Key Programming

[flashclick]

My car is a 2007 Avensis hatchback UK model. It has a grey sub key and two master keys. I recently accidentally lost one of the master keys in the sea. Picking up the second master key, it unlocks and locks the car but refuses to start the engine!! They are original keys, supplied with the car to me from new. I then booked the car into my local Toyota Garage and today took the car in. They have just sheepishly told me that without a working master key they cannot programme the second key. So I am stuck with the grey subkey unless I want to Shell out 1200 UK pounds for a whole new transponder and two new keys. Surely there must be a way of reprogramming the existing transponder to keys... just as Toyota would have done for the car as new?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Split from 13 years old topic.

[Hornet3D]

I don't know if they will help but there are a few videos on you tube, just search on 'toyota key programming without master key'.  I came across them when I was looking to have a second key programmed prompted by horror stories like yours.

[flash22]

You should be able to do it with techstream without the need for the master key, the manual key learn process needs the master tho

 

the problem is the dealers don't have the staff that worked on this age of car to know the systems and tbh they have given you the, go away price

where are you located ?

[Cyker]

Maybe you should set up a little side-hustle coding keys flash?   

 

[flash22]

All the gear and no eyed deer, i have most of the adapters to read and program keys inc those odd Merc infrared ones, not played with the RF immobilizer chips much

[2009joe]

quick question with master keys etc i have a 2014 toyota avensis with 2  3 button flip keys how do i know which one is my master key as the both look the same would it say it on them by chance dont fancy running into the same problem 

[Cyker]

If it has remote buttons it is a 'master' key - You used to get 2 of them and a grey 'valet' key back when they still gave you 3 keys.

Try both of them now and then just to make sure they still work!

What I normally do is use one, and give the other one to the dealer for use when it's being serviced so that it gets used at least once a year to reduce the risk of it drifting out of sync (Although I don't know if that's possible as I'm not sure how the immobilizer code system works in Toyotas!)

[2009joe]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

If it has remote buttons it is a 'master' key - You used to get 2 of them and a grey 'valet' key back when they still gave you 3 keys.

Try both of them now and then just to make sure they still work!

What I normally do is use one, and give the other one to the dealer for use when it's being serviced so that it gets used at least once a year to reduce the risk of it drifting out of sync (Although I don't know if that's possible as I'm not sure how the immobilizer code system works in Toyotas!)

thanks must do it i have a key that i use all the time and its starting to get scratched up lol and the other one looks like its bran new as not sure it at all but must use it some day been a really long time since i used it. tbh was half thinking of buying a cheap one from eBay and coding it as wont scratch up my other one so bad the flip key part is kina sticking on it have to clean ever so ofton 

[Cyker]

If you know the coding procedure for the car it's always worth having more keys; IIRC you can have 3 or 4 keys max coded to the car (Can't remember if that includes the valet key tho'!).

 

[Hornet3D]

I didn't know there was a limit on the keys but two remote keys is the minimum I feel safe with.  When we purchased out Aygo at the start of this year it only came with one remote and one dumb key so I purchased another and had that programmed which cost me just over £100.  That included the new key and the programming that took the dealer just over the hour.  The new key also came with the blade cut so that it would work with the ignition which would not be the case with a new remote from other sources.

[flashclick]

19 hours ago, Hornet3D said:

I don't know if they will help but there are a few videos on you tube, just search on 'toyota key programming without master key'.  I came across them when I was looking to have a second key programmed prompted by horror stories like yours.

Yes, but Youtube is a mass of variant information. Which video / videos are the 'right' ones? That is why I took the car in to the dealership in the first place.

[flashclick]

19 hours ago, flash22 said:

You should be able to do it with techstream without the need for the master key, the manual key learn process needs the master tho

 

the problem is the dealers don't have the staff that worked on this age of car to know the systems and tbh they have given you the, go away price

where are you located ?

Yes they did. The grey 'manual' or Sub / Valet key works and I now only have the one remaining remote master key. It locks and unlocks the doors but wont start the engine. Also, if I use the remote to lock the car, I MUST use the remote to unlock it otherwise the alarm goes off and I have no way of stopping it without that remote. So If, God Forbid, I lose the second remote ...  Located Greater London UK. I reckoned that this particular Toyota Service depot didn't have a clue. So, how do I find a place that does? There are plenty of 'cut price offers' on Amazon, but .... advice please.

[flashclick]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

If you know the coding procedure for the car it's always worth having more keys; IIRC you can have 3 or 4 keys max coded to the car (Can't remember if that includes the valet key tho'!).

 

Thanks Cyker, but I now only have the one remote master. And the grey sub key. According to Toyota, they must have a working master key to programme a second key. I wonder how Toyota programmed the keys in the first place when the car was commissioned?

