Verso 2.0 D4D 2010 1AD-FTV possible fuel injector issue

[Unaz]

Hello everyone,

Newbie here. Apology for very long boring thread.

I have owned this verso for the last 5 years. Currently at just over 100k miles. It has never been very efficient returning 30mpg on local and 48mpg on long run max. But last week I did 180 mile trip. On my way back about 10 miles in, vsc light came on along with engine management light. Car started juddering (more like misfiring). I came off motorway and had a good look under the bonnet just to make sure nothing loose. Checked connectors for abs sensors. All looked good. Looked in owners manual and found I could still drive it so back on motorway. Few miles in same juddering/misfiring, I ease off and it all became smooth again. When I got home I plugged in to computer and found 2 fault codes.

P062D And C1201

Now some history of issues before this. 

I have always had issue with cold start. It has always taken long crank to start when cold. Once it starts it sends out white smoke and runs fine after. Warm starts are all fine. I have replaced all 4 glow plugs as they had done 100k. 2 of them were dead. It's has made slight difference but still white smoke and long crank on cold mornings. Initially I thought it was scv (before this incident) but original one from Toyota is around £290 so decided not to just replace everything. After looking into fault codes I took injector #1 out to get the part number. Bit black and oily with bottom part bit rusty so not making great seal and didn't look very healthy. I'll probably change all copper seals as minimum. Now looking at injectors mine are (23670-0R100) ones with top glued on and apparently they can't be refurbished according to some forums. Also they fairly expensive as only available new and not refurbished. I've noticed D4D engine has been fitted with another type (23670-0R030) where injector head is removable so they can be refurbished and are lot cheaper as a result. I was wondering if they were interchangeable? Could they be coded to my engine? They are slightly bigger from top but I think there's enough space under the cover to accommodate them.

Anyone with expertise here know what my issue might be and how I could resolve it please?

I'm aircraft mechanic but with some knowledge of cars. 

[Ranzazif]

Hi i have same issue with same Codes with same Engine.this is very tricky.some fourm says its Driver Moudule some says its injector.

https://corolla-club.ru/doc1/967a10e77bac51cba8b4094310387236.html

This is very useful link but i am not expert so can't understand enough. If you find out the solution let me know that it was injector or ECU..

[Unaz]

Thanks for the link. It has some useful information. Trouble is with any of these intermittent faults, it's difficult to diagnose. I don't have an oscilloscope and seems like that's the only way to test injector driver. The fact it idles rough but runs fine at higher revs makes me think it's more of injector problem than injector driver. Maybe high pressure of fuel overcomes sticky injector. 

I've relearned pilot quantity and although it hasn't made any difference to rough idle, it actually gave me 5mpg more than it's usual top mpg.

I discovered injectors on verso can't be refurbished so only option is, used off eBay or brand new. Although Toyota Auris 2.0 D4D injectors can be refurbished so next thing to find out is if they can be programmed to Verso as they much cheaper (refurbished). They slightly taller from top but I think that should be ok as there's enough room to accommodate them.

Will let you know how I get on. In the mean time if you find out anymore information please let me know. 

[RayOfLeamington]

Hi Unaz,

I had injector issues with my 2AD-FHV. These are more expensive (Piezo) however they're similar to other Denso injectors as regards very few places able to get parts to refurb.

My only attemp of assistance is to suggest doing what I did. I pulled all the injectors and had them tested. Maybe they could refurb.. it depends on parts, but first you need to find out if they are faulty.

I'd recommend https://www.darwendiesels.com/ as this is what they do for a living. They're able to do denso injectors and were the only place that I found in UK capable to test my piezo injectors (therefore they're no lightweights). For testing they clean, then evaluate spray pattern and then run 8 hours cycling to look at flow rate consistency (and leak rate).

With mine, one was nOK due to high backflow (scrap) and another was still working but backflow out of spec.

I got two from a breakers with 3 month warranty and got them tested also at Darwen. One was also high backflow so I got it refunded based on the test report, and used the good one to replace my scrap one. My issue didn't go away as it turned out not to be injectors (huge carbon build up in manifolds and in combustion chamber + a burnt out DPF brick)

 

[Unaz]

1 hour ago, RayOfLeamington said:

Hi Unaz,

I had injector issues with my 2AD-FHV. These are more expensive (Piezo) however they're similar to other Denso injectors as regards very few places able to get parts to refurb.

My only attemp of assistance is to suggest doing what I did. I pulled all the injectors and had them tested. Maybe they could refurb.. it depends on parts, but first you need to find out if they are faulty.

I'd recommend https://www.darwendiesels.com/ as this is what they do for a living. They're able to do denso injectors and were the only place that I found in UK capable to test my piezo injectors (therefore they're no lightweights). For testing they clean, then evaluate spray pattern and then run 8 hours cycling to look at flow rate consistency (and leak rate).

