Strange electrical issue on 2013 Aygo

[fordulike]

At the recommendation of Bob (flash22), I've started this thread to see if any forum members can throw some ideas into the pot, as to the strange electrical issue I'm experiencing with my Aygo.

Here is a copy and pasted excerpt from the Relax Warranty thread, where I originally posted:

' Occasionally on firing up the engine, the engine runs fine, but the P/S light and ABS light stays on. There is definitely no power to the steering and also there is no power to the interior fan and rev counter shows zero (even when engine revved)

Sometimes it stays in this state for up to 30 seconds, when a relay click is heard behind the dash and hey presto, car runs and drives normally. Sometimes the lights won't go off and I have to switch off engine and restart, until everything is normal '

[flash22]

i will have a look at the wiring diagrams and see if these have anything in common

what is the Battery voltage with it off and running (Alternator) ?

[fordulike]

10 minutes ago, flash22 said:

i will have a look at the wiring diagrams and see if these have anything in common

what is the battery voltage with it off and running (Alternator) ?

I left the car with the dealer, until they check it out next week, so can't test now.

Last time I checked, which was first time it ever happened, I think the Battery was 12.6v and alternator 14.2v.

This was using a cheapy plug in lighter socket volt meter, so may not be entirely accurate.

[flash22]

It's an odd one, not sure if the blower is a red herring, ABS and EPS have the IG relay in common, ABS, EPS And Blower all have the same C2 earth point, iirc it's located in the footwell

 

[fordulike]

Nice info and sounds promising, especially that specifically all the issues connect to the same earth point. So, possibly a corroded earth point, maybe causing a voltage and/or an amperage drop to those circuits. Maybe not so badly corroded that it causes the fault every time!

Does it highlight on your diagrams, where that earth point terminates at the chassis?

At the end of the day, I'd be happy if they turned around and said that corrosion is what's caused it. Even if it costs me a few hundered quid for them to clean up the connections.

 

[flash22]

It could also be that IG relay or the IG from the ignition switch

i can't access those diagrams ATM

[fordulike]

With my initial thoughts and your info, it does point to the IG relay, IG from switch and/or earth point.

Why on earth the Toyota tech thought that the speedometer unit was the issue, is beyond me 🙄

[flash22]

12 minutes ago, fordulike said:

With my initial thoughts and your info, it does point to the IG relay, IG from switch and/or earth point.

Why on earth the Toyota tech thought that the speedometer unit was the issue, is beyond me 🙄

Because the computer told him to !!!, if i was a betting man i would say the next shot with the parts shotgun will be fuse box, loom or ecu

[fordulike]

3 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Because the computer told him to !!!, if i was a betting man i would say the next shot with the parts shotgun will be fuse box, loom or ecu

Ha ha, yeah, my mate did say alot of the main dealer workshop peeps these days are computer nerds and not old school grease monkeys.

[flash22]

More like parts fitters, you pay peanuts.......................

It's not the tools, it's knowing how to use them correctly and how to interpret the information

[fordulike]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

More like parts fitters, you pay peanuts.......................

It's not the tools, it's knowing how to use them correctly and how to interpret the information

I think I might have mentioned this in a couple of posts and I may have dreamt this, but aren't all Toyota dealer workshop technicians supposed to be trained at some sort of Toyota academy?

If I'm correct, that's one of the reasons I have always taken my car to a Toyota dealer for servicing etc.

[flash22]

Usually they do on the job training, maybe a short course, but otherwise it has to be paid for, and the dealer looses a pair of hands for the period of training, the city and guilds qualification has very little hands on these days

i have been around the trades and the amount of "techs" that move around is unreal, one i knew went from 5 years at Nissan fully certified to BMW as they will not pay what the person is worth, when they can get a minimum wage drone to do the same basic job

[fordulike]

Well, they had the car, again, for the past few days. Collects it today and the guy says they been looking it over for a couple of days, but can't find a fault (probably read as, yeah we started it a couple of times and there were no persistent dashboard lights, so we didn't bother looking into it further 😳). I had actually printed out a letter with my observations when the fault occurs and gave it to the dealer at the start of the week, in the hope that might help fault finding.

Anyway, the guy says it might have been an electrical connection, which has solved the issue by looking at them? So, no actual way of knowing if they have checked the harness/fuse/relay system, to confirm this fact.