[Hornet3D]

3 hours ago, flashclick said:

Yes, but Youtube is a mass of variant information. Which video / videos are the 'right' ones? That is why I took the car in to the dealership in the first place.

I found this to be the most comprehensive on the different types of key used by Toyota.

 

 

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, flashclick said:

Thanks Cyker, but I now only have the one remote master. And the grey sub key. According to Toyota, they must have a working master key to programme a second key. I wonder how Toyota programmed the keys in the first place when the car was commissioned?

Sadly that is the official line from the dealers - If you don't have a working master key, they will tell you all the locks and the main ECU need to be replaced, which is... expensive.

The way they're programmed from factory is, if there are no codes stored on the ECU it goes into a factory mode, and there is a procedure that lets it take the first key code that is given to it.

Some people have used a chip-reader to delete the codes from the ECU and put it back in that state, but this isn't something for people like you and I, as you need to take the ECU out of its casing, stick a jumper clip on the chip that stores the codes, and know what address the key codes are stored to erase them.

There were companies that did this if you sent them your ECU and keys, but all the ones I knew have long disappeared.

Flash22 reckons it can be done through Toyota Techstream as well, which would be the easier option, but dealers for some reason won't do this (Assuming it is actually possible!), so you'd need to find someone who has techstream or buy it and the interface yourself if you wanted to try that route.

Another option which a lot of people have opted for is to get a replacement ECU, locks, ignition barrel and keys from a breakers yard and have those swapped into the car - Has to be from as similar a car as possible tho'.

 

[flashclick]

By working, what do they mean? A key that is recognised by the car and locks / unlock the doors - which this one does - or one that also needs to recognise the immobiliser? I've just watched the video posted above. As I see it, the immobiliser is not releasing the ignition using the remote, but does if I use the grey sub key. Since this remaining remote key is one of the original masters, it should not be beyond a competent technician to unlock the immobiliser. The codes should still be in the key. This dealership merely wanted to replace the whole system at a massive cost. The new system would still need to be programmed from scratch. If they can do that....hence my confusion.

[Cyker]

It has to disable the immobilizer - If it doesn't then it's essentially 'not working' in their eyes as it means the ECU isn't recognising it.  

Either the code is not recognised, or there's something physically wrong with the key and it's not receiving the challenge signal, or sending a response code.

[flashclick]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

It has to disable the immobilizer - If it doesn't then it's essentially 'not working' in their eyes as it means the ECU isn't recognising it.  

Either the code is not recognised, or there's something physically wrong with the key and it's not receiving the challenge signal, or sending a response code.

Yes. Does anyone know a dealership or locksmith or other competent tech in or around London, who could reset the immobiliser back to factory default and reset it to the remote key?  After all, that is what anyone would need to do even if the dealership did replace the whole system and got new keys.

[flash22]

pm me a rough location

they stopped using the master/slave system back in 2008/09 iirc

 

I will break down how the key works - the buttons what are powered by a Battery only do the door locking what is user programmable, and inside the key you have a passive chip for the immobilizer

The way the chip works is when you put the key in the ignition and turn it, then coil sends a signal that excites the passive chip, it sends its signal back what is verified by the Immobilizer ecu allowing the car to start (i won't go into further technical detail)

[flashclick]

31 minutes ago, flash22 said:

pm me a rough location

they stopped using the master/slave system back in 2008/09 iirc

 

I will break down how the key works - the buttons what are powered by a battery only do the door locking what is user programmable, and inside the key you have a passive chip for the immobilizer

The way the chip works is when you put the key in the ignition and turn it, then coil sends a signal that excites the passive chip, it sends its signal back what is verified by the Immobilizer ecu allowing the car to start (i won't go into further technical detail)

Ah. There is a separate insert inside the fob. Otherwise it is a plain fob key case with no 'external' chip. This insert is the original that came with the key. The only thing that has been changed is the Battery inside. This is accessible from the underside of the insert. I shall look to PM you

[flash22]

Click on my name, then click message

[flashclick]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

It has to disable the immobilizer - If it doesn't then it's essentially 'not working' in their eyes as it means the ECU isn't recognising it.  

Either the code is not recognised, or there's something physically wrong with the key and it's not receiving the challenge signal, or sending a response code.

So, it would appear that the remote key has malfunctioned and only locks and unlocks the doors. If I do that to lock the doors then use the grey sub key to unlock the driver door manually, the car alarm goes off until I use the remote key to unlock the doors and stop the noise. The grey key will then start the engine. If the immobiliser requires a challenge signal from the key, why does the sub key work?

[flash22]

Sorry, i was thinking of the later type fobs

2 button fob - chip arrowed (note there are 2 other types, some 3 button fobs have a screw down Battery cover)

 

[flashclick]

How can I send you a photo from my computer.