2022 RAV4 stolen

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, Sensei999 said:

I didn't start a new thread

In fact, a new topic was started.

On 7/6/2023 at 8:45 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Posted on the Club over 9 months ago and discussed at length already - so not new news.

Similar topics merged.

As a moderator, I merged the new topic with an existing topic that dates from September 2022.

Please move on.

[philip42h]

33 minutes ago, Sensei999 said:

I believe the Highlander does have the same vulnerability and many have been stolen in the USA and Canada. There weren't many sold here because Toyota never marketed them at all, to my knowledge, before discontinuing them. Same story with the Camry. I'm concerned because after months of pondering, I narrowed my shortlist down to the RX450h, the Highlander and the RAV 4. I'm trying to keep life simple and I don't want to be worrying about my car going missing.

Toyota UK seem to be in a bit of a mess wrt supply and marketing campaigns but the Highlander still appears on the current Price List even if not available to order on the website today. Maybe it will be back ...

Closer to topic - I have a RAV4 that 'enjoys' the vulnerability that is the subject of this thread and I don't worry about it at all. My RAV doesn't visit the sort of areas where such thefts are likely to occur let alone spend the night there.

If I was at all worried I'd deploy a brightly coloured StopLock or equivalent - it doesn't have to stop the theft but just encourage the thief to move on to something else.

Hopefully, Toyota will come up with a resolution in due course - it's a rather dumb design defect after all - but whether the 'fix' will be retrofitted / retrofittable to existing cars we will just have to wait and see.

[nlee]

5 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Cool, thank you.  I might take this to my Toyota dealer and ask about something for the RAV.  I've seen people who've made their own versions and am pondering that but a manufacturer one would be nice.

I'm not being blase, I have a visible Stoplok and always use it if the car is parked somewhere else than work or home but I don't feel as much at risk as if I lived down South.

May be worth reconsidering your strategy. It seems most of these reports are vehicles stolen from homes. Probably because they are scoped out well in advance of the theft for regular places the car is parked.

[nlee]

With regards the post on airtags, for those Android users, Google are supposedly releasing their version soon. A third party provider, Chipolo are releasing an Android version that works just like the airtag, but like the expected Google version, with Android's find my device system instead, available for pre-order with delivery estimated mid-July. Similar to airtags, this utilises all Android phone users, rather than something like Tile which relies on other Tile app users. 

[Yugguy1970]

36 minutes ago, nlee said:

May be worth reconsidering your strategy. It seems most of these reports are vehicles stolen from homes. Probably because they are scoped out well in advance of the theft for regular places the car is parked.

I work from home 4 days a week and I'm a very light sleeper 😁

[Strangely Brown]

9 hours ago, Sensei999 said:

Firstly, what is the difference between scaremongering and highlighting? I'd suggest that scaremongering is inflating the risk/likelihood of something happening. I'd suggest that's not the case here. 

The main point of my post was to suggest that a lot of pressure should be put on Toyota UK to provide a fix. So, for all the people on this forum who seem offended that I dare highlight a problem of which you are already aware, have you exerted any pressure on Toyota UK or dealers, and have you achieved anything, or are all your efforts aimed at criticising other people's posts? it seems that Lexus RX owners may have been more proactive because Lexus have produced a plate to be fitted, which may address the problem with their SUVs. Their dealers charge for this, so the next thing should be pressure to have every car fitted free of charge, to remove a ridiculous vulnerability. This may be the only way for insurers to stop hiking prices to the point at which they become uninsurable. Land Rover won't even insure some of their own vehicles now.

I am happy to eat my words. I did not expect you to be back as we have seen this behaviour before. Apologies for any offence that may have been taken.

There is no pressure to exert on Toyota as they will already be well aware of the problem and there is nothing that they will be able to do retrospectively that will prevent the problem. Even if they are able to stop access to the CAN via the headlight that will still leave any targeted car with a lot of damage because the miscreants would never know that their attack will be unsuccessful and will rip the bumper off anyway. That is not really a solution.

