2022 RAV4 stolen

[atartan]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

You will need to check the loom for damage in the front arch the broken aerials are for the DCM that's why they pulled the radio if it's just the locking tabs on the connectors that are broke these can be repaired is this why the quoted the whole loom. Quoting for the touch2 without testing is just poor - this sounds the sort of **** Jemca Croydon/Bromley/Sidcup pull

do you have pics of the connectors inside the car

I see how its done now, they pull the loom in the arch to get at the headlight plug (headlight uses can bus for control)

 

ps. get a Disklok asap

Going to Halfords soon to get one.. I will protect a state of art car with a £150 lock.. What a joke.. It was Currie Motors Toyota. I guess they are all the same. Franchise trying to increase their profit with this kind of scam.

[kucyk]

Just realised you recovered the car using your key, so they didn't even unbind your fobs, they just added another one.

28 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

EU anti competition laws prevents vehicle manufacturers securing access in to the vehicle systems via the OBD port.

The vehicle manufacturers could easily fix theft via the OBD port method but the EU law makers just won't let them.

That's what I thought, I also read there are some security measures implemented for this in > 2020 cars, not in RAV4 obviously.

[flash22]

25 minutes ago, kucyk said:

Just realised you recovered the car using your key, so they didn't even unbind your fobs, they just added another one.

That's what I thought, I also read there are some security measures implemented for this in > 2020 cars, not in RAV4 obviously.

Nope it's a direct physical can bus attack

[kucyk]

32 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Nope it's a direct physical can bus attack

I don't follow, do they open the car by some command via can bus? Then bind the fob when inside of the car, or no fob is involved in the theft?

[forkingabout]

Just now, kucyk said:

I don't follow, so they open the car by some command via canbus? Then bind the fob when inside of the car, or no fob is involved in theft?

It's a dedicated theft device someone has come up with to defeat the Toyota / Lexus security systems via the vehicles CAN network.

They need to get at the CAN wiring to carry out the attack.

No fob required.

 

[kucyk]

12 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

It's a dedicated theft device someone has come up with to defeat the Toyota / Lexus security systems via the vehicles CAN network.

They need to get at the CAN wiring to carry out the attack.

No fob required.

 

Thanks for the explanation. So securing the wire won't make a difference because they can always break the glass and connect to the ODB2 port right?

[Rhymes with Paris]

Do these devices have any legitimate use ?

Such as in the many times someone has lost their one key and is locked out of the car.

Or just theft,if so it makes me wonder how they can be legally sold.

[forkingabout]

6 minutes ago, kucyk said:

Thanks for the explanation. So securing the wire won't make a difference because they can always break the glass and connect to the ODB2 port right?

Yes as with any modern vehicle theft via OBD port is easy enough with the correct equipment.

[atartan]

There is 2 connectors that have loose wires behind the head-unit and some broken connectors in boot for the aerail. I dont think it would cost £6000 replace these. I also bought the lock for steering wheel not sure if it will protect the car. I guess better than nothing.

[kucyk]

So they just scrapped some insulation to get access to the cable. It's funny how primitive they are, if I was them, I would 3d print the female version of this connector to save time scrapping the plastic.

The lock for steering wheel will deter them for sure, they will just look for another car without it, there are plenty of RAV4s out there.

[DavidinDerbyshire]

18 hours ago, forkingabout said:

The Police have far higher priority things to deal with. 

There overworked & under resourced.

A lot of old time coppers like me would say you have those adjectives in the wrong places.  Too many cars, not enough boots. A curious street walking copper would have deterred that Youtube theft and possibly this one as well.   

[ernieb]

1 hour ago, atartan said:

There is 2 connectors that have loose wires behind the head-unit and some broken connectors in boot for the aerail. I dont think it would cost £6000 replace these. I also bought the lock for steering wheel not sure if it will protect the car. I guess better than nothing.

Wow, it beggars belief what the dealer tried to do to you. We all suspect these things happen to some extent but this goes to a whole new level. Hope you manage to get things sorted one way or another.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, kucyk said:

Thanks for the explanation. So securing the wire won't make a difference because they can always break the glass and connect to the ODB2 port right?

Other than when they break the glass the alarm will sound (which might put them off).

Now that we know about this type of CAN bus attack it seems obvious that all manufacturers should at least protect the wiring as best they can.

[Hybrid21]

18 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Wow, it beggars belief what the dealer tried to do to you. We all suspect these things happen to some extent but this goes to a whole new level. Hope you manage to get things sorted one way or another.

The dealers are taking the insurance company for every penny 😃

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Do these devices have any legitimate use ?

Such as in the many times someone has lost their one key and is locked out of the car.

Or just theft,if so it makes me wonder how they can be legally sold.

They live in a weird grey area - There's a whole underground cottage industry for weird 'hacking' gadgets like this. They range from 'aim bots' to help people cheat at video games to devices designed to tap into wifi networks or bypass security door maglocks.

But they're not technically illegal, for the same sorts of reasons lock picks aren't illegal.

I do wonder where they get these things tho - Would be helpful for all these posts here where people have lost their only key!!  

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, DavidinDerbyshire said:

A lot of old time coppers like me would say you have those adjectives in the wrong places.  Too many cars, not enough boots. A curious street walking copper would have deterred that Youtube theft and possibly this one as well.   

David, I am interested in your opinion,if you are comfortable in giving it.

I read on a regular basis about the supposed causes of crime such as poverty, poor childhood, deprivation etc etc.

I do realise that sometimes people get into desperate situations, such as homelessness, but as far as I know, certainly in my area there are several safety nets, night shelters,food banks, outreach etc.

