PHEV's under attack?

[Cyker]

Sadly 13 years is not a lot of time; Toyota had been aiming for 2040 as that was the original cut-off date and the change to 2030 I suspect messed up their plans big-time, as they probably wanted to build up money with hybrid sales to fund the R&D into EV battery/electrical storage tech, as that really is the single primary problem for EVs that needs to be cracked.

It's like building a house - Have to start at the foundations, not the roof, and I suspect their foundations are not ready as they had wanted to get their solid-state batteries perfected and into mass production first and they're probably still 5-10 years out of that!

 

[Lawnmowerman]

I was toying with the bZ4thingy but I really think the PHEV is a sensible choice for my foreseeable future - this one will probably see me out.

I've said that before now and changed my mind 😀.

[Hornet3D]

On 7/31/2022 at 1:50 PM, Cyker said:

Oh right, yeah, can't argue with that...  

The problem is everyone has their hands in the pie, left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and everyone's skimming off backhanders so everything takes 5 times and long and costs 5 times more than it should.

I guess at least it keeps people employed I suppose...!  

Reminds me of a guy I was speaking to ages ago who'd been brought in from a firm in hong kong as a consultant on some construction project, and he was going crazy because he couldn't believe how long everything took due to even small changes needing to be sent back up the chain to be signed off by multiple people, things that had to be checked when they'd already been checked, lots of worker breaks, health and safety stuff etc.  I remember him saying in HK the project would have been finished already but they weren't even half-way through  

 

Yep, and after all that we still manage to cover blocks of flats with covering that is not fire retardant,

[srt]

What car you opt for depends on what you need it for and what access you have to charging.

For me the Rav4 PHEV is perfect and will provide 90%+ of my driving in EV mode AND be totally capable of the 400+ mile trips I occasionally do without any range anxiety (or lengthy charging delays). 

I also like the resilience factor a PHEV provides as it hedges against reliability issues by using two fuel alternatives. I should theoretically never again have to worry about petrol shortages (or power failures).

Unfortunately, in the eyes of some, PHEVs have an Outlander image  legacy which had elements of low usable EV range, poor fuel economy and primarily beloved by company car drivers for BIK / tax avoidance reasons, rather than any legitimate emission concerns.

The Toyota Rav4 PHEV significantly changes all of that as it gives a really useful daily EV range and is also economical when run as a HEV for longer journeys.

Not perfect for everyone, i.e. no benefit if you don't  have access to a home charger (where HEV would be best), but perfect for me. 

For longer journeys EVs depend too much on a charging network that currently is not up to scratch and where the Kw/hr charge rate matches, or increasingly now exceeds, petrol/diesel.

[Roy124]

10 hours ago, srt said:

What car you opt for depends on what you need it for and what access you have to charging.

For me the Rav4 PHEV is perfect and will provide 90%+ of my driving in EV mode AND be totally capable of the 400+ mile trips I occasionally do without any range anxiety (or lengthy charging delays). 

A perfect example of a particular usage profile.  I live 10 miles out of town; my typical journey would be 30 miles. I might do a 150 mile round trip per month.  When I run out of pure EV range I know I can benefit from regenerative braking. 

Would I also have self-charging? 

Personally the RAV4 is too big and too expensive.  A PHEV Yaris or Corolla however might be affordable. 

The imponderable that alters the cost/benefit equation is the price of recharging. 

[philip42h]

10 hours ago, srt said:

What car you opt for depends on what you need it for and what access you have to charging.

For me the Rav4 PHEV is perfect ...

While for me, at the time I bought a 4.5, the price premium of the PHEV made the HEV a better choice for me.

The question here isn't really which is the better car - the PHEV is - but whether the PHEV receives unduly favourable treatment under the tax system - which it clearly does in the UK - and whether it isn't time that "phevs", in general, stood or fell on their own merits? I think that it is.

[TonyHSD]

3 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

A perfect example of a particular usage profile.  I live 10 miles out of town; my typical journey would be 30 miles. I might do a 150 mile round trip per month.  When I run out of pure EV range I know I can benefit from regenerative braking. 