I suggest that it is far better to use a highly visible deterrent like a StopLock or Milenco so that they don't bother with the car and simply find another one.

If Lexus (which are Toyota anyway) have actually produced a plate in another market and it has some success then I would like to know more about it. i.e. I would like to know where it is fitted, how it "provides a deterrent" (their words) and how they measure its success at preventing theft.

As I said earlier: my insurance broker is not aware of high levels of RAV4 theft and it is not being widely reported within the industry, as far as I am informed. Insurance premiums are up across the board but that is much more to do with increased repair costs that it is to do with thefts of specific vehicles.

If you are very concerned about theft and do not want to worry about whether anything you but will be stolen then I suggest that you buy the most unattractive car possible that will still do what you need it to do. Otherwise, you make a judgement based on what you know, what you can afford and what risk level you are prepared to accept.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. 🙂

[Roger_N]

11 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

If Lexus (which are Toyota anyway) have actually produced a plate in another market

It's in the UK thread is in the link  near the end of page 6: Attempted Theft of my RX450h 2020 - Page 6 - RX 300 / RX 350 / RX 400h / RX 200t / RX 450h Club - Lexus Owners Club

 

 

 

[Sensei999]

1 hour ago, Strangely Brown said:

I am happy to eat my words. I did not expect you to be back as we have seen this behaviour before. Apologies for any offence that may have been taken.

There is no pressure to exert on Toyota as they will already be well aware of the problem and there is nothing that they will be able to do retrospectively that will prevent the problem. Even if they are able to stop access to the CAN via the headlight that will still leave any targeted car with a lot of damage because the miscreants would never know that their attack will be unsuccessful and will rip the bumper off anyway. That is not really a solution.

I suggest that it is far better to use a highly visible deterrent like a StopLock or Milenco so that they don't bother with the car and simply find another one.

If Lexus (which are Toyota anyway) have actually produced a plate in another market and it has some success then I would like to know more about it. i.e. I would like to know where it is fitted, how it "provides a deterrent" (their words) and how they measure its success at preventing theft.

As I said earlier: my insurance broker is not aware of high levels of RAV4 theft and it is not being widely reported within the industry, as far as I am informed. Insurance premiums are up across the board but that is much more to do with increased repair costs that it is to do with thefts of specific vehicles.

If you are very concerned about theft and do not want to worry about whether anything you but will be stolen then I suggest that you buy the most unattractive car possible that will still do what you need it to do. Otherwise, you make a judgement based on what you know, what you can afford and what risk level you are prepared to accept.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. 🙂

No worries, and thanks. The idea of putting pressure on Toyota is to get them to retrofit something to prevent Canbus access to all affected RAV 4s, because that's the only way to deter thieves. They have been aware for some time, it's publicity, and constant mentions on their social media that is likely to get results. Otherwise, owners cars could suffer a lot of damage before the thieves find out, and nothing to stop it happening repeatedly. I considered a Ghost immobiliser, but the same problem exists. That's why I think it's on Toyota to resolve it. It seems Lexus at least have a part available. 

[Dushio]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:34 PM, Strangely Brown said:

I am happy to eat my words. I did not expect you to be back as we have seen this behaviour before. Apologies for any offence that may have been taken.

There is no pressure to exert on Toyota as they will already be well aware of the problem and there is nothing that they will be able to do retrospectively that will prevent the problem. Even if they are able to stop access to the CAN via the headlight that will still leave any targeted car with a lot of damage because the miscreants would never know that their attack will be unsuccessful and will rip the bumper off anyway. That is not really a solution.

I suggest that it is far better to use a highly visible deterrent like a StopLock or Milenco so that they don't bother with the car and simply find another one.

If Lexus (which are Toyota anyway) have actually produced a plate in another market and it has some success then I would like to know more about it. i.e. I would like to know where it is fitted, how it "provides a deterrent" (their words) and how they measure its success at preventing theft.

As I said earlier: my insurance broker is not aware of high levels of RAV4 theft and it is not being widely reported within the industry, as far as I am informed. Insurance premiums are up across the board but that is much more to do with increased repair costs that it is to do with thefts of specific vehicles.

