2020 Rav4 Hybrid - Engine died on me

[pipertheflattie]

Scary moment last night.

Returning home from family holiday on the M6 Smart Motorway, I was comfortably doing 65mph in the middle lane passing numerous HGVs when, without warning, the engine died!  Somehow, I managed to get into the inside lane and, as I slowed, escape into an emergency vehicle access point.  How we avoided being hit I've no idea.

EV light on but absolutely no power in drive.

Interested to learn if anyone else has had this problem.

[Bper]

Hi Ian, 

Thankfully you are OK,  I came across this article a while ago and I don't know if this will help but it's interesting.

Engine Shut Off Without Warning Problems of Toyota RAV4

Toyota RAV4 owners have reported 6 problems related to engine shut off without warning (under the engine and engine cooling category). The most recently reported issues are listed below. Also please check out the statistics and reliability analysis of Toyota RAV4 based on all problems reported for the RAV4.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, pipertheflattie said:

EV light on but absolutely no power in drive.

I've not had any experience even remotely similar with my RAV4.

I assume that you've already told us everything related to the engine stopping - one minute everything was fine and the next it wasn't. Were there any warning messages or anything like that?

How did you manage to get going again? Was it simply a question of counting ten and restarting the engine or did you need to call out a recovery service?

Have you taken / are you taking the car to a Toyota dealer to have the codes read and the fault properly diagnosed?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Carproblemzoo.com is an American site and reports faults American owners have experienced - so may not be so relevant to the UK or Europe.

[pipertheflattie]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

I've not had any experience even remotely similar with my RAV4.

I assume that you've already told us everything related to the engine stopping - one minute everything was fine and the next it wasn't. Were there any warning messages or anything like that?

How did you manage to get going again? Was it simply a question of counting ten and restarting the engine or did you need to call out a recovery service?

Have you taken / are you taking the car to a Toyota dealer to have the codes read and the fault properly diagnosed?

Hi

After being told by Toyota Roadside Assistance I may have to wait 2 hours for assistance I  tried to start it and guess what....it worked!  Although pitch black we discovered a small farmers track next to where ended up that led to a small road.  Rather than wait, we decided to see how far we could get on local roads (no way I was going back on the motorway) and fortunately got home hours later.

Called local Toyota dealership this morning.  They sounded surprised about this failure and stated 'that's never happened before'.  Really?  It's booked in for Wednesday so I'll give feedback then.

There was no warning, lights or otherwise, before or when the engine failed.  No way will we drive on the motorway in this car again - total loss of confidence.

[pipertheflattie]

2 hours ago, Bper said:

Hi Ian, 

Thankfully you are OK,  I came across this article a while ago and I don't know if this will help but it's interesting.

Engine Shut Off Without Warning Problems of Toyota RAV4

Toyota RAV4 owners have reported 6 problems related to engine shut off without warning (under the engine and engine cooling category). The most recently reported issues are listed below. Also please check out the statistics and reliability analysis of Toyota RAV4 based on all problems reported for the RAV4.

Thankyou.  That makes some interesting reading.

[ernieb]

My only experience of a car engine stopping at high speed on a motorway was with a Vauxhall Carlton. It turned out to be a defective relay which in the event of a crash is designed to cut off the fuel supply. This was a problem with a batch of components and caused no end of alarming incidents and some crashes as a result. There were no replacement parts available for some time and I know of a few people who wired out the contacts and used a switch in the cabin to bi pass the problem until they could get a replacement.

As an aside I was 4 up on business trip but managed to switch off the ignition select neutral and restart as the road surface had giggled the contacts again. We pulled over and all changed our underwear from our overnight bags. 

[philip42h]

45 minutes ago, pipertheflattie said:

...  I  tried to start it and guess what....it worked! ...

Called local Toyota dealership this morning.  They sounded surprised about this failure and stated 'that's never happened before'.  Really?  It's booked in for Wednesday so I'll give feedback then.