Would I also have self-charging? 

Personally the RAV4 is too big and too expensive.  A PHEV Yaris or Corolla however might be affordable. 

The imponderable that alters the cost/benefit equation is the price of recharging. 

Hi Roy,

you are perfectly suited by most modern Bev size of corolla or even some smaller ones like corsa e or mokka e which are actually a very nice cars. Problem with phev is that many if not most with exception of Toyota ones are not as efficient when has no power left into the hybrid Battery as they are not a smart hybrids in first place. The only smart hybrids that work in real world are Toyota ones , perhaps some Hondas but not so sure. Therefore its so much negative about phev, while Toyota phev are as good as hev variants, slightly heavier but with option for ev drive [range]. I personally prefer hev Toyota because suit my car use the most plus there is only one fuel to think about. I may buy a Prius phev in feature if no hev Prius or corolla available within my budget. 

[srt]

36 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

A perfect example of a particular usage profile.  I live 10 miles out of town; my typical journey would be 30 miles. I might do a 150 mile round trip per month.  When I run out of pure EV range I know I can benefit from regenerative braking. 

Would I also have self-charging? 

Personally the Rav4 is too big and too expensive.  A PHEV Yaris or Corolla however might be affordable. 

The imponderable that alters the cost/benefit equation is the price of recharging. 

Annualised over a longer term ownership, and with Toyotas 10 year warranty, the Rav 4 PHEV is reasonable for a private buyer. I think the size and suitabilty may change with improved i.e. smaller , more energy dense batteries. For now though the Rav4 PHEV size / weight ratiio is probably about the right balance

[Roy124]

Tony, quite agree.  We lucked in choosing a Toyota to downsize and also with the salesman who matched our needs regarding features and size. 

It's a fine line between BEV or HEV while the PHEV is the ideal at the moment, ignoring cost etc. 

The HEV certainly has the range and convenience benefits. 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, srt said:

Annualised over a longer term ownership, and with Toyotas 10 year warranty, the Rav 4 PHEV is reasonable for a private buyer.

Previously I have owned cars for long periods, a 5 year old E Class for 10 years and a 10 year old for 5. Now I am into the modern PCP system.  

The Annualised costs for Mercedes and Toyota are about the same. I know its apples and pears I know but easier to budget with minimal maintenance, a years breakdown cover, free Satnav updates, and no tyre replacement to worry about either. 

 

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

A PHEV Yaris or Corolla however ...

Ah well, if we are ordering cars that don't exist [yet], I'll have a Corolla Cross PHEV Excel please. I'd like an EV efficiency of 4 miles / kWh coupled with a 12 - 15 kWh Battery to give an optimistic range of between 50 and 60 miles. 🙂

[Roy124]

I take delivery of my Yaris Cross on Thursday.  I will be open to offers on a Corolla Cross and definitely consider ordering one next September. 

We certainly had not considered exchanging the Corolla last February, not yet 2 years old. 

[Roger_N]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I take delivery of my Yaris Cross on Thursday.  I will be open to offers on a Corolla Cross and definitely consider ordering one next September. 

We certainly had not considered exchanging the Corolla last February, not yet 2 years old. 

The best time to change your car is when you can get a really good deal, as long as you can afford to do it.

The age of the car is immaterial.

[Lawnmowerman]

With the spiralling costs of electricity, I find the PHEV to hit the sweet-spot. Disappointing though it is to lose the advantage over petrol, it is nevertheless, good to choose between the two.

I wonder how many have been saved from a difficult position by the awkward non-availability of the Bz4xthingamy - and indeed do current events render it still-born? 

[Roy124]

Roger, true.  We were invited yo an event.  We had no plans for a change and were waiting for the Corolla Cross. 

They had a Yaris Cross in the showroom and it offered significant size increases over the Corolla. 

The deal he put together is a no change payment. So we get a new car that will improve on seating position and luggage capacity.