Will Toyota ever put their hybrid drivetrain in the Aygo X?

[davidif]

My partner is likely to change her car in the next 12/18 months and is interested in an Aygo X. It will certainly be an auto transmission and I believe that a model with HSD would be a perfect town car, much more so than the Yaris as I believe it has better visibility (this is, so far, only an observation from sitting in an Aygo X in the showroom- I have also driven several Yaris Hybrids as courtesy cars)

Is this likely to happen??

I must say from my own standpoint I really like the 'look' of the Aygo X!

 

[davidif]

To add, if they were worried about loosing sales of the potentially more profitable Yaris they could de-tune the drivetrain or maybe shoehorn the previous generation Yaris drivetrain in.

 

[forkingabout]

Toyota have already said no several times when asked on social media about any hybrid drive train appearing in the Aygo X as it would raise costs to much.

[davidif]

1 hour ago, forkingabout said:

Toyota have already said no several times when asked on social media about any hybrid drive train appearing in the Aygo X as it would raise costs to much.

That is a shame.

[Cyker]

That's the official line. However, given how much the Aygo (X) now costs (Near enough the same as the Mk3 Yaris hybrid new!), and the fact that it's bigger than the Yaris Mk1 and Mk2, I suspect the next version of the Aygo will be a hybrid.

You could understand the cost argument when it was ~£7k new, but now that it's £14-17k that line about it being a budget car has gone out the window!

That said we've only got 8 years so the Aygo, Yaris and Corolla might cease to exist due to nobody figuring out a way of making batteries smaller without sacrificing energy content, and all new cars will be giant land barges.

London will be a fantastically fun place to drive around when that happens, where 2 SUVs can't pass each other already off a lot of main roads!

[davidif]

Cyker, you make a good point about the cost argument. my partner would happily buy a Hybrid Aygo X(if it existed) at say £1.5/2k below a base Yaris.

[Cyker]

Me too - The Aygo X is a much better size for me, definitely more Yarisy than the Mk4 as it's short and high, which was a hallmark of the older Yarisusesiues. If it had the nicer interior and tech of the Mk4 Yaris (Like the sensors and HUD) it would have been a much stronger choice for me! Bonus points if they could put in the sliding rear seats!

I've not driven an Aygo X tho' so I don't know if you can throw it around corners as well as you can the Mk4 - The Mk4 being so low and stiff does give it really nice handling feel!

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

now that it's £14-17k that line about it being a budget car has gone out the window!

So how much do you think the Aygo's competitors cost?

Hyundai i10 - £13.5K to £16.7K

Kia Picanto - £12.3K to £17.1K

Suzuki Ignis - £14.7K to £17.3K

Fiat 500 - £17.2K to £20.3K

VW Up - £13.9K (3 door), £14.3K (5 door) to £18.1K

Etc.

20 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The Aygo X is a much better size for me, definitely more Yarisy than the Mk4 as it's short and high, which was a hallmark of the older Yarisusesiues. If it had the nicer interior and tech of the Mk4 Yaris

Isn' t that the Yaris??

[Cyker]

2 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

So how much do you think the Aygo's competitors cost?

Hyundai i10 - £13.5K to £16.7K

Kia Picanto - £12.3K to £17.1K

Suzuki Ignis - £14.7K to £17.3K

Fiat 500 - £17.2K to £20.3K

Etc.

The thing is, it's not quite the same - the Aygo's brief is that it's supposed to be a low cost budget A-segment car - This is why you had really anal cost-cutting measures like the single boot strut and just a piece of glass for the boot.

Those other cars (Well maybe less so the Picanto) have been been more oriented at a higher price point with lots of tech and high performance options. The Fiat 500 especially is a fashion car which is why it commands so much money.

I know a lot of the cost increase is due to mandatory safety systems, but at this price level none of these cars can be considered budget cars any more.

 

2 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Isn' t that the Yaris??

