Petrol particulate filter

[Byrnew]

Hello, I am reading up on petrol cars now as I was looking to buy one and its saying all newer modern petrol cars are fitted with petrol particulate filters which I've read on forms are blocking up jist like dpf filters . So can't drove a diesel due to doing short trips and now the same issue driving pertols ! Are these in the ckrola hybrids 2019 up does anyone know and if so has there been any issues with them .

 

Thanks 

[TonyHSD]

Hi and welcome. 
Toyota hybrids has petrol particulate filters indeed but they don’t have any issues. I can’t think of a single case here been reported. You can easily buy and enjoy any Toyota hybrid model on short or long motorway trips. When using the car on short trips all you need to take extra care is the small 12v Battery. To prevent any flat Battery surprises best practice is to keep the car ON (ready mode) for as long as you can and minimum 20-30 min each time you use the car. In case that’s not possible you can buy smart charger and once in a while connect to the Battery and charge until is fully charged. That’s pretty much all. Toyota hybrids currently are the best cars with combustion engines available. 👍

[Byrnew]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi and welcome. 
Toyota hybrids has petrol particulate filters indeed but they don’t have any issues. I can’t think of a single case here been reported. You can easily buy and enjoy any Toyota hybrid model on short or long motorway trips. When using the car on short trips all you need to take extra care is the small 12v battery. To prevent any flat battery surprises best practice is to keep the car ON (ready mode) for as long as you can and minimum 20-30 min each time you use the car. In case that’s not possible you can buy smart charger and once in a while connect to the battery and charge until is fully charged. That’s pretty much all. Toyota hybrids currently are the best cars with combustion engines available. 👍

Hi Tony, thanks for the reply . Originally my next car was going to be a corolla hybrid however at work there has been 5 caytilic converters robbed on cars a lexus rx450h, 3 Toyota prius and a Honda hybrid which has made me worry about thr corola hybrid now. At present I drove a lexus is300h 2014 and I have started cycling to work with fear mine will be next . So I was looking at petrol cars only to read about these ppf that people seem to be having issues with like dpfs. I've had a diesel before and hit the dpf issues hence the reason I went for thr hybrid and now up against low life scum robbing the cats so i am hitting brick walls every corner I turn. 

 

Thanks

[TonyHSD]

7 minutes ago, Byrnew said:

Hi Tony, thanks for the reply . Originally my next car was going to be a corolla hybrid however at work there has been 5 caytilic converters robbed on cars a lexus rx450h, 3 Toyota prius and a Honda hybrid which has made me worry about thr corola hybrid now. At present I drove a lexus is300h 2014 and I have started cycling to work with fear mine will be next . So I was looking at petrol cars only to read about these ppf that people seem to be having issues with like dpfs. I've had a diesel before and hit the dpf issues hence the reason I went for thr hybrid and now up against low life scum robbing the cats so i am hitting brick walls every corner I turn. 

 

Thanks

Corollas are not as much affected as Priuses and Auris or Lexus. They have cats built in exhaust manifold and more difficult to be nicked. There are also cat plates available and you can remove hybrid badges  from the car making it impossible to recognise as hybrid. Prius and Auris are more in danger. Low life’s can still anything from any car. 👍

[Byrnew]

11 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Corollas are not as much affected as Priuses and Auris or Lexus. They have cats built in exhaust manifold and more difficult to be nicked. There are also cat plates available and you can remove hybrid badges  from the car making it impossible to recognise as hybrid. Prius and Auris are more in danger. Low life’s can still anything from any car. 👍

Thanks Tony I will look into one when I change I do love the look of thrm and thr reliably of them is exactly what I want .

Thanks for the information. 

