2022 RAV4 stolen

[Strangely Brown]

Were I a thief (and I could read) I would probably not be paying any attention to stickers. If my task were to obtain a 2019-2022 RAV4 Hybrid then I would be looking only for the plate, badging and maybe the absence of a charge flap. If all good then check for a StopLock or other obvious deal breaker and make a decision.

If I were to get a hand in there and feel a plate blocking access to the plug then I move on. It would make no difference to me as others will be available. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That said, the sticker can only be positive. If they see it and decide to move on then job done.

There is always the standing joke for tradesmen with van sporting signs that say, "No Tools Left in This Van Overnight",  only for the thief to break in and then leave a note saying, "You're right. There aren't".

[Rigsby]

I’m not sure a sticker is much of a deterrent to would be thieves, it would take them around 30 seconds to determine whether or not the modification has been done, by which time they have already caused a certain amount of damage.

Unfortunately I think a more secure visible deterrent such as a quality steering wheel bar / lock is what is needed.

 

[nlee]

There's a lot of noise on Facebook groups about these plates, and it gives the impression that the problem will go away once fitted.

It can only be a good thing and may pause the current spree of thefts, but the thieves are only exploiting the most convenient point to access the Canbus. Many other brands of vehicles are stolen using this method but access is by another point. In some cases of high end vehicles, it's reported that panels are pryed apart, or even cut to access the wiring..At least that's less likely to be appealing in a public place. I can only imagine that the "brains" behind these criminal gangs will soon latch on to the next weakest point after a while.

[Yugguy1970]

Aye you can never prevent a theft, you can just put as many deterrents as possible to put them off.

[ToyotaFanDriver]

I understand the sticker sentiment but the worthless scum that do this sort of thing are too dumb to read stickers. If it was legal to booby trap... that would probably be far more of a deterrent....

[Station]

These are legal -

https://www.airsoftworld.net/alarm-trip-mine-12g.html

Not sure what damage a 12 gauge blank would do in a confined space like an inner wing, but I think the would be thieves would get a shock 😂

[Dushio]

A few nights ago my neighbour (2015jag x type) and his neighbour (2021 vw transporter type panel van) were stolen off their respective driveways in East London. My RAV4 plus Lexus UX both left alone because they both had bright yellow Krooklocks on them - I can only presume!

Can I request that the Moderators of this great forum make all Toyota owners and prospective owners aware in their respective car make model groups that Toyota has a major security issue that renders their built in security systems useless. 

[Strangely Brown]

Why on earth would someone want to steal a 2015 X-Type? The 2021 van, maybe, but the X-Type? 🤨

[Yugguy1970]

Either it wasn't actually an xtype or it was 2005 as the xtype stopped at 2009.

[Strangely Brown]

Just now, Yugguy1970 said:

Either it wasn't actually an xtype or it was 2005 as the xtype stopped at 2009.

Good point. Well made. 👍

[Dushio]

Yes, I did find it strange myself, so the same night a Range Rover sport 20 plate was stolen a few roads away and was left abandoned about 300 yds from its home. The owner is a car mechanic and he had fitted a kill switch to the fuel pump. The thieves couldn’t find the switch in the middle of the road after having stolen it so they abandoned the car and he retrieved his car. 
God only knows what the insurance on cars will be in this area at my next renewal if this situation keeps happening. 

[Terry10]

2 hours ago, Dushio said:

Yes, I did find it strange myself, so the same night a Range Rover sport 20 plate was stolen a few roads away and was left abandoned about 300 yds from its home. The owner is a car mechanic and he had fitted a kill switch to the fuel pump. The thieves couldn’t find the switch in the middle of the road after having stolen it so they abandoned the car and he retrieved his car. 
God only knows what the insurance on cars will be in this area at my next renewal if this situation keeps happening. 

Next thing I can see coming is that when people like me renew my insurance they will ask how many times in the coming year I will visit London/ Midlands. It always starts in the capital and will spread to the whole country eventually. Toyota are only rolling out this plate in certain areas at the moment which is a total joke.

Terry

[Vainona70]

If there is a limited supply of the remedy, how do you want Toyota to distribute it. 

Maybe, they are doing the right thing in targeting the right areas.

[Terry10]

26 minutes ago, Vainona70 said:

If there is a limited supply of the remedy, how do you want Toyota to distribute it. 

Maybe, they are doing the right thing in targeting the right areas.

Bottom line is that Toyota are still trying to keep this issue quiet. We have dealers claiming to know nothing about this problem and people in the relevant areas only get this plate fitted if they go and ask about it. Not aware of anyone on this forum saying that they got a call from a dealer letting them know that there is a problem and offering a fix. As for possible shortages of these protection plates let's face it, they could get them pressed out and painted by the thousand in a matter of days if they wished.nothing magic about a piece of shaped/ drilled sheet metal.Toyota like a lot of car makers don't like to admit that they have a design flaw and don't really care once they have the customers money.They aren't going to make much money by doing the right thing are they.

Terry 

[Cyker]

To be fair, dealers not knowing something is hardly unusual; I feel like a lot of them don't even read the bulletins Toyota GB circulate - My one didn't even know about the new Yaris with the 130HP drive train when I asked about it.

To quote my favourite adage, Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice something adequately explained by stupidity  

[FROSTYBALLS]

14 hours ago, Dushio said:

Can I request that the Moderators of this great forum make all Toyota owners and prospective owners aware in their respective car make model groups that Toyota has a major security issue that renders their built in security systems useless. 

