BP unleaded low MPG

[Eddie G]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:56 PM, TonyHSD said:

Well, I had exactly opposite experience and my local BP 95 E10 or 99 E5 are my favourite. The car does best mileage, has the longest range when full, accelerates fastest and the engine is quietest too, no engine knock, no drama . The transition between ev and petrol is the smoothest too. The thing is that between two petrol stations of the same company the fuels can be very different and this is a good example. Been talking about this for some time now, happy you report that. , thank you., just confirm my thoughts  👍

Btw where I live there are two shell garages in 2 miles radius, one is very good fuel and the other is poor quality because always when fill up there the engine got some anomalies and it’s noisier and less responsive. 

Same here, tried Morrisons, Tesco, Jet and BP so far and BP is definitely better.

[TonyHSD]

Can confirm It’s likely the weather not the garage or fuel , just got my fill up this morning and mpg is down from 61mpg to 56mpg but the dashboard readings still shows 61.1mpg. If I reset them and won’t see any numbers beginning with 6 in the next 7-8 months ⛽️😊

[Eddiefh]

Off topic but just got some Shell e10 from a busy garage for £1.59 a litre 

[Kental]

1.8 engines don't like long runs, especially if you are doing in excess of 60mph.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Kental said:

1.8 engines don't like long runs, especially if you are doing in excess of 60mph.

True, actually they love long runs but low cruising speeds, for relaxed driving are unbeatable and this is same for all Toyota hybrids even the more powerful 2.0 and 2.5 because of the way they work and the transmission. If anyone is about fast speeds motorway cruise better standard auto or dsg, they are faster and can transfer torque quieter plus give more direct feeling. Toyota promises the next gen 5 to be closer the the faster ones above but it’s about time to see. Anyone who had ordered Corolla 2023 will share experience. 

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, Kental said:

1.8 engines don't like long runs, especially if you are doing in excess of 60mph.

Are you suggesting that Toyota have sold a vehicle in the UK that is incapable of maintaining the national speed limit on motorways? Because I can assure you that you're wrong.

Whilst I do normally cruise at 60mph there have been times when I've gone a lot faster a lot further. When I went to my Dad's funeral year before last Welsh Covid restrictions meant that I had to drive from home (South Northants, near the M40) up to Colwyn Bay and back in a day - a round trip of nearly 400 miles. I took it easy going up but coming back the only times I dropped below 70 were in road works and the final stretch from Birmingham to Banbury I gave vent to my feelings and kept up with the other fastards in the outside lane, probably averaging over 80 mph.

The car was absolutely fine with it and I had no difficulty keeping up with the ebb and flow. Yes a lot of the time I had to stab the accelerator to the floor to keep up but that's why Toyota give us that much travel on it. I think fuel consumption on that return leg was high 40s so a big drop from normal but not particularly bad under the circumstances.

[bigblock]

1 hour ago, AndrueC said:

Are you suggesting that Toyota have sold a vehicle in the UK that is incapable of maintaining the national speed limit on motorways? Because I can assure you that you're wrong.

Whilst I do normally cruise at 60mph there have been times when I've gone a lot faster a lot further. When I went to my Dad's funeral year before last Welsh Covid restrictions meant that I had to drive from home (South Northants, near the M40) up to Colwyn Bay and back in a day - a round trip of nearly 400 miles. I took it easy going up but coming back the only times I dropped below 70 were in road works and the final stretch from Birmingham to Banbury I gave vent to my feelings and kept up with the other fastards in the outside lane, probably averaging over 80 mph.

The car was absolutely fine with it and I had no difficulty keeping up with the ebb and flow. Yes a lot of the time I had to stab the accelerator to the floor to keep up but that's why Toyota give us that much travel on it. I think fuel consumption on that return leg was high 40s so a big drop from normal but not particularly bad under the circumstances.

