2022 RAV4 stolen

[robo1]

Don’t know if anyone seen this YouTube video. TV programme from Canada showing how easy it is to steal cars using lock picking tool and OBD reader. Honda CRV started at 9 mins into programme and another car  at 7 minutes. 
https://youtu.be/gshyozP-GY8

 

[Strangely Brown]

Why was the alarm not triggered if they are "picking the lock" and opening the door?

[Yugguy1970]

1 hour ago, forkingabout said:

 

Sounds similar to the old PSA Peugeot / Citroen keypad immobiliser from the early 1990s.

Was an excellent system as even with the keys, you couldn't start the car unless you knew the 4 digit pin code - only flaw was if the owner was to lazy to change there vehicle pin code from the factory default.

I had one, a Pug 406 with a keypad.  Such a good idea.

[forkingabout]

20 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I had one, a Pug 406 with a keypad.  Such a good idea.

Unless your 406 had the RF remote keys & you had linked the keypad to the remote key fob. 

[forkingabout]

23 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Why was the alarm not triggered if they are "picking the lock" and opening the door?

I know some vehicles the alarm system can be disarmed via the key ( or lock pick ) in the door lock barrel.

Older Ford alarms used to be easily defeated by destroying the door lock barrel & disabling the alarm system.

 

[robo1]

1 hour ago, Strangely Brown said:

Why was the alarm not triggered if they are "picking the lock" and opening the door?

Does the alarm go off if you open the door with the key ? 

[Hybrid21]

Never done it Keith, but I'm sure it will 👍

[Strangely Brown]

17 minutes ago, robo1 said:

Does the alarm go off if you open the door with the key ? 

I have just checked mine.

With the smart key safely out of range, I unlocked the door with the physical key.

The alarm was triggered, siren, horn and hazard lights as soon as I turned the key. It's really quite loud and you could not miss it. I did not even have to open the door.

That is quite reassuring.

[robo1]

14 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Never done it Keith, but I'm sure it will 👍

Your right. Just tried it! 

[Derek.w]

Alarm is also triggered in the Yaris if smart key is in the house and you use the physical key to unlock the car.

[ernieb]

One of the guys on the Toyota Owners Forum has just posted a reply from the Customer Support after he’d had a PHEV stolen but recovered. In the letter the writer talks about the general issues of car theft and how it is affecting all manufactures but them goes on to talk about discussions with the insurance companies and their engineers to come up with something like a blanking plate or a secondary immobiliser system and if and when they have a solution this will be passed onto the dealers.

Hopefully they will find a solution and retroactively fit to the affected cars.

[Terry10]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

One of the guys on the Toyota Owners Forum has just posted a reply from the Customer Support after he’d had a PHEV stolen but recovered. In the letter the writer talks about the general issues of car theft and how it is affecting all manufactures but them goes on to talk about discussions with the insurance companies and their engineers to come up with something like a blanking plate or a secondary immobiliser system and if and when they have a solution this will be passed onto the dealers.

Hopefully they will find a solution and retroactively fit to the affected cars.

Well that is what I just made in my post on page 25!!!! Effectively a blanking plate across said plug.Does it really take an engineer to make up something like that. 
I despair sometimes. It wasn't rocket science.

Terry

 

[Lawnmowerman]

On 1/14/2023 at 6:02 PM, Terry10 said:

My invention cost about £20.00 but I already had the metal, but I did have to visit my local metalwork shop to get the welding done.If I did a mk 2 model  there are things I would change and suspect it would be cheaper.

regards Terry.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Terry10 said:

Well that is what I just made in my post on page 25!!!! Effectively a blanking plate across said plug.Does it really take an engineer to make up something like that. 
I despair sometimes. It wasn't rocket science.

Terry

 

Perhaps the tea lady (person) was busy so hey, lets see if the engineer can have a crack at it 😂.

One would hope the engineer would get it right first time. As you say your second one would be cheaper so not quite right first time 🤣.

