2022 RAV4 stolen

[Terry10]

😂😂 Is ! really a naughty word?????
thought it was slang for person of low moral standards.

Terry

[Yugguy1970]

I thought you'd put a flavour of chicken commonly served in the Carribean.

Or a comment about cured and dried beef.

[raveen4]

Apologies in advance if some of this has been covered already, this is a big thread so I couldn't read all of it, we've just been told by our Toyota dealer that starting tomorrow they will be charging £84+VAT for steel plates to be fitted behind the headlight/wheel arch area. This is to help against theft via the can bus injection method. Originally these plates were priced at something like £240+vat. 

Our Rav4 (late 2019 model year) was stolen recently and then found later in the day 2 miles away using the MyT app. Even though our key was in a Faraday pouch it appears they must have still used the keyless entry hack as the car appears untouched (wheel arch intact, no other damage internally or externally).  Also when the car was found it was unlocked, according to the Toyota tech at our dealer this is usually the case if they use the keyless hack.  If they lock the car after driving away and parking elsewhere they then can't re-hack their way back into the car again as the car is no longer near the key. After a few days they would then fit false plates and get the car recovered. Car would most likely get chopped for parts, apparently there is high demand in Russia due to the sanctions.

We are now using a Stoplock Elite Pro and having the steel plates fitted just in case. Other points to note, we were told by the dealer that many Rav4s (I think he must have meant older model year ones like ours) at least in London area are almost un-insurable, or silly quotes are given by most insurance companies/brokers. Toyota's own insurance will insure you but you must have a Thatcham cat 2 immobiliser fitted, Toyota themselves do not sell this so at the moment you would need to get this fitted by a 3rd party. 

Apparently new Rav4s are not as affected due to improved security etc etc.

Thank you to this thread for all the info provided by everyone. Also just to mention we had forgotten about the MyT app and because of this thread suddenly remembered we had set this up a couple years ago, so re-loaded the app, logged in and then led us to find our Rav4.

[JDK-SL7]

 

My dealer has no knowledge of it 😞

[Parts-King]

1 minute ago, JDK-SL7 said:

My dealer has no knowledge of it 

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Rav Rob]

22 minutes ago, raveen4 said:

Apologies in advance if some of this has been covered already.....

Thank you for the interesting post.
I am surprised at the insurance issues but thinking about it, later models (from 2021 I think) got the upgraded 'sleeping keys' which would hugely reduce scanner thefts so that may be the increased security they mean.

[Dushio]

53 minutes ago, raveen4 said:

Apologies in advance if some of this has been covered already, this is a big thread so I couldn't read all of it, we've just been told by our Toyota dealer that starting tomorrow they will be charging £84+VAT for steel plates to be fitted behind the headlight/wheel arch area. This is to help against theft via the can bus injection method. Originally these plates were priced at something like £240+vat. 

Our Rav4 (late 2019 model year) was stolen recently and then found later in the day 2 miles away using the MyT app. Even though our key was in a faraday pouch it appears they must have still used the keyless entry hack as the car appears untouched (wheel arch intact, no other damage internally or externally).  Also when the car was found it was unlocked, according to the Toyota tech at our dealer this is usually the case if they use the keyless hack.  If they lock the car after driving away and parking elsewhere they then can't re-hack their way back into the car again as the car is no longer near the key. After a few days they would then fit false plates and get the car recovered. Car would most likely get chopped for parts, apparently there is high demand in Russia due to the sanctions.

We are now using a Stoplock Elite Pro and having the steel plates fitted just in case. Other points to note, we were told by the dealer that many Rav4s (I think he must have meant older model year ones like ours) at least in London area are almost un-insurable, or silly quotes are given by most insurance companies/brokers. Toyota's own insurance will insure you but you must have a Thatcham cat 2 immobiliser fitted, Toyota themselves do not sell this so at the moment you would need to get this fitted by a 3rd party. 

Apparently new Rav4s are not as affected due to improved security etc etc.

Thank you to this thread for all the info provided by everyone. Also just to mention we had forgotten about the MyT app and because of this thread suddenly remembered we had set this up a couple years ago, so re-loaded the app, logged in and then led us to find our Rav4.

I would be grateful for the name of the dealer + location. 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, raveen4 said:

Other points to note, we were told by the dealer that many Rav4s (I think he must have meant older model year ones like ours) at least in London area are almost un-insurable, or silly quotes are given by most insurance companies/brokers. Toyota's own insurance will insure you but you must have a Thatcham cat 2 immobiliser fitted, Toyota themselves do not sell this so at the moment you would need to get this fitted by a 3rd party. 

Do Toyota say which Thatcham Cat2 Immobiliser? I ask because there are documented stories of people having had immobilisers fitted only for them to interfere with the normal operation of the car. It's all very well specifying a device but unhelpful[*] unless it is known that that specific device is 100% compatible with that particular model of car.

My insurance is not due for another couple of months and when I last asked my broker about RAV4 insurance news he said that he was not aware of anything that would place it outside of the normal, across the board, rises that the industry is seeing.

While that is mildly reassuring, I am still bracing for a shock.

 

[*] Not you. Toyota insurance

[nlee]

15 hours ago, JDK-SL7 said:

 

My dealer has no knowledge of it 😞

Had mine in for a service last week and also asked. The guy I spoke to hadn't even heard of the theft issue, never mind the "fix".

[Rigsby]

2 hours ago, nlee said:

Had mine in for a service last week and also asked. The guy I spoke to hadn't even heard of the theft issue, never mind the "fix".