Not the current one; The Mk4 is lower, and wider and longer. It's within my acceptable limits, but the Mk1 and Mk2 had much better dimensions for my use case. I believe I've said before it is the least Yarisy Yaris of the 4 generations. The headroom is bad and the visibility atrocious, and it's practically a Fiesta at this point in terms of stance, size , handling etc.

The AygoX is much more like the Mk1 and Mk2 Yaris - High seating position, short, narrow and tall, which is what I would prefer as it would make squeezing past SUVs and parking in spaces SUVs can't park in that much easier. I'd never get an AygoX as it stands, as it is functionally worse than my previous cars, and I just wouldn't pay so much money (And it is a lot!) for a car that is a step backwards, as that just makes no sense. Esp. as the residuals would be much worse than the Mk4.

If it had the running gear and tech of the Mk4, that would be close to being my idea of an optimal modern car - I'm all about big car tech and performance in as small car as possible! I've never gone with this idea that just because a car is small it has to be cheap and nasty - It's why the fact that the Mk4 could have a HUD that swung me over the Jazz - How many other cars in this segment have a real HUD??

If they made an Yaris Mk2/Aygo(/X)-sized car with e.g. hybrid/EV AWD, power doors and boot, adaptive headlights, a HUD, sliding rear seats, alcantara seats (With *&%$& lumbar support Toyota! Lumbar support!!!), 360 degree cameras, heated vented seats and steering wheel, self-parking etc. that would be right up my alley!  

Sadly such a thing is very unlikely as only crazy people like me would buy it  (I still get people asking me why I didn't get a Corolla for the money I put down on the Yaris!)

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The thing is, it's not quite the same - the Aygo's brief is that it's supposed to be a low cost budget A-segment car

It is the same. All the cars I listed are in the city car bracket including the Aygo.

Budget cars are the likes of Dacia and MG - the cheapest Dacia (the base Sandero) is now from £12.6K and the cheapest MG (the base 3) is now from £13.3K.

[davidif]

I see both sides to this argument. However I'm with Cyker in so far as the Aygo (as opposed to the other cars mentioned by Mike) seems to have historically been built with more extreme cost cutting measures e.g.. a glass 'tailgate', one strut to keep it open and pop out side windows. The others, particularly the Koreans and Suzuki have more of a feel of a smaller conventional design e.g.. a proper steel panel tailgate and wind-up rear windows etc.(I discount the UP! which I see as more of an Aygo clone at VW prices!)

 

 

[Puglet]

I doubt it as well, given the timing of Aygo X release and normal car lifecycle that would get it to 2030. The Yaris drivetrain also gives an edge both in cost and function over the Aygo X. If history is anything to go by the previous versions hardly changed mechanically over their lifecycle bar some emissions tweaks.

Remember seeing some concept pics of Toyota electric cars and one of them looked suspiciously very like the current Aygo X styling, so maybe that is the future.  

As for the cheap city car, our 107 back in the day was but those days have gone. Back then 2008, we looked at Fiat 500, back then it could be cheap, but with all options available, it could become pretty expensive, a friend of ours turned an £8K car into a 12K car quite easily, but that was the market Fiat were pitching at. Our Mk2 108 cost more, but it had more tech, airbags and was better built and it had to because the city car game had moved on. 

To be fair to our 107 that cost new the same as we paid for a new Ford Fiesta Mk3 back in late 80s, but the 107 had fuel injection, power steering, airbags, leccy windows, remote locking, cd player etc. etc. so even with its faults how they did it for the price still amazes me.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

It is the same. All the cars I listed are in the city car bracket including the Aygo.

Budget cars are the likes of Dacia and MG - the cheapest Dacia (the base Sandero) is now from £12.6K and the cheapest MG (the base 3) is now from £13.3K.

That's exactly what I'm saying!! The Aygo is NOT a budget car any more, so the argument for not putting a hybrid drive train in it because it is a budget car makes no sense!!!