[Terry10]

😂😂 First one works fine, what I meant by that was that my mk 2 model would need less parts hence be cheaper. 
Terry

[RickyC]

I hope that design flaw is restricted to RAV 4.5 and is not present on other models like Yaris, Corolla or CHR.

[robo1]

7 hours ago, RickyC said:

I hope that design flaw is restricted to RAV 4.5 and is not present on other models like Yaris, Corolla or CHR.

Does your car have plastic wheel arches?

[ernieb]

Letter in full, I asked the poster if he was happy for me to copy it over here:

Good Morning ,
Thank you for your email and I understand that you feel disappointed and aggrieved by the news of the increase of theft in particularity of the RAV 4.
Car crime is certainly on the increase; we’ve seen this from our own data but are also aware of it being, as confirmed by our interactions with the police, an issue affecting owners of many makes and models. This is a top priority for Toyota and Lexus as we know it is for other manufacturers. 
Our cars are fitted with immobilisers and connected car functionality does in many cases result in cars being recovered, however car crimes appear to vary in nature; indeed we are aware of a criminal approach refereed to as ‘cannibalisation’ where certain makes and models are targeted for specific parts which go to the black market. Other cars are targeted by thieves stealing or cloning keys or accessing vehicles by using technology to bypass in car security systems including immobilisers. Recent instances and video footage shared with us has seen thieves with advanced technology being able to break in and start the cars and it appears some thieves have sophisticated electronic equipment and can gain access to cars by entering via the headlamps or through the wheel arches.
Its impossible to second guess the levels to which thieves will go to carry out these crimes and sadly you have been a victim of crime. Our technical teams, together with our insurance experts are looking at solutions and many manufacturers including ourselves are looking at secondary immobilisers and some kind of ‘blanking plate’ inserted to further deter access to the vehicle. This will be shared directly with the dealers when we have something to share.
For the time being and going forwards, we can currently only advise customers to try and keep their cars as secure as circumstances allow. Cars being garaged, off road and parked in well lit area offers some deterrent. We would also suggest that connected car functionality is in place. Keeping car keys away from front doors and in a Faraday pouch are good measures to take and whilst we are working to make our vehicles safer there is one tool that appears to do the job well, the steering lock. Here is what our recent blog said about the deterrent;
Modern vehicles invariably come with a high level of built-in security – the specific features of which are usually designed to react in the event of an incident. But there are simple things you can do to actively dissuade a thief from pursuing an attack on your car.
The use of a brightly coloured mechanical device locked across the steering wheel, gear lever or clutch pedal will provide an excellent visual deterrent to a would-be thief. We may be living in a digital age but nothing will persuade an opportunist to leave your car alone more effectively than a good old-fashioned piece of ironmongery.
We don’t accept there is any design fault with the RAV4 and whilst security systems offer a deterrent, no car is entirely off limits to the determined thief.
I do hope this information helps.
Thank you very much for contacting Toyota GB.
Kind regards,
Sharon

Sharon Hazelton
Customer Support
Toyota (GB) PLC  
Distributor of vehicles, parts and accessories for the UK

[forkingabout]

9 hours ago, RickyC said:

I hope that design flaw is restricted to RAV 4.5 and is not present on other models like Yaris, Corolla or CHR.

I would suspect if they use a similar immobiliser / security system & access can be gained to a connector plug with CAN wiring then it's a possibility.

The Rav4 is targeted as there is a high demand for them overseas.

[nlee]

9 hours ago, RickyC said:

I hope that design flaw is restricted to RAV 4.5 and is not present on other models like Yaris, Corolla or CHR.

Most modern cars have this "design flaw" in that all have a Canbus network which can be attacked in the same way. The thieves simply access this at the most vulnerable point on the vehicle. Make that point secure and they will try to exploit the next weakest point.

Remember, this is quite a sophisticated and technical method of theft. The thieves need to understand the particular type of vehicle and the electronics need to be preprogrammed with the CAN pulses specific to that vehicle. Effectively they set out that time to steal that particular vehicle. It worth noting that the evidence we've seen is mainly theft from outside homes, so it's likely there has been some scoping out beforehand. It not likely a chance encounter in a pub car park.

