PHEV ICE Vs Electric - its getting closer

[Yugguy1970]

I have heard talk of bringing back economy 7 style tariffs to try and spread the demand on the grid.

[AJones]

52 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I have heard talk of bringing back economy 7 style tariffs to try and spread the demand on the grid.

For EVs and PHEVs that has already happened, most energy suppliers offer an EV tariff with lower cost over-night rates to provide a cost saving for shifting your charging to times of lower demand and lower costs.

[TonyHSD]

Well, that was the case before the petrol went up from £1.30 avg to £1.90 avg, then recently petrol price went down a bit £1.70 avg and again makes almost non sense to sell your existing ice to purchase a new Bev in terms of running costs. 

When I switched from ice to hev Toyota in 2018 I made a huge savings from fuel consumption which paid off the initial purchase price of the car in less than 4 years. I was thinking in 2019 to upgrade to Tesla model 3 and pay for it from my fuel bill saving and using cheap electricity at the time to charge and many free public chargers. Well times has changed now and I am glad I didn't buy it or any other electric car and kept my current hybrid which still does over 60mpg. Not interested to change the car of yet, and especially with current car prices and availability. 

[Yugguy1970]

It's madness that we pay the same wholesale price for electric wether it comes from cheaper sources or from expensive gas generation.

[ernieb]

I guess the argument would be that the electricity price is averaged. However, as most wind farms are unable to store energy I assume that they could continue to generate a significant amount of night time energy which could potentially be used to offer a universal lower night time tariff.

[Nick72]

Fortunately PHEV owners get the choice. Petrol at 48mpg for me or electric at 3.5 miles per kWh. I'll probably stop charging if petrol price falls further and electric goes up further.

 

[Rav Rob]

Also glad didn't go BEV last car change, currently getting 25p a mile from the company (HMRC AFR) which is rising to 27p next month, despite petrol prices dropping a bit, so I can find it at 164p-165p around here so work driving is still actually profitable!

Even if I could break even in a BEV on home charging, with a mere 5p a mile from the company - unlikely, my work trips would require often public charging which would kill me financially.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Well, I am definitely lower class.

I know this as I read a book on the class system.😂

I really don't care about who sits where on the ladder.

If you behave to others as you wish others to behave to you, this goes a long way to recieving the treatment you deserve.

Empathy is a pretty good way of understanding another's situation I reckon.

 

[Nick72]

I'm thinking that as most of my personal mileage is short trips between 2 miles and 10 times in stop start traffic it may still be more economical to charge the PHEV and use electric. Not sure what mpg I'll get in these journeys since my only figures for mpg are based on dual carriageway and motorway cruise only (which averages at about 48mpg with sensible driving).

[ernieb]

8 hours ago, Nick72 said:

I'm thinking that as most of my personal mileage is short trips between 2 miles and 10 times in stop start traffic it may still be more economical to charge the PHEV and use electric. Not sure what mpg I'll get in these journeys since my only figures for mpg are based on dual carriageway and motorway cruise only (which averages at about 48mpg with sensible driving).

That’s my theory especially in the winter or during colder weather when the ICE will never likely get warm before being switched off. My guess is that the mpg would be very poor under these circumstances.

[philip42h]

Yes, indeed ... with the HEV, and silly short local journeys of 2 or 3 miles, I can get trip figures down between 20 and 30 mpg. Even expensive electricity should better that. 😉

[Rav Rob]

Of course the real trick with EV is where you get your electricity. I have a friend who had a good sized solar array installed quite a few years ago so it has a decent output. His EV (MG) is home most the day when output is peak and the solar provides a substantial chunk of his charging.

This was long before today's crisis but has turned out to be lucky foresight. In the day he got it because of the attractive rebates but obviously now its far better to use the power yourself.
 

[sonosp]

If you arent on Octopus Go with an EV you are doing something very very wrong. 7.5p/kwh between 00:00 and 04:00am.

 

I'm going to be paying from October. Still on the 5p/kwh rate! 

[ernieb]

What is the day rate?

[sonosp]

2 minutes ago, ernieb said:

What is the day rate?

39p locked till Oct 2024

[nlee]

19 minutes ago, sonosp said:

39p locked till Oct 2024

 Presuming that is a typo. Did you mean 2023? I was under the impression the rates were guaranteed for 12 months. My current tariff runs to the last week in November and I'm playing that game of do I renew early before the current rates go up again, which I'd expect to happen sooner rather than later.