Of course he hadn’t, he’s hardly going to say “yes, we’ve sold you a car that can be Gone in 60 seconds” 

[Rigsby]

Another video of CanBus theft this time In Birmingham.

https://www.facebook.com/BirminghamaiCCTV/videos/1194377994519117/

[Strangely Brown]

4 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

Another video of CanBus theft this time In Birmingham.

https://www.facebook.com/BirminghamaiCCTV/videos/1194377994519117/

Any idea how long ago that theft was? The video date says January.

Interesting to note that they did not go through the wheel arch. They pulled the bumper out.

[Rigsby]

1 hour ago, Strangely Brown said:

Any idea how long ago that theft was? The video date says January.

Interesting to note that they did not go through the wheel arch. They pulled the bumper out.

No idea other than the date on the post.

It just popped up on my feed and was surprised how quickly they did it and didn’t appear to move the arch liner out of the way.

[Hayzee]

15 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

Interesting to note that they did not go through the wheel arch. They pulled the bumper out.

If that's the case it pretty much negates what Lexus are doing with the RX series by retro fitting a plate in the wheel arch.

[Dushio]

The cheapest insurance quote for my 2019 rav4 that I could find was 70% more than last year. The renewal caught me off guard and despite searching everywhere online that was the cheapest I could find. If the same is going to happen next year the rav4 will be sold. Meantime it has a bright yellow Krooklock fitted to the steering wheel at all times. It still amazes me that other rav4 owners do not realise this major theft  issue as the number of other similar year RAV4’s that I see without a Krooklock! 
Toyota should come clean and announce that they have a major problem. 

[Hybrid21]

This type of theft is apparently common across a lot of vehicles including Landover, Mercedes, etc but certainly looking at the video it seems incredibly easy on the RAV4.

They would need to move the canbus access point to somewhere more difficult to reach so easily rather than fit a steel plate in the wheel arch. 😕

 

[Rigsby]

8 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

 

They would need to move the canbus access point to somewhere more difficult to reach so easily rather than fit a steel plate in the wheel arch. 😕

 

Agreed, but that doesn’t sound as though it’s going to help existing owners, as it’s probably not a retrofit solution.

Sad that in this day and age we need to clamp a heavy metal bar to our £40k purchase to help prevent theft by a pi$$ poor design fault 😡 

[philip42h]

49 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

They would need to move the canbus access point to somewhere more difficult to reach so easily rather than fit a steel plate in the wheel arch. 😕

The CAN bus connects together all the 'intelligent' components of the car. There's no CAN bus access point as such - it's everywhere. If a thief is prepared to damage the car to get at it they can and will do so. Making access more difficult at a known weak point is no more than a sticking plaster partial solution.

The retrofit solution for this particular weakness would be to eliminate keyless entry from the car altogether. If there is no keyless entry available there is no benefit in spoofing "key present" etc. etc. ...

That should be possible by reprogramming the various systems, but I have in no way thought through the details and consequences. 😉 

[Rigsby]

7 minutes ago, philip42h said:

The CAN bus connects together all the 'intelligent' components of the car. There's no CAN bus access point as such - it's everywhere. If a thief is prepared to damage the car to get at it they can and will do so. Making access more difficult at a known weak point is no more than a sticking plaster partial solution.

The retrofit solution for this particular weakness would be to eliminate keyless entry from the car altogether. If there is no keyless entry available there is no benefit in spoofing "key present" etc. etc. ...

That should be possible by reprogramming the various systems, but I have in no way thought through the details and consequences. 😉 

Vehicle security had become so good it was almost impossible to steal a car without physically having the key, hence the rise in burglaries to steal keys.

Keyless entry and start coupled with CanBus technology has opened the door (sorry about the pun) for the thieves.

[Yugguy1970]

Presumably though, if you are not accessing an obd port, you would need to know which wires to tap and where?  Isolating the port does at least stop someone just plugging an ODB cable in.

[philip42h]

12 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Presumably though, if you are not accessing an obd port, you would need to know which wires to tap and where?  Isolating the port does at least stop someone just plugging an odb cable in.

The ODB port is already secure inside the car - they are not accessing an ODB port ... 😉

[Rigsby]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Presumably though, if you are not accessing an obd port, you would need to know which wires to tap and where?  Isolating the port does at least stop someone just plugging an odb cable in.

I’m not privy to how exactly they are doing it but judging by the speed they can do it, in the dark with limited space to work in, I doubt that they are ‘splicing” or “tapping into” cables.

More likely a device that fits in between the disconnected headlight connector and the headlight that fools the system into thinking the key is present.

[Rigsby]

Not seen this article before 

 

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/04/crooks-are-stealing-cars-using-previously-unknown-keyless-can-injection-attacks/

[Strangely Brown]

5 hours ago, philip42h said:

The retrofit solution for this particular weakness would be to eliminate keyless entry from the car altogether. If there is no keyless entry available there is no benefit in spoofing "key present" etc. etc. ...

That should be possible by reprogramming the various systems, but I have in no way thought through the details and consequences. 😉 

AIUI you can enable/disable keyless entry via the infotainment screen. The question then becomes, if the keyless entry system is "disabled" then does the CAN attack fail as, presumably, the key being present is irrelevant.

I have asked this before but I don't think anyone is in a position to be able to provide a definitive answer and it is, naturally, untestable without the attack kit.

To Add: Even if disabling keyless entry does stop the CAN attack it will not stop the physical attack on the car because there is no way for the [upstanding members of society] to know that their attempt to steal the car will fail. So, you still end up with a damaged car, albeit maybe less than if stolen and recovered.

[Rigsby]

Mines a 21 Dynamic, all MY21 grades apart from the Icon have the smart entry and motion sensor key, but the Icon does have Push Button start, do we know if this type of attack can be done on the Icon model ?