If you are very concerned about theft and do not want to worry about whether anything you but will be stolen then I suggest that you buy the most unattractive car possible that will still do what you need it to do. Otherwise, you make a judgement based on what you know, what you can afford and what risk level you are prepared to accept.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. 🙂

An interesting narrative, when catalytic converter theft a few years ago was through the roof, Toyota and other Car manufacturers developed a locking system that all but stopped said thefts on cars that had the device fitted. In that case a simple glance under the car would indicate if the (CC) was locked or not. With the blanking plate, perhaps a riveted sign could let the thief know there is a plate fitted? Just a thought……. Those that want the plate fitted can pay and arrange fitting perhaps whilst the car is serviced - One possible solution perhaps, or buy a Honda! 😄

For me I’m a Toyota fan with my other car being a Lexus, so in for the long haul. 

[Dushio]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:52 PM, Dushio said:

An interesting narrative, when catalytic converter theft a few years ago was through the roof, Toyota and other Car manufacturers developed a locking system that all but stopped said thefts on cars that had the device fitted. In that case a simple glance under the car would indicate if the (CC) was locked or not. With the blanking plate, perhaps a riveted sign could let the thief know there is a plate fitted? Just a thought……. Those that want the plate fitted can pay and arrange fitting perhaps whilst the car is serviced - One possible solution perhaps, or buy a Honda! 😄

For me I’m a Toyota fan with my other car being a Lexus, so in for the long haul. 

Update on my post and this isn’t meant to be any form of scaremongering - but for those in London and the Southeast, when you park, put your car steering wheel on full right hand lock, as well as a steering wheel krooklock - this makes it very difficult to remove the wheel liner to get to the canbus cable - and steal your car (it takes less than 2 minutes to steal your car - unless you have a krooklock).

The krooklock and disabling auto door locking is the only deterrent at the moment, until Toyota address this vulnerability in the security of the car. This applies to RAV4, Highlander and Camry in the Toyota range at this time.

Interestingly, parked outside my home today a 23 registered Range Rover Evoque, parked with a bright yellow krooklock on the steering wheel and 7 hours later the owner came and drove it away. When I asked her why she was using a Krooklock she said the Range Rover salesperson recommended she get one!

Toyota really need to address this issue!

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 minutes ago, Dushio said:

When I asked her why she was using a Krooklock she said the Range Rover salesperson recommended she get one!

Theft of Landrover vehicles in London is such an issue that some insurers are refusing to cover them, and even JLR have withdrawn their own branded insurance.

 

[SO8]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Theft of Landrover vehicles in London is such an issue that some insurers are refusing to cover them, and even JLR have withdrawn their own branded insurance.

When thieves go to the length of cutting a specific rectangular section out of the tailgate of a RR Sport to gain access to the desired area to access the Canbus I do wonder what exactly can be done !

I would just not buy any RR sadly ... aside from I have no confidence in their electrical side of things.  The ones I drove at work spent most time off the road being repaired !!   Hard use admittedly with Police and National Highways, but not a good advert compared to the BMW's and Volvo's.

[ROCKETRON]

My son has just cancelled his order for new RR because he has been quoted £9000 for insurance in London. It seems to have got ridiculous now. If they cant stop them being stolen they won’t be selling any soon, probably end up with manufacturers stepping in and covering the cars for theft.

[atartan]

Not sure if this was posted here before but this is a very interesting read https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/.   A JBL portable speaker is used for stealing RAV4s ...

 

 

[philip42h]

23 minutes ago, atartan said:

Not sure if this was posted here before but this is a very interesting read https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/.   A JBL portable speaker is used for stealing RAV4s ...

It probably doesn't need saying, but the electronics used to facilitate a CanBus theft have been known, in one case, to have been hidden inside a "JBL portable speaker" housing ... 😉 

[atartan]

15 minutes ago, philip42h said:

It probably doesn't need saying, but the electronics used to facilitate a CanBus theft have been known, in one case, to have been hidden inside a "JBL portable speaker" housing ... 😉 

Yes, It is just the housing , probably they are using the Battery of the speaker.. The chip they are using is under £5. The interesting thing is they say this security issue could be fixed by a software upgrade. I wonder if any car company would make investment to fix the software for the sold cars.