[Eddiefh]

At the time off changing our last diesel car to petrol and a work site change I decided to go with a petrol I wanted a Tucson or Kia they moved to gpf quite early ; late 2016 on the models I liked  . I went with a older Toyota for simplicity but I must say I work in the car game and never hear of anyone having problems with gpf’s but everyday they’ll be at least one customer with a dpf issue 

[Byrnew]

34 minutes ago, Eddiefh said:

At the time off changing our last diesel car to petrol and a work site change I decided to go with a petrol I wanted a Tucson or Kia they moved to gpf quite early ; late 2016 on the models I liked  . I went with a older Toyota for simplicity but I must say I work in the car game and never hear of anyone having problems with gpf’s but everyday they’ll be at least one customer with a dpf issue 

Hi Eddie, thanks for that information thats reassuring. When I was reading the forums people that had the newer hyundia tuscan and form focus petrol were  owing these issues which I found stand becasue thr whole idea people had to move to petrol was becaise of short stop start driving . The dpf broke my heart in my last honda accord. Id imagine there are an awful lot of deisels out there these days with the dpf gutted and deleted due to them leaving allot of people no choices and if they ever brought a proper test in ( not visual ) there will be allot of cars off thr roads and a huge back log from car manufacturers to source new dpf filters to be put back into them to make them road worthy. 

 

Thanks 🤗 

[forkingabout]

FWIW - A lot of DPF issues where caused by people buying the wrong type of vehicle for there actual usage.

People insisting on diesel because they give better average mpg then just trundling round town on short journeys slowly blocking up the DPF.

A lot of people just never look at the actual long term ownership costs.

 

[Derek.w]

DPF system on a Citroen repair can be expensive as the tank is a sealed unit with pump, electronic card and floats inside.

So what you save in road tax you spend on a new tank.

[Byrnew]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:38 AM, forkingabout said:

FWIW - A lot of DPF issues where caused by people buying the wrong type of vehicle for there actual usage.

People insisting on diesel because they give better average mpg then just trundling round town on short journeys slowly blocking up the DPF.

A lot of people just never look at the actual long term ownership costs.

Hi Lee, thats 100% true even now when I talk to people I know that has deisel cars and dont do big milage I ask do they have issues with the dpf and there reply is whats a dpf !! I guess for allot of people there were way more options of cars to buy a few years back because most were deisels and better looking cars. I know in Ireland now thr nct test they are hooking a computer up to the ecu doing a test to see if there are any safety faults shown on thr cars,  will thr next thing be this could show if the cars dpf were deleted through this and cause a fail.

[Mike2222]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:38 AM, forkingabout said:

A lot of people just never look at the actual long term ownership costs.

Unfortunately, for as long as the PCP finance cycle reigns supreme in the private market, the vast majority of people won't care about the long term costs, as they have no intention of keeping the car after it's first 3 years, however it is this choice to order a diesel for mpg/torque/SUV reasons that results in the make up of the future 2nd hand market. 

Business market similar, in that they'll be kept for 2-3yrs then sent to auction, but in more casss there might be high enough mileage for dpf to be a concern, but probably would have been outweighed by the better mpg returns of diesel in those cases. (obv long distance driving is exactly what a diesel should be for, but what I mean is it still results in a diesel on the 2nd hand market, which might be purchased by a private owner for an inappropriate use-case, resulting in dpf problems) 

[Byrnew]

21 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

DPF system on a Citroen repair can be expensive as the tank is a sealed unit with pump, electronic card and floats inside.

So what you save in road tax you spend on a new tank.

Hi Derek,  yeah I heard most dpfs are crazy money never new thst about the citroeons one seems more complicated and expensive 😳  glad I never went woth one of those before 😃

[Derek.w]

Oh Citroen also modified the add blue tank cap to allow air into the tank.

This was a new system at the time.

Car used a lot on motorways.

[forkingabout]

There must be a reason why I haven't seen any of the vehicle electronic repair / remanufacturing companies offering a service / exchange or repair for the Peugeot / Citroen ad blue tank system.

[Cyker]

I don't really get why they stuck particulate filters on a petrol engine; They were bad enough on a diesel engine, but at least there is an obvious reason due to the high soot output of a diesel engine under load.

On a petrol engine, the particulates are negligible as, unlike diesel, fuel and air is pre-mixed so burns very cleanly, so you're just sapping a whole load of horsepower and mpg for no good reason.

The only cases I can see it possibly making a difference is with petrol engines that use stratified injection, or turbo-charged cars that are set to over-fuel a lot (To keep cylinder temps down) but those could be fixe din much more efficient ways!