I would have to agree with AndrueC  regarding the 1.8 engine. In fact my previous 2016 Auris TS 1.8 produced it's best mpg cruising at 70 mph on long motorway drives of 300 miles and more. Slightly more horse power in the Auris compared to the current Corolla 1.8 though. I think the new MY23 1.8 Corolla is going to be much better wth the extra power. 

[Cyker]

He's not saying it's incapable, probably more that it's less refined at those speeds; The previous ones had a rep for revving a bit high to sustain the torque needed to hold higher speeds.

I think the newer ones are better tho' - My Yaris Mk4 will fairly easily cruise at 70mph with the engine running at 2000rpm - That's lower than what my old diesel Mk1 did it in 5th! (And a lot lower than my Mk2!!)

Hills and stuff will make it climb rapidly to 3-3.5k tho', and if I go for a quick pass it'll run to the redline unless I do it progressively!  

I went from Cheshunt to the Brooklands museum and back on sunday at mostly 70 and the car said the average was 77mpg! To be fair there was an unusually massive traffic jam around heathrow which probably helped push it up a bit on the way back, but I'd started the day with 60-something, as I'd just refuelled the previous evening and booked it home, so despite doing mostly 70mph it was still pushing it up from the 60-something mpg!! Madness!  

 

 

[Kental]

20 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Are you suggesting that Toyota have sold a vehicle in the UK that is incapable of maintaining the national speed limit on motorways? Because I can assure you that you're wrong.

Whilst I do normally cruise at 60mph there have been times when I've gone a lot faster a lot further. When I went to my Dad's funeral year before last Welsh Covid restrictions meant that I had to drive from home (South Northants, near the M40) up to Colwyn Bay and back in a day - a round trip of nearly 400 miles. I took it easy going up but coming back the only times I dropped below 70 were in road works and the final stretch from Birmingham to Banbury I gave vent to my feelings and kept up with the other fastards in the outside lane, probably averaging over 80 mph.

The car was absolutely fine with it and I had no difficulty keeping up with the ebb and flow. Yes a lot of the time I had to stab the accelerator to the floor to keep up but that's why Toyota give us that much travel on it. I think fuel consumption on that return leg was high 40s so a big drop from normal but not particularly bad under the circumstances.

Sorry I didn't mean the car would struggle, just the average mpg goes off a cliff so to speak. I was referring to the OP doing a long journey and seeing a big drop after using BP, I was implying the long journey rather than just the change in fuel brand could be the reason.

[Kental]

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

He's not saying it's incapable, probably more that it's less refined at those speeds; The previous ones had a rep for revving a bit high to sustain the torque needed to hold higher speeds.

I think the newer ones are better tho' - My Yaris Mk4 will fairly easily cruise at 70mph with the engine running at 2000rpm - That's lower than what my old diesel Mk1 did it in 5th! (And a lot lower than my Mk2!!)

Hills and stuff will make it climb rapidly to 3-3.5k tho', and if I go for a quick pass it'll run to the redline unless I do it progressively!  

I went from Cheshunt to the Brooklands museum and back on sunday at mostly 70 and the car said the average was 77mpg! To be fair there was an unusually massive traffic jam around heathrow which probably helped push it up a bit on the way back, but I'd started the day with 60-something, as I'd just refuelled the previous evening and booked it home, so despite doing mostly 70mph it was still pushing it up from the 60-something mpg!! Madness!  

 

 

The Corolla is still refined at higher speeds, to me more so than the Yaris.  But as you say the Yaris can go to about 75 mph before the economy drops off the cliff

[TonyHSD]

As I mentioned earlier no Toyota hybrid that uses power split device in their transmission is built for high speeds drives as this type it’s not suitable for heavy load. You can literally drive 80mph and achieve  great mpg or drive 50mph and efficiency be bad, all depends how you load the car . Once you hear the engine is loud and working harder than usual that’s it , you are burning more than necessary. That’s why Toyota made the cars very relaxing to drive and the car itself pushes you to do so. If you compare golf tsi dsg to Corolla 2.0 hybrid similar horse power engines the golf will make you drive sporty while Corolla will make you drive relaxed even after quick brisk acceleration. , these two hatchbacks are very different in feel how they drive., although similar sizes and shapes. 