While, yes, "they would say that wouldn't they", I'd be very inclined to believe them. There are an awful lot of Toyota hybrids about on the roads these days and I've not come across any reports of this nature. By it's very design, the self-charging hybrid should regularly stop the engine, illuminating the EV light, and, when needed, restart the engine again. In your, apparently relatively unique, case it appears that it didn't!

Were you driving on cruise control or "manually"? Under cruise control the car tends not to switch-off the engine and light the EV light; under 'manual' driver control it will tend to do so every time the driver lifts off the accelerator.

Either way, please do give feedback when you get some from the dealer ...

[Cyker]

There's been a smattering of similar reports over the past few years in the Yaris forum - The early Mk4 Yaris hybrids also had a few mentions of it just cutting out; I don't think we ever found a single conclusive reason, but two that I recall off the top of my head were a failure of the drive plate thing that connects the ICE to MG1, and loose 12v Battery terminals.

Like you found, waiting for a bit then restarting the car seemed to put it back to normal in most cases, and it would just come on as if nothing happened and carry on working as normal!

I've not heard it on later ones tho', and given how I drive I figured I'd be the first to find any major design issues that could cause such a thing! 

Hopefully the dealer will get an experienced specialist technician to look at it and not just their normal servicing people...

 

[TonyHSD]

While been overtaking the lorries have you pushed the accelerator harder to go pass the group of lorries quickly?
By any chance been mistakenly set the car into N instead of D? Usually if the car detects a major error with either engine, electric motor, inverter or hv Battery can cut all power off and trigger warning ⚠️ “ hybrid system malfunction “ , the car will switch automatically to N , all lights will come on the dashboard and you can continue to coast until the car stops itself or you stop it as you did. After restarting you can continue your journey in most cases but that will depend of what actually triggered the fault. Happened once on me with auris hybrid while under heavy acceleration and I hit a pothole, the ice and revved up to very high rpm and then silent, all lights came on including yellow warning ⚠️ and the car went into N and pulled over onto a grass verge. Very scary experience. Restarted and went home fine, the warning lights remained but I run diagnostic afterwards myself, checked the codes and deleted the error. 10 months later no problems at all, no physical or software damage. But it took me some time to build confidence again and I do drive on motorway every day. Toyota should be able to run diagnostic and tell you more about. 

[NASY]

Ian, really sorry to hear this. Biggest issue I feel is your loss of confidence in the car, which will only be restored if someone is able to identify the fault, fixit and reassure you that it won't happen again. With many faults in complex machines that is often not the case sadly but I hope for you and the rest of us this is an exception. 

[robo1]

The manual states to stop the hybrid system in an emergency press the power button for 2 seconds or press it 3 times in quick succession. Seems unlikely but could anything have pressed the button ? A knee??

[pipertheflattie]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:37 PM, robo1 said:

The manual states to stop the hybrid system in an emergency press the power button for 2 seconds or press it 3 times in quick succession. Seems unlikely but could anything have pressed the button ? A knee??

Hi, I read that too but no, not in our incident.  I'm booked in this morning with a senior technician at my local Toyota dealership so I'll come back later with the result.

[Gerg]

Unlikely to be the cause, but so easy to check - have the 12v Battery terminals been verified for tightness?

 

[pipertheflattie]

Quick update -

Took my car to dealership yesterday and the initial investigation discovered 15+ fault codes.  Now,  I'm told that none of them individually would have caused the failure however, it was stated to me that a combination of them together may well have.  The report has been sent up the chain to Toyota UK and the car will remain at the dealership until they get to the crux of the matter.

Interestingly, although the car drove fine to the dealership, once there the technician couldn't start it again.  Hybrid fault!

The plot thickens.  Apologies that I can't give those who are interested, exact code details.  I forgot them.....I'll collect them on my next visit.

Cheers for now.

[philip42h]

18 minutes ago, pipertheflattie said:

although the car drove fine to the dealership, once there the technician couldn't start it again.  Hybrid fault!

All things considered, that is really good news and there is a real chance / hope that you will ultimately discover the cause and have it fixed. Much better than the dealership saying that they couldn't find anything wrong! 🙂

[TonyHSD]

Low voltage in 12v Battery perhaps 🤔 

[rav4x4man]

Hi Ian,

I hope the car is O.K now; was the cause of the problem ever resolved?