 

As for the original question, it's early days yet, but GPFs shouldn't have the same problem as DPFs - Firstly, they will take so long to fill the car might never even need to regen for months or years, secondly petrol exhaust is much hotter, so it doesn't need a 5th injector to set all the... whatever it catches... on fire as the hot petrol exhaust can easily do that all on its own.

 

[Byrnew]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

I don't really get why they stuck particulate filters on a petrol engine; They were bad enough on a diesel engine, but at least there is an obvious reason due to the high soot output of a diesel engine under load.

On a petrol engine, the particulates are negligible as, unlike diesel, fuel and air is pre-mixed so burns very cleanly, so you're just sapping a whole load of horsepower and mpg for no good reason.

The only cases I can see it possibly making a difference is with petrol engines that use stratified injection, or turbo-charged cars that are set to over-fuel a lot (To keep cylinder temps down) but those could be fixe din much more efficient ways!

 

As for the original question, it's early days yet, but GPFs shouldn't have the same problem as DPFs - Firstly, they will take so long to fill the car might never even need to regen for months or years, secondly petrol exhaust is much hotter, so it doesn't need a 5th injector to set all the... whatever it catches... on fire as the hot petrol exhaust can easily do that all on its own.

 

Hi, excellent read and information thanks for ur input . I must speak to a few mechanics over time and ask thrm have they see. Many issues come through there jobs with them . Surely they can't be thr same.e as dpf as people need petrol cars for short journeys as allot of us don't have a need for long journeys . Maybe they put thrm in to ***** us off so we all go electric 😝

[Cyker]

Well they won't be as problematic as DPFs as petrol engines make a faction of the particulates, so they're sat there doing practically nothing other than being a big exhaust restriction most of the time.

 

[Dylanfan]

I drove Citroen diesels for years, first one in 1987 although without a DPF then. Until I retired I was doing over 20k a year and never had an problems, after retirement I was only doing about 4k. Still didn’t have any problems BUT  (a big but) I gave the car a good workout every so often to get everything hot.

A diesel is not the car for short journeys or lower annual mileage, you’ll never get the premium paid for the diesel back.

[Byrnew]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:28 AM, Cyker said:

Well they won't be as problematic as DPFs as petrol engines make a faction of the particulates, so they're sat there doing practically nothing other than being a big exhaust restriction most of the time.

Thats good so ...ideally I'd like a corola hybrid for reliability i must enquire about the location of thr cat and thr cover toyoto can put over them not that it would stop them if they realy wanted it thiugh but as a quick in and out they probably won't want the hassel or risk. Ud wonder as time goes on with more petrol cars been on the market now will they target those rather than just the hybrids . I never hear of them robbing the diesel ones like diesel suvs for some reason. 

[Byrnew]

1 hour ago, Dylanfan said:

I drove Citroen diesels for years, first one in 1987 although without a DPF then. Until I retired I was doing over 20k a year and never had an problems, after retirement I was only doing about 4k. Still didn’t have any problems BUT  (a big but) I gave the car a good workout every so often to get everything hot.

A diesel is not the car for short journeys or lower annual mileage, you’ll never get the premium paid for the diesel back.

Hi, The only reason diesels always apealed to me was more options for bigger cars where bigger petrol cars are allot harder to find with less to pick from.  I had issues with an 09 Honda accord I bought.  I bought it in march and went fine up to Oct because I was fishing every second weekend so it was getting the drive to the country once I stopped the light came on but not the light to tell me to get to a motorway to clear it the light that put it straight into limp more and had to get 3 forced regens in thr garage and kept happening . There was high milage on it about 120.000 miles so maybe it was the end life of it too.  I do know lots of people that do short runs and haven't had issues for some reason. Again my one was 09 the first of thrm I wonder have they got better as thr years went on .

[Cyker]

On 7/29/2022 at 7:00 AM, Dylanfan said:

I drove Citroen diesels for years, first one in 1987 although without a DPF then. Until I retired I was doing over 20k a year and never had an problems, after retirement I was only doing about 4k. Still didn’t have any problems BUT  (a big but) I gave the car a good workout every so often to get everything hot.