[sonosp]

Just now, nlee said:

 Presuming that is a typo. Did you mean 2023? I was under the impression the rates were guaranteed for 12 months. My current tariff runs to the last week in November and I'm playing that game of do I renew early before the current rates go up again, which I'd expect to happen sooner rather than later.

Yep, sorry meant to be Oct 2023.

[Rav Rob]

2 hours ago, sonosp said:

If you arent on Octopus Go with an EV you are doing something very very wrong. 7.5p/kwh between 00:00 and 04:00am.

 

I'm going to be paying from October. Still on the 5p/kwh rate! 

4 hours isn't very long, most will have a 7kw charger so that is about 28kwh at a low price.

If your mileage is low or even moderate and your just 'topping up' that works OK on any EV for sure.

Not so much if say you have an EV with a 70kwh+ Battery and need to use much of its range regularly (it would be me if I had one). Pity there are not options such as a little higher charge but for a 6 hour window instead.

 

[philip42h]

5 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

4 hours isn't very long, most will have a 7kw charger so that is about 28kwh at a low price.

Which is way more than enough for the PHEV - after all that is what is relevant on this forum ... 😉

But it begins to sound as though Octopus are committed to sell at a retail price that may well be less than the wholesale price they are buying at. Maybe Octopus will be the next supplier going into liquidation ... ?

[nlee]

3 hours ago, Rav Rob said:

4 hours isn't very long, most will have a 7kw charger so that is about 28kwh at a low price.

If your mileage is low or even moderate and your just 'topping up' that works OK on any EV for sure.

Not so much if say you have an EV with a 70kwh+ battery and need to use much of its range regularly (it would be me if I had one). Pity there are not options such as a little higher charge but for a 6 hour window instead.

 

There is the Go Faster tariff which increases the off peak price by 1p and gives 5 hours. Or, if you have a compatible car, or charger, the intelligent tariff that gives at least 6 hours at 7.5p plus additional hours that they automatically control, when demand is low and electricity is cheap via talking to the car or charger. Only limited models and chargers at the moment though.

But neither necessary for a PHEV.

[Rav Rob]

20 minutes ago, nlee said:

There is the Go Faster tariff which increases the off peak price by 1p and gives 5 hours. Or, if you have a compatible car, or charger, the intelligent tariff that gives at least 6 hours at 7.5p plus additional hours that they automatically control, when demand is low and electricity is cheap via talking to the car or charger. Only limited models and chargers at the moment though.

But neither necessary for a PHEV.

ah interesting, thank. Lets hope for those benefitting that its sustainable.

[Hayzee]

7 hours ago, sonosp said:

39p locked till Oct 2024

Why would Octopus sell prime time kwh 25% below the October cap price of 52p? They work on something like a profit of 2% above wholesale rates so they will lose out big time.

[sonosp]

10 hours ago, Hayzee said:

Why would Octopus sell prime time kwh 25% below the October cap price of 52p? They work on something like a profit of 2% above wholesale rates so they will lose out big time.

I locked into it at the end of July before the announcement of further rises. That's just what they offered me! It was much lower than the 45p variable rate they offered. 

 

*shrug* 

 

Octopus Go Octopus Go July 2022 v1

Tariff info (all prices include VAT)

Reference GO-22-07-05   Starts from 12:00 AM, 19th Sep 2022   Electricity Day rate 39.01p per kWh   Night rate 7.50p per kWh

[nlee]

11 hours ago, Hayzee said:

Why would Octopus sell prime time kwh 25% below the October cap price of 52p? They work on something like a profit of 2% above wholesale rates so they will lose out big time.

It's simply down to the pricing structure of these beta smart tariffs, which are a guaranteed price for 12 months. The current Go tariff price was set in July and at the time was around 10p above the SVT. It might have seemed unattractive then but some had the foresight to "lock in" and get the benefit after 1st October. People signing up or renewing get the price of the latest version of the tariff in place at the time. I'd would be obvious to expect a new version in the next week or so with new prices. If history is anything to go by, it will be a few pence more than the October cap of 52p, but with the cap now reviewed every 3 months, rather than 6, they may have to increase it more to hedge against future cap increases.

[Nick72]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:31 AM, ernieb said:

That’s my theory especially in the winter or during colder weather when the ICE will never likely get warm before being switched off. My guess is that the mpg would be very poor under these circumstances.

That's a good point Ernie. Forgot about the warm up time.