Obviously, I'll drive it over the next few weeks, to see if the fault rears its ugly head again, but I do feel like the dealership has kinda washed their hands of the situation. Sorry dealership, it's not a top of the range Supra, but every customer should feel important and secure that their car will be 100% reliable when warranty work has been carried out.

Along with the debacle of the original part taking 3 weeks to arrive, only for it to be fitted but not cure the issue, I'm writing a letter to Toyota HQ. I'm still no better off than I was over a month ago. Well, £342 diagnostics fee down, which I'm still chasing up 🙄.

I'm not expecting Toyota to lavish me with a new Aygo for nothing lol, but they have potentially lost a loyal  long-term customer. Not because of the cars, coz they're awesome, but the dealer, as I just don't feel happy about having my car serviced/repaired there. Unfortunately, there's no other Toyota dealer nearby.

 

[flash22]

i swear Aygo's must not like this hot weather, 2-3 on here with no start problems, and i looked at one the other day for a friend of a friend

 

You get nothing for loyalty these days, unless it's small local business

[fordulike]

You know folks, when I spoke to the service guy about the diagnostics fee fiasco, I told him I wasn't after rocking the boat, I just wanted some clarity on the situtation. His words were, if you need to rock the boat, rock the boat.

Now, after over a month of, certainly not the best experience in the world from the Toyota dealership, I'm taking it up with Toyota Customer Relations.

I've fired off a tasteful, but strongly worded email to Toyota, so watch this space 😬

[Hornet3D]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:19 PM, fordulike said:

I think I might have mentioned this in a couple of posts and I may have dreamt this, but aren't all Toyota dealer workshop technicians supposed to be trained at some sort of Toyota academy?

If I'm correct, that's one of the reasons I have always taken my car to a Toyota dealer for servicing etc.

That was certainly the case a good few years ago, I know because I was a member of the MR2 owners club and Toyota arranged a tour of the facility.   It was an impressive place and they certainly had all the tools such as almost a complete Supra engine, gearbox and running gear in a test frame with control panel from where they could activate hundreds of fault conditions.

[fordulike]

Forgot to mention in my previous posts, but when they replaced the, unnecessary, speedo unit, the mileage was zero.

That I'm not too fussed about, but would that affect the resale value and should they have programmed my existing mileage into the unit as part of the repair?

[flash22]

Yes it's part of the job to correct the mileage, FFS, who are these dealers employing

[fordulike]

They've changed over franchise within the last year, so probably brought their own monkeys with them 🤣

[fordulike]

@flash22 to set the mileage properly, do they just hook it up to that techstream thingy?

[flash22]

yes, 10 min job, original mileage is stored in the ecu

[fordulike]

Well, an update today.

I had fired off two emails over the weekend. One to Toyota Customer Relations regarding the diagnostics fee and one to the dealer, asking them to sort out the speedo mileage and also to rectify the passenger side interior vent.

The vent wasn't refitted correctly when they originally took the dashboard off.

Got a call from the service manager this morning.

Firstly, he was very apologetic, probably coz Toyota are now involved.

He explained that they couldn't do anything about the speedometer reading, as they aren't allowed to change it due to anti tampering something or other. Just read your post @flash22.

The car's going in tomorrow to sort the vent out and the diagnostic fee thing has been escalated to the dealer's area manager. Apparently, their policy with warranties has always been not to refund a diagnostic fee.

A pretty stressful past month, but at least results are heading in the right direction.

[flash22]

What utter BS Toyota supplied an OEM instrument cluster, of course they can program it, a main dealer has the required security clearance to do it

Diag fee's, they found the issue, so it should not have been charged - it's not your fault they misdiagnosed the issue, what is not yet resolved

If you paid by credit card, just drop the hint of a chargeback - they will not like that as they get charged a fee and the transaction flagged too many of those, and it causes them problems

Push the issue with Toyota customer services

[fordulike]

I'm just wondering if they are trying to hide the original fook up from Toyota for some reason.

If they reprogrammed the original mileage, maybe that needs to be logged on Toyota's main system?

Dunno, maybe I'm just going wild with the conspiracy theories, but does smell like BS, or at least very fishy 🤨

[flash22]

yes you need to be logged into the portal to access Techdoc with a TARS ID