 

[flash22]

The 1.5 in the gen 3 yaris will not meet the new euro 7 standards, don't forget these cars are in design and R&D years before production hit the roads, the next model Aygo/facelift will already be in the prototype stage

 

cheap and car are strange bedfellows these days

inflation will drive down the prices and flatten the market as sales will drop off

[TonyHSD]

Toyota perhaps won’t put Yaris hybrid drivetrain into Aygo because of cannibalism effect, the Aygo will cut sales of the Yaris where Yaris is slightly more expensive.,higher profits. A top spec Aygo comes close to entry level Yaris hybrid. That was my point of comparison in other post about Yaris and Aygo . These two can be very interchangeable, whoever likes manual go for Aygo or if you like auto go for Yaris hybrid because Toyota hybrids are the best automatics on the market along with full Evs. Just my thoughts. 👍

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The Aygo is NOT a budget car any more

I've never said it was.

However it is a city car - quite different to a budget car, and Toyota's reasons for not making the Aygo a hybrid (in the sense of a full hybrid) do make sense because this moves the Aygo up to being too close to the Yaris in terms of price. and not all of Europe is so hybrid centered. This is why in parts of Europe we have the 1.0 Yaris, where there is a market for a petrol supermini sized car forming the lower part of that range, and providing a larger car alternative to the higher parts of the Aygo range.

[Donrald]

I have a new Aygo X Exclusive on order, probably coming next week, but we have had an older Aygo for 13 years. The new model is a different car with respect to size and comfort. Our old Aygo Blu has been great but it is a basic car. I think it pushing it a bit to market the new Aygo X as basic. Yes, it would be good if it was hybrid or pure Battery but as others have said the size dictates against that. It is a bold step for a manufacturer to develop a new petrol car today but I am sure the market is there for it. In my case depreciation is not an issue as I will probably be keeping the new Aygo for 10 years or more. Probably until I can’t drive any more! Our current one cost £9,000 new 13 years ago. I have been offered £2500. Depreciation therefore over 13 years is £6,500. I can’t grumble.

[haelewyn]

How many miles did it do in 13 years and what did you replace / repair on it ?
Always nice to know.

[sedg]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:44 PM, Cyker said:

That's exactly what I'm saying!! The Aygo is NOT a budget car any more, so the argument for not putting a hybrid drive train in it because it is a budget car makes no sense!!!

 

Yep Spot on Right!

[Derek.w]

Simple answer NO it wont ever happen

More likley to just turn it into a all electric vehicle at some future date.

[forkingabout]

A lot of the big car brands have killed of there very small petrol powered cars as there just not cost effective to manufacturer anymore. 

The Aygo X is already selling at a premium price, adding the hybrid power unit will just push that price even higher so people will either just order a Yaris instead or go look elsewhere.

Toyota will have spent there time & money researching the Aygo X requirements before launching the vehicle, if there was a need for a hybrid power train the Aygo X would have been offered with one. 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota have said they won't offer the Aygo X as a hybrid in order to keep both manufacturing and retail costs down.

Another reason they don't need the Aygo X as a hybrid, is that they already meet fleet average emissions across their range.

Toyota have also never described  the Aygo X as a budget car - only a city car or a compact crossover.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Simple answer NO it wont ever happen

More likley to just turn it into a all electric vehicle at some future date.

Now there's an interesting conundrum... do they go straight to EV with it or hybridize it first while the others get made into EVs first to stop it cannibalizing sales...?

[haelewyn]

Or are they just going to produce this model until 2030 and then stop completely ?

Or build it for different markets than countries where ice is still sold by that time ?

I wouldn't be surprised if many European buyers still want to buy a petrol car before you can't buy them any more. 

Could be the second hand value of ice car will be high for ever after that. 

[Big_D]

I think there would be a good market for the Aygo Hybrid. A lot of people, my good Lady included, would like a small car with a the hybrid drivetrain. For some people, it's about reducing CO2 emissions with a hybrid engine, while for others it's about the fuel economy.