[Nick72]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:48 AM, pipertheflattie said:

Scary moment last night.

Returning home from family holiday on the M6 Smart Motorway, I was comfortably doing 65mph in the middle lane passing numerous HGVs when, without warning, the engine died!  Somehow, I managed to get into the inside lane and, as I slowed, escape into an emergency vehicle access point.  How we avoided being hit I've no idea.

EV light on but absolutely no power in drive.

Interested to learn if anyone else has had this problem.

On a couple of occasions I've had no power at all when simply manoeuvring on a car park. Dash lights on and everything but no power. EV mode. Happened a while back but has never happened since. It was really strange. PHEV in my case.

[pipertheflattie]

2 hours ago, rav4x4man said:

Hi Ian,

I hope the car is O.K now; was the cause of the problem ever resolved?

Hi all

Yes.  Toyota(UK) eventually assisted my dealership in finding the root cause of the fault.

It was an automatic gear lever sensor (engine end) that was out of adjustment.  So, despite the vehicle being in drive mode ('D' indicated on dashboard) this sensor/transducer was actually signalling the engine management system that I was in neutral.  Therefore, no power!  The sensor/transducer was replaced, calibration was checked and fully tested.

It's taken a little time to regain confidence in the vehicle but I'm pleased to say that, after 2,000 miles, it has run perfectly.  In fact, it is better.  Improved acceleration and general engine response.

My dealership was excellent however, I remain dissatisfied with Toyota (UK) as it required me to escalate the issue to director level before they would get involved.  Not what I expected from this company.

[rav4x4man]

Hi Ian,

Excellent news; glad you got it sorted; a great relief.

I had an 'engine cut out' issue with a Ford Kuga about 12 years ago; different problem of course, but very frightening.

Ford never did identify the problem and I couldn't live with the car under those circumstances. I bought my first RAV4 after that (for Toyota reliability) and have stayed with RAV4s ever since.

Thanks for the reply.

I

[NASY]

Joy. Great to hear it's explained and fixed. I hope the confidence is being restored. 

[mobi]

1 hour ago, pipertheflattie said:

this sensor/transducer was actually signalling the engine management system that I was in neutral

This seems like a design fault. Even if this sensor is faulty, ECU should have checked if the speed is greater than zero? If ECU thinks car is in neutral while travelling at > 60 MPH that seems odd (granted one can shift to neutral in a manual car at any speed).

 

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, pipertheflattie said:

Hi all

Yes.  Toyota(UK) eventually assisted my dealership in finding the root cause of the fault.

It was an automatic gear lever sensor (engine end) that was out of adjustment.  So, despite the vehicle being in drive mode ('D' indicated on dashboard) this sensor/transducer was actually signalling the engine management system that I was in neutral.  Therefore, no power!  The sensor/transducer was replaced, calibration was checked and fully tested.

It's taken a little time to regain confidence in the vehicle but I'm pleased to say that, after 2,000 miles, it has run perfectly.  In fact, it is better.  Improved acceleration and general engine response.

My dealership was excellent however, I remain dissatisfied with Toyota (UK) as it required me to escalate the issue to director level before they would get involved.  Not what I expected from this company.

I think this could explain my problem. It was as though the car was in neutral opposed to D or R. Right faff at the time on a busy car park reversing out of my spot. No drive power. Switched car off then on again and it was fixed. Probably don't want that on the motorway. Touch wood it doesn't happen again. Quite a while ago and a few thousand miles later and hasn't happened again.

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, mobi said:

This seems like a design fault. Even if this sensor is faulty, ECU should have checked if the speed is greater than zero? If ECU thinks car is in neutral while travelling at > 60 MPH that seems odd (granted one can shift to neutral in a manual car at any speed).

 

You would have thought so. Simple vehicle health management. But they don't even check for excessive 12V Battery drain when the car is off. Which would have identified my 12V problem quickly (telemetry module not shutting down causing excessive drain). Surprised.