[Cyker]

The funniest one I've seen was a Nokia 3310!

 

 

[Rigsby]

Well I never thought I’d be buying one of these again but needs must.

[Vainona70]

You know it makes sense...

[Derek.w]

I use a simlar device for more years than I care to remember.

[Rigsby]

17 hours ago, Derek.w said:

I use a simlar device for more years than I care to remember.

I used to own one, II remember the days when all you needed to pinch a Ford was a flat bladed screwdriver, I know because I had my cortina taken.

Massive improvements in both security and technology meant that modern cars became difficult to steal without the key, however certain models seem all too easy to bypass the security and drive away.

Although not foolproof a visible deterrent is unfortunately needed to deter would be thieves and hopefully prevent any expensive damage. Hence the purchase of a Stoplock Pro Elite.

[SO8]

I had a BMW 330d when they had a security glitch whereby access could be gained via the wing mirror ... and people went out buying Diskloks.  BMW eventually issued a patch to deal with it but as usual the thieves were quickly onto new ways.   The Rav4 issue is a pita.  

I am using my Disklok but change my mind and use my Stoplock Pro too as cutting the wheel to get it off would be difficult as it is tight against the steering wheel control bit of the wheel.   I stopped using my Milenco as that gives more space to cut the wheel ... but is undoubtedly a very strong bit of kit in itself.

I am on the point of buying a yellow Disklok to replace my silver one as that is from 2012 ... on the basis it is a newer revision and more visible.  i want the thieves to see it as it is the trying which is also costing owners dearly in repairs.

I am aware of one video where they have used a disc cutter to cut the disclok off in maybe 15 seconds though ... I can see exactly how that can be done (it isn't difficult to work out where to cut tbh) but don't think most of the thieves are taking disc cutters out, they are obvious and noisy / create a lovely firework display when used ... most thieves just take the electronics to make a quick easy theft !

 

[nlee]

I saw a video from a doorbell camera on a Facebook group of another RAV4 being stolen a couple of weeks ago (greater London again). Interesting to note it appeared as though the first thing they did was look in the driver's side window, presumably for a steering wheel lock.

[Radoslaw]

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately my Rav4 was targeted as well.

It was one month ago. They damaged the wheel arch, took out the Nextbase front and rear dash cam and damaged the central console.

I have noticed in the morning when i went with my dog. keep in mind that i did not have any security installed at all. Did not even knew that there was a problem with it 😞 there is a saying in polish language ''Of course, after the event one can be wise''

I found the car with my toyota app, immediately call the police and took uber to go there. They dumped it 8 mile from my home near a school. Police came and said they can take the car for forensic inspection but this will cost me 200 pounds initially and for each day around 20 quid (sic!). So i phoned the insurance and they took it with break down cover.

Damage that they did was:

central console

front and rear dash cams

left wheel arch (i do not have the pictures of it as this was not damaged that much that we could see it on spot, we noticed this when the car wat taken to the acctual garage for inspection)

 

Now i have it back, everything repaird.

Precautions that i have made:

1. Faraday pouch and disabling the smart key each time when i close the car.

2. Stop lock elite pro on steering wheel.

3. Ghost 2 immobilizer.

After finding this forum yesterday and reading all of it i would never bought rav4 again!! Hopefully they will try to resolve this.

I found also something like this: https://www.dummyobd.com/ Do you think this will work out as well ?

[Dushio]

Sorry to hear about your story. I use the Stoplock Pro in bright yellow. Like you, if I had known about this security issue and that it is so easy to get into the car, (about 90 seconds) I would have chosen another car. I may try to find a ghost sticker to discreetly put on the windscreen on the passenger side - if there is one! Cheaper than the £500 quoted to fit the immobiliser!
Good luck.