With mine, one was nOK due to high backflow (scrap) and another was still working but backflow out of spec.

I got two from a breakers with 3 month warranty and got them tested also at Darwen. One was also high backflow so I got it refunded based on the test report, and used the good one to replace my scrap one. My issue didn't go away as it turned out not to be injectors (huge carbon build up in manifolds and in combustion chamber + a burnt out DPF brick)

 

Thank you for some very useful information. I took injectors out to see what state nozzles were in. They don't look great. All corroded and full of gunk. I've cleaned the inlet manifold and egr. Thankfully no dpf fitted to mine. How did you get piston heads cleaned? I can see some carbon build-up through injector holes. Also I put in some system cleaner and so far it's been few weeks, code hasn't showed up. Although I think it's only matter of time. It idles rough but runs fine at higher revs. 

If and when they play up again I might just put all 4 new injectors at cost of about £1000 considering there's lot of hassle with testing and buying old ones off eBay.

How much did it end up costing you in the end for injector part if you don't mind me asking?

[Unaz]

I've got injectors tested and 3 were knackered (4th I couldn't get out for testing). So I decided to replace them all 4. Managed to borrow correct removal tool and got 4th out too. Will be coding them in tomorrow, hopefully things work out.

[Hybrid21]

Keep us posted Umar, my daughter is having similar issues with her RAV4 and the garage are struggling to sort it ☹️

[Unaz]

12 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Keep us posted Umar, my daughter is having similar issues with her RAV4 and the garage are struggling to sort it ☹️

Coded injectors today. Fired it up and it was all a bit smokey. Gone through pilot quantity relearn and smoke disappeared. Not sure if it's mind over matter or new injectors are having effect but it feels more responsive moving off. Once on move can't tell if it's more responsive or the same. Only done 200 meter test drive so can't really tell much. I'll be taking it to work tomorrow on 30 mile round trip. Will feedback. 

[Unaz]

23 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Keep us posted Umar, my daughter is having similar issues with her RAV4 and the garage are struggling to sort it ☹️

This is what injectors looked like on mine. All with squeezed nozzle neck. I was told by injector testing place that it's result of carbon deposits sticking and glowing red in the heat. There's a moving part within nozzle which can't freely move around once that happens. Eventually solenoid gives up with increased work out it has to do due to squeezed neck. 

Unfortunately we couldn't find new nozzles and even if we did likelihood was the solenoids were too worn out and not worth repairing the injector.

You can look through live Data stream to see injector values. High injector value usually point to failing injectors. As a last resort you will have to take them out and inspect nozzles. If they look good then get injectors tested. If they look like mine don't bother. If you do end up getting them out for inspection make sure to put new washers or you will have problem next time they need to come out and clean the bore properly before you put them back. 

[Hybrid21]

Garage changed all four injectors Umar, apparently it started but will not rev up.

They are apparently getting a Toyota dealer to check the software.

[Unaz]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:15 PM, Hybrid21 said:

Garage changed all four injectors Umar, apparently it started but will not rev up.

They are apparently getting a Toyota dealer to check the software.

Did you get it sorted?

Mine occasionally smokes a little on cold starts. Sometimes even taking quite a long crank. I think it could well be that injector driver has some issues too but I won't be replacing that in a rush. Toyota's d4d engine is bag of spanners. Terrible engine. I'm glad they finally given up on it and started buying diesel engines from BMW.

[Hybrid21]

Hi Umar, thanks for asking, they got the car back a few days ago. It had to be MOT't as it was off the road for quite some time in the garage. 

Apparently the new injectors had to be filed down as they were not sealing properly, to me it sounds like the wrong injectors ?

Anyway car returned to them running ok and MOT'd for a year.

Some work had to be done for the mot including handbrake parts. Total cost £4000 😕

It was either that or scrap the car 😕

 

 

[Unaz]

35 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Hi Umar, thanks for asking, they got the car back a few days ago. It had to be MOT't as it was off the road for quite some time in the garage. 

Apparently the new injectors had to be filed down as they were not sealing properly, to me it sounds like the wrong injectors ?

Anyway car returned to them running ok and MOT'd for a year.

Some work had to be done for the mot including handbrake parts. Total cost £4000 😕

It was either that or scrap the car 😕

 

 

Oh no. These Toyota diesel engines are very unreliable from my experience. Best avoided unless you get one with BMW unit in it.

[Hybrid21]

I'll stick to my petrol hybrid 👍

[Unaz]

1 minute ago, Hybrid21 said:

I'll stick to my petrol hybrid 👍

Definitely. Toyota knows how to make a good petrol and hybrid but sadly they failed with diesel.