It is likely certain cars are stolen "to order" so the more expensive and desirable a car is the higher the risk. Although it's alarming that any of our vehicles are being stolen, there are many more of other brands being stolen. Having said that, and referencing what is in the letter Ernie posted, certain vehicle types could now be targeted where parts are expensive, or they are in short supply.

 

[robo1]

44 minutes ago, ernieb said:

and it appears some thieves have sophisticated electronic equipment and can gain access to cars by entering via the headlamps or through the wheel arches.

At least Toyota are admitting being aware of the problem.

Perhaps Terry10 should send details of his shield to Toyota in return for an inventors fee of £1 for each one fitted to all the Toyotas in the world. Would save them time having to invent their own.

 

[Terry10]

1 hour ago, robo1 said:

At least Toyota are admitting being aware of the problem.

Perhaps Terry10 should send details of his shield to Toyota in return for an inventors fee of £1 for each one fitted to all the Toyotas in the world. Would save them time having to invent their own.

 

😂😂😂 Seriously it really wasn't that difficult and I am quite happy to share details with any members here on a one to one basis. Already done this with one member . For some reason I can't get my head around posting pictures on this forum so ended up doing by email.If people required measurements as well then I would take mine off and do that.If you are capable of using a hack saw on 6 mm mild steel and can get the bits welded together then it's not a problem. It could be done without the measurements from me once you see the basic idea.

regards Terry.

 

 

[RickyC]

14 hours ago, nlee said:

Most modern cars have this "design flaw" in that all have a Canbus network which can be attacked in the same way. The thieves simply access this at the most vulnerable point on the vehicle. Make that point secure and they will try to exploit the next weakest point.

I agree that it's impossible for a manufacturer to assure that security systems can't be in some way violated and a car can't be stolen.   

But there's are simple rules of thumb like a bus segregation connecting secure devices ( like the units that manage keyless entry and start and immobolizer ) on a secure bus that can't be accessed by an external point.  In such a way even if a thief can find an extenal access ( like happens on RAV ) he can't trick the ECU simulating the messages sent by keyless module.

Protecting the left wheel arch can definetively solve the issue because probably there's a similar access on right one or on back ones even if hey may require more effort.

[Rav Rob]

It seems to me that criminals will always get access to software and seem to have a high degree of technical information about the vehicle to exploit and steal it. Obviously there has to be some features for programming the vehicle in case of part or key replacement which is open to exploiting. So could they not embed in the car firmware some measures to make it more difficult but not impossible to do with the car in the dealers for the day. Perhaps the bus command to program a new key starts a timer and only continues after 3 hours, with no override command? forcing thieves to have to hang around for 3 hours to continue the theft.

[VANESSA LANCELLOTTI]

My toyota rav4, fully equipped has been stolen on monday night and I realized it only 20 hours later. I had another car and I chased the tracker only to find  that it was  in a drain. I don`t tell you how much I feel sick.

Does the car has another tracker that TOYOTA can give the information to the police when it has been reported stolen? I have talked to a friend and Her landrover was stolen but had 2 trackers. I hope mine has it too. 

the police found HER CAR few weeks later.

BTW I crossed all London from west to east to chase the car, the tracker was at the beginning of Essex. Police didn`t look for it but waited for us to go at the location to come. I JUST WANT MY CAR BACK!

  

[RickyC]

From what I've understood with this exploit thieves don't add a new key or replace existing ones.  Simply they connect a module ( let's call it "exploit module" )  to CANBUS that answers in place of the module that manages the keys.

So what happens should be something like that:

• Thief touches driver handle to open driver door
• ECU receives a request to unlock door so ask to key control module if has detected a valid key
• Exploit module intercepts the request andì says "Yes I've detected a valid key"
• ECU orders to lock control module to unlock the doors
• Thief then pushes START button
• Again ECU checks if a valid key is detected and exploit module says "Yes driver has a valid key"
• So the car go in Ready and....  bye bye

Once that car has been transferred in thief garage, thief can add a new key with no hurry.