easy fix for £12 with a generic pump, when quoted £120+from a Peugeot dealer.

On the partner in was a wheel off and arch liner out job, but still easy and cheap.

Mind you,then I could jump about a bit and jack up cars, remove wheels etc 

[Hybrid21]

Unfortunately it's a local garage, not a dealership, in the north of Scotland, and I am not involved but hearing the saga from my daughter.

From the beginning I was a bit concerned re their diagnosis, but now am thinking that they do not know what they are doing ☹️

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Unfortunately it's a local garage, not a dealership, in the north of Scotland, and I am not involved but hearing the saga from my daughter.

From the beginning I was a bit concerned re their diagnosis, but now am thinking that they do not know what they are doing ☹️

I hope all ends well for you. Some mechanics are not honest people and when they see a girl or woman they think an easy money earn, or sometimes when not sure what exactly the problem is they try to figure out with replacing parts and hope, all that at costumer expense. If its me a mechanic and not sure what exactly is wrong with the car I will rather tell you the truth and suggest you to take the car to someone else who had dealt with that issue before and knows how to fix it, but that's me, seems not all mechanics think like that. 

First things to do when fuel air mixture problems arise is to change fuel, add additives , change air and fuel filters , take the car for a motorway drive 40 min or longer, and in high percent of these cases the issues simply gone, no need expensive repairs or parts replaced. 

[Hybrid21]

Thanks Tony, a bit frustrating for me, just wondering where it will end 😕

My daughter said today that the garage are having Arnold Clark look at it re software, but as far as I know Arnold Clark have lost their Toyota franchise 🤔

[TonyHSD]

4 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Thanks Tony, a bit frustrating for me, just wondering where it will end 😕

My daughter said today that the garage are having Arnold Clark look at it re software, but as far as I know Arnold Clark have lost their Toyota franchise 🤔

Yeah, maybe time to look at the legal part of the case as you never know how will end really. I believe that the garage already did cause inconvenience and unnecessary money spent on parts which may turn not being faulty. Unfortunately I can not  suggest or advice anything on that legal  matter as I am not competent here at all. 👍

[Derek.w]

Sounds like one of those garage relying on code readers after saying that its costly just to remove then and do a spray test of injectors was a pressure rail test carried out first before condemning injectors.

Some cat clean and injector cleaner woodent hurt.

Alas to late now.

[Cyker]

It does sometimes feel like they're learning on the job, with you acting as the funding for their 'training and course materials'!

 

[Hybrid21]

19 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Sounds like one of those garage relying on code readers after saying that its costly just to remove then and do a spray test of injectors was a pressure rail test carried out first before condemning injectors.

Some cat clean and injector cleaner woodent hurt.

Alas to late now.

Hi Derek, the garage diagnosed one injector was completely broken, but removed all four and sent to a company to be tested.

They said that one was broken, one was cracked and the other two were not functioning properly, so four new injectors were fitted.

 

[Hybrid21]

Update today : garage phoned my daughter today to say that they've had to order another four new injectors and will fit and code them.

Didn't say why another four injectors were required 😕