But I am suspecting that the causes of most crime are simply the criminal mindset coupled with the characteristics of that, including extreme selfishness, utter greed , and a degree of sociopathy that excludes any regard for others,or conscience.

No worries if you are a serving police officer and cannot answer, I understand.

 

[ernieb]

Often some of these things are not illegal to sell but maybe illegal to use.

Having said that I did buy my grandson a lock pick set and padlock as a Christmas socking filler one year. He did enjoy the present and I’m pleased to say it didn’t turn him into a master criminal or even a very poor one!

[ernieb]

2 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

David, I am interested in your opinion,if you are comfortable in giving it.

I read on a regular basis about the supposed causes of crime such as poverty, poor childhood, deprivation etc etc.

I do realise that sometimes people get into desperate situations, such as homelessness, but as far as I know, certainly in my area there are several safety nets, night shelters,food banks, outreach etc.

But I am suspecting that the causes of most crime are simply the criminal mindset coupled with the characteristics of that, including extreme selfishness, utter greed , and a degree of sociopathy that excludes any regard for others,or conscience.

No worries if you are a serving police officer and cannot answer, I understand.

 

I’ve occasionally watched a TV series that focuses on insurance fraud and frankly non of the people on there are in financial difficulties, more often than not the opposite. But also thick as two short planks making the same claim on multiple insurance companies.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Aye ernieb , stupidity and greed seem to be a common thread.

 

[Yugguy1970]

I think I've missed something in this story?

Why aren't you just letting the insurers fix it all?

[atartan]

3 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I think I've missed something in this story?

Why aren't you just letting the insurers fix it all?

Maybe because I dont want to pay the excess and there seems to be nothing wrong with the car ? Rergardless where the money is coming from.. Insurance or myself paying it..Toyota is asking 6K to replace few connectors. Do you think I should just keep quite and let the fraud to continue ? 

[flash22]

The white connector up front is the FM aerial this can be repaired, the loose cable is for the DAB

the one at the rear looks like DAB maybe GSM

[atartan]

8 hours ago, kucyk said:

Just realised you recovered the car using your key, so they didn't even unbind your fobs, they just added another one.

That's what I thought, I also read there are some security measures implemented for this in > 2020 cars, not in RAV4 obviously.

If they registered another key.. do you know if there is anyway to find it out and de- register it ?

[Devon Aygo]

On 9/30/2022 at 9:51 PM, AJones said:

I quite agree, given the cost of the vehicles it is reasonable to expect a decent amount has been devoted to security measures which make it difficult to steal and that vehicle features have been robustly tested to ensure they are secure.

When you look at recent car security issues, the manufacturers have really dropped the ball. The catalytic converter thefts, when all it has needed is a few quids worth of steel plate to protect it. The replay thefts, largely solved by a couple of quid movement sensor in the keyfob to switch off the broadcast when they keys arent use.

There's something going badly wrong within the car manufacturers when they're churning out vehicles with ever more extras but they can't get basic security right. We shouldn't be having to faff about with steering locks in 2022.

 

You can't blame a manufacturer for building a car only for years later a component becoming a hot target for theft, the cat thefts are a relatively new issue yet catalysts have been fitted since 2001, it took nearly 16years and sky high resource costs before cats became an easy target.

The positioning of a catalytic converters under the car was/is largely dictated by design the cat needs to be hot ( 3-400 degrees ) but not too hot otherwise it would melt meaning they cannot be too close to the engine, "well Toyota moved them on newer cars" I hear you say, that was not through any intention of avoiding theft as the design of these new cars take current Gen Corolla for example would have began way back in the 2010's not long after Gen 2 Auris was launched and knowing the upcoming emissions regulations well in advance Toyota would have known they would need improved emission control devices such as a GPF (Gasoline particulate filter) to operate these like DPF need much higher temperatures and therefore are usually fitted right up against the engine making them much more difficult to access it was a fortuitous accident that this also coincided with high level of catalyst theft.

In Toyotas defence once the issue was noted they worked with Catloc and designed a product to mitigate the chance of theft, worked with and supported their suppliers to increase production, reduced the cost of Catalyst replacement to cost and offer free Smart water kit application to owners.

Shortly after the introduction of remote central locking thieves realised they could intercept the signal ever since its been a cat and mouse game, manufactures design a system or a fix these prevent the average street thieves however the organised gangs quickly work out how to overcome the update/fix/system, as we can see not long ago relay theft was an issue a fix was issued, people became aware and took action etc now CAN BUS attack is taking over.

In the case of CAN BUS attack a simple fix would be to prevent any system access without direct communication to a Toyota server e.g encrypt the system and only allow unencrypting via secure access but this would be against the law as EU anti monopoly law ( see Block exemption ) states that Toyota ( and any other car company selling in the EU ) cannot prevent open access to these systems or even access to their own diagnostic & technical information access is so easy it is discussed openly on the web and even by users of this helping others find free TechDoc downloads and where to find free software keys etc, put these systems into the hands of organised crime and CAN BUS attack is the result

[Yugguy1970]

13 hours ago, atartan said:

Maybe because I dont want to pay the excess and there seems to be nothing wrong with the car ? Rergardless where the money is coming from.. Insurance or myself paying it..Toyota is asking 6K to replace few connectors. Do you think I should just keep quite and let the fraud to continue ? 

I think you can't be short of a bob or two or you wouldn't be in a 2022 Rav.

I think for the sake of a few hundred quid you could be building up trouble in the future if the car is not officially fully repaired, when you come to sell it or trade it back in.

I think noone on here is trying to have a go at you but you take every comment that way.