At present we don't know whether the security issue affects other models in the same way, and certainly we're not getting similar theft reports to the Rav4, for other models. 

2 hours ago, Terry10 said:

Bottom line is that Toyota are still trying to keep this issue quiet.

We also don't know the scale of this type of theft, or whether it is currently limited to certain areas. Toyota may well be specifically targeting the worst areas or indeed countries for these thefts. It also takes time to test devices to make sure they are capable of preventing or delaying these thefts, and to set up contracts with suppliers once the design is finalised. Doubt that Toyota will be making these themselves.

[Strangely Brown]

5 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

At present we don't know whether the security issue affects other models in the same way, and certainly we're not getting similar theft reports to the Rav4, for other models. 

We also don't know the scale of this type of theft, or whether it is currently limited to certain areas. Toyota may well be specifically targeting the worst areas or indeed countries for these thefts. It also takes time to test devices to make sure they are capable of preventing or delaying these thefts, and to set up contracts with suppliers once the design is finalised. Doubt that Toyota will be making these themselves.

We have no hard data on actual numbers or distribution of thefts. What we have is a small(ish) number of incidents that are widely known and discussed and seem to be concentrated in or close to London and a couple of other cities.

If the problem was seriously huge then the one group of people that you can be absolutely certain would be all over it is the insurance industry. If the problem was that bad then we would all be looking at uninsurable (or as good as) hunks of steel sitting outside, not entirely like Range Rovers in London. Given that my premium went up only 50% (only?? I shock myself that I say that) this year is indicative that this is not a major issue, at least as far as they see it and increases across the board more than cover that. I asked the broker if there was any chatter in the industry about this issue and they have not heard of anything. The only comment I heard from them was that RAV4s are relatively expensive to insure because people crash them and they are expensive to repair.

I can tell you that the local constabulary has a department that analyses data and allocates resources for pro-active operational policing. This includes vehicle crime (thefts of and from) in different areas and they do not see anything unusual related to RAV4s for this force area (I asked). There are, or were, the usual cat thefts from cars with easily accessible cats but nothing related to relay or CAN thefts of RAV4s.

Toyota will have their own numbers based on which dealers are ordering which parts to repair vehicles that may have been recovered. As far as the plate goes, it might be nice to have but I am not sure that I will bother. The plate will not stop damage to the car because there is no way to know that it is there. For now at least, I am comfortable with using a StopLock whenever the car is parked overnight or anywhere secluded. Other than that I guess you just gotta roll the dice.

[Adaml99]

I’m not too sure steering locks are much of a deterrent either. This RAV4 was stolen with one installed 🤦‍♂️

 

[Dushio]

Depressing isn’t it? It looked as if it took less than 20 seconds to steal the car, 40 seconds if you take into account the removal of the steering lock. And all of this time Toyota UK remain completely quiet on the subject, it beggars belief.

incidentally, there was a recent post that stated there wasn’t proof that other models were affected on this website - we’ll scroll a few pages in on the Toyota CHR forum and the same thing is reported there so it does appear to be all models. Perhaps this is why Toyota have in the last 6 months withdrawn from sale the Camry and the Highlander and just perhaps the real reason the RAV4 was stopped from being ordered was because of the security issue rather than not being able to get Chips?

[Adaml99]

29 minutes ago, Dushio said:

Depressing isn’t it? It looked as if it took less than 20 seconds to steal the car, 40 seconds if you take into account the removal of the steering lock. And all of this time Toyota UK remain completely quiet on the subject, it beggars belief.

incidentally, there was a recent post that stated there wasn’t proof that other models were affected on this website - we’ll scroll a few pages in on the Toyota CHR forum and the same thing is reported there so it does appear to be all models. Perhaps this is why Toyota have in the last 6 months withdrawn from sale the Camry and the Highlander and just perhaps the real reason the RAV4 was stopped from being ordered was because of the security issue rather than not being able to get Chips?

Indeed it is @Dushio. It’s depressing enough having your vehicle stolen, but what’s equally depressing is the claims process afterwards and trying to get the true market value for your car. It just adds salt into the wounds and more stress you can do without. 

Before frosty balls took down my earlier post linking to the YouTube presentation about the CANBUS exploit, the security specialists shared the list of car makes and models that the hacking device they purchased on the black market is compatible with, so it’s definitely more widespread. The reason why RAV4s are targeted more is because it’s a very desirable car, as are most SUVs.

And let’s be honest, the RAV4s are incredibly good cars. I loved mine a great deal and trying to find an equal replacement from another car maker is proving a difficult task. Nothing touches the RAV4, and that’s saying something given I had it from new and in the first year I had some serious issues with it - all got resolved thankfully under warranty, but it made me question the build quality in some areas. 

I vented to the insurance company about Toyota and they shared with me that they are aware that Toyota are very concerned about the amount of thefts happening, and Toyota are urgently working with the MET to try and get it under control. I don’t know how much of that is true, mind you, but I did get the impression that this is getting a lot of attention internally across the motor and insurance industry. 

[NASY]

The really depressing thing here for me is that these people seem to get by in life thinking somehow, however screwed up that is, that theft is okay or justified in some way. These people are certainly in need of mental health intervention for their sake and the sake for the rest of us, so no light sentences but serious treatment for offenders. The 'organised' criminals who make the real money should be easy enough to identify but I guess it's the issue of getting enough hard evidence that will pass muster