A diesel is not the car for short journeys or lower annual mileage, you’ll never get the premium paid for the diesel back.

The same is even more true for EVs and Hybrids, but more people buy them for short journeys than they did diesels!

Still, I do miss my old 1 Yaris diesel - It was much cheaper than the Mk4 and had unrivalled torque for a car of that size, was very high-revving for a diesel and had a close-ratio gearbox (!) - It was a lot of fun to drive, and had the bullet-proof reliability of an old diesel as it was pre-DPF, DMF etc.

2nd hand, the diesel premium is not a big issue, although the Mk1 D4D's are a little pricey for a Mk1 Yaris just because they are rare, maybe even rarer than the T-Sports!

As for the Cat, the new hybrids should be less targetted - Firstly, they have far less of the precious metals than the older ones, and secondly the main cat is built into the exhaust manifold so it's not possible to cut it out in 2 minutes like in the targetted cars, and the thieves tend to go for the low-hanging fruit so won't bother with these.

The reason diesels are never targetted is they only have 2-way cats, and don't have any rhodium in them, which is the big money metal; They only have Palladium and Platinum which by comparison are worthless (Which is a funny thing to say and shows just how ridiculously expensive rhodium is!). Also diesel cats are *filthy* with soot - Anyone trying to steal one would probably get free lung cancer to go with their stolen cat  

[Byrnew]

20 hours ago, Cyker said:

The same is even more true for EVs and Hybrids, but more people buy them for short journeys than they did diesels!

Still, I do miss my old 1 Yaris diesel - It was much cheaper than the Mk4 and had unrivalled torque for a car of that size, was very high-revving for a diesel and had a close-ratio gearbox (!) - It was a lot of fun to drive, and had the bullet-proof reliability of an old diesel as it was pre-DPF, DMF etc.

2nd hand, the diesel premium is not a big issue, although the Mk1 D4D's are a little pricey for a Mk1 Yaris just because they are rare, maybe even rarer than the T-Sports!

As for the Cat, the new hybrids should be less targetted - Firstly, they have far less of the precious metals than the older ones, and secondly the main cat is built into the exhaust manifold so it's not possible to cut it out in 2 minutes like in the targetted cars, and the thieves tend to go for the low-hanging fruit so won't bother with these.

The reason diesels are never targetted is they only have 2-way cats, and don't have any rhodium in them, which is the big money metal; They only have Palladium and Platinum which by comparison are worthless (Which is a funny thing to say and shows just how ridiculously expensive rhodium is!). Also diesel cats are *filthy* with soot - Anyone trying to steal one would probably get free lung cancer to go with their stolen cat

My best car looking back was an 03 audi a4 s line 1.9 tdi no dpf crap pokey, comfy and never a days trouble . No complications those were the days 😊

low hanging fruit that made me laugh 😆 

Little parasites thatsall they are i read they were robbing thr cats from the hospital car parks during covid how low can you get . 

Oh so now I know why They dont target deisels thanks for that information that makes sence now . So do they target petrol cars aswel as hybrids I take it there the same yes ?

[Cyker]

Yeah I've heard of MPVs and SUVs being targeted in the past because their high ground clearance meant they didn't need to be jacked up. The more recent targeting of hybrids is, I think, mainly because they have much cleaner exhausts than normal petrol cars so the money metals are in better condition and not corroded or worn away by constant exhaust flow.

 

[Byrnew]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah I've heard of MPVs and SUVs being targeted in the past because their high ground clearance meant they didn't need to be jacked up. The more recent targeting of hybrids is, I think, mainly because they have much cleaner exhausts than normal petrol cars so the money metals are in better condition and not corroded or worn away by constant exhaust flow.

Ah right I see . What will they so when everyone eventually goes electric   ..probably rob the charging cables from the houses when there plugged in over night!! 

[forkingabout]

1 hour ago, Byrnew said:

Ah right I see . What will they so when everyone eventually goes electric   ..probably rob the charging cables from the houses when there plugged in over night!! 

Charging cables are already being stolen 🤣