[Frosted]

Hi all, really appreciate all the feedback 🙂 I'm leaning towards the garage I used being rather quiet so possibly the fuel had deteriorated. The long run wasn't particularly unusual (and I'm rather addicted to gentle relaxed driving since owning the Corolla) so I should have seen 60+. I'll stick to busy stations from now on.

[Stivino]

2 minutes ago, Frosted said:

 I'm leaning towards the garage I used being rather quiet so possibly the fuel had deteriorated.

Then, you should complain to the garage.  But, I'm quite sure it won't be that.

[Cyker]

Probably a waste of time, they'll just deny it "Oh, we've not had any reports of such problems so we don't think it's us!"

Heck there was a well publicised fuel contamination in, I think Italy, not that long ago where chlorine had gotten into the fuel and destroyed the engines of a whole load of Toyota hybrids; Toyota wouldn't cover it under warranty as they have specific exclusions for such things, and the fuel station denied responsibility saying there was nothing wrong with the fuel - Affect owners really got shafted at both ends on that one...

TBH was probably a combination of all things mentioned - head wind, cold lowering engine efficiency and tyre pressures, slightly iffy fuel, etc.

[AndrueC]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:11 PM, Cyker said:

He's not saying it's incapable, probably more that it's less refined at those speeds; The previous ones had a rep for revving a bit high to sustain the torque needed to hold higher speeds.

I think the newer ones are better tho' - My Yaris Mk4 will fairly easily cruise at 70mph with the engine running at 2000rpm - That's lower than what my old diesel Mk1 did it in 5th! (And a lot lower than my Mk2!!)

Hills and stuff will make it climb rapidly to 3-3.5k tho', and if I go for a quick pass it'll run to the redline unless I do it progressively!  

I'd agree with that assessment. I've noticed in the past pulling away from M40 J11 up toward Middleton Cheney.

If I try to be silly and floor the accelerator the Corolla pretty much tops out at 80mph well before the top.  It clearly runs out of puff. By contrast my Jazz would romp up and hit max speed (over 100 mph) before they got to the top.

Both models have a CVT but the Jazz has 100bhp to the Corolla's 120 (albeit the ICE on its own is only 97bhp).

So yes, I'd say a little unrefined and lacking in high-end torque. . If it feels a bit frantic and needs pushing when above legal speeds well..the moral of that story is obvious 😉

[twintopp]

i always smile to myself when i hear these stories about which petrol is best because there are only about four refineries in the UK. and so no matter what the company sign says all your local garages will be supplied from the same place, they won`t run a tanker from one end of the country to the other to fill up a garage they just get it from the nearest refinery, simple economics.  

[Cyker]

The base stock is the same but it's the additive packages that make all the difference!

 

[Eddie G]

5 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The base stock is the same but it's the additive packages that make all the difference!

 

Agree, my mark 4 pocket rocket 😁 is definitely a tad smoother on her BP fuel and a tad better MPG. 

[Tech429]

Unfortunately it is all about the green output.

E10 has 10% renewable ethanol in it - which does not burn efficiently at all 😒 but it is greener for the planet 🙂

That said, I did fill up with E5 Super Tesco at one point during the summer and noticed a slight drop in mpg from the E10 Regular... so was not much of a difference really IMO.  You never ever have similar trips these days.

But as already mentioned many factors can affect mpg... especially winter coming along.

[TonyHSD]

Two days ago I filled up Shell e10 95 from a garage that usually the petrol is ok but this time probably I had a bad batch and the engine has felt immediately underpowered and much noisier especially when joining motorways. I always found that an issue filing up at different stations,  but since E10 introduction this is kind of more often occurrence. Stopped by favourite bp this morning and topped up with e5 97 and will see how the car drives later tonight. The difference earlier might also be as a result of changing the tyres to all season which are grabbier with higher rolling resistance, not by much but enough to make a difference in behaviour. Btw hybrids does get impacted a lot more than regular petrol or diesel cars with change of tyres, pressure, fuel, weather, air temperature etc. Perhaps is down to their thermo efficiency of the ice and the way the power is transferred to the driving wheels, they seems to be relaid to the inertia of the car a lot more than standard cars. 

[APS]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:42 AM, Dylanfan said:

At the time the CX turbo diesel was the most economical car on the road, one was driven from Lands End to John O’Groats on a tank full; they never said how fast they drove😁. That one of mine could cruise at 80+ all day so the 120 could have been true for the very slippery saloon. Great memories.

Another CX fan in the midst? (beyond Dylan, of course)

 

[Tech429]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Two days ago I filled up shell e10 95 from a garage that usually the petrol is ok but this time probably I had a bad batch and the engine has felt immediately underpowered and much noisier especially when joining motorways. I always found that an issue filing up at different statins but since E10 introduction this is kind of more often occurrence. Stopped by favourite bp this morning and topped up with e5 97 and will see how the car drives later tonight. The difference earlier might also be as a result of changing the tyres to all season which are grabbier with higher rolling resistance, not by much but enough to make a difference in behaviour. Btw hybrids does get impacted a lot more than regular petrol or diesel cars with change of tyres, pressure, fuel, weather, air temperature etc. Perhaps is down to their thermo efficiency of the ice and the way the power is transferred to the driving wheels, they seems to be relaid to the inertia of the car a lot more than standard cars. 

E5 does burn more efficiently than E10... but at the cost of mpg.

Yes it really does matter where you go for fuel (do not believe that all is the same.  Even with the regulations and quality control the fuel is not the same.  Supermarkets really do go for the lower end of the fuel quality spectrum.  I know... my old Astra had to have a engine rebuild due to this.)

[Dylanfan]

1 hour ago, APS said:

Another CX fan in the midst? (beyond Dylan, of course)

 

There are not many CX fans about, great cars, we’ll most of the hydraulic Citroens were. It’s a shame ride comfort has been forgotten. When I get out of my Xantia V6 and into the Corolla, it’s like I have 4 flat tyres, it’s called progress.

[Trewithy]

2 hours ago, Tech429 said:

Supermarkets really do go for the lower end of the fuel quality spectrum. 

Nonsense.   Please refer us to the documented proof.  Supermarkets are the biggest provider of fuel in the UK if there was anything with it broken down cars would be littering the roadsides.  

I do remember that Astras in particular did suffer engine problems back in the 1980's when Shell introduced a new fuel formulation.  It was quickly withdrawn.

[Cyker]

Well he's not wrong - Supermarket fuel is generally the lowest quality fuel, but it still conforms to minimum fuel quality standards so it'll work fine and shouldn't harm the car, just won't do it any favours.

Fuel company stations usually have better additive packages to justify their higher cost, esp. if you get the 'super' fuels like V-Power.

Also, E10 should burn cleaner - Ethanol has extra oxygen atoms in it which will help it burn cleaner, and it also acts as a solvent to clean the fuel system. However, it has less energy than petrol and also burns differently, so if the engine isn't designed for E10 it will have a bigger impact than if it's use on an engine that *was* designed for E10.

That said, I think we'd have all been better off if they had used E5/E10 from the get-go instead of tetraethyl-lead as an anti-knock agent back in the day!

The reason you might get less mpg from E5 is if you're using 'super' E5 - That has less 'petrol' in it, as they are putting in more anti-knock agents, and also maybe more detergents and stuff. All of that is good for your engine, but doesn't provide energy and also reduces the % of petrol per litre so that litre will effectively have a bit less energy.

Might also be because the super E5 is making you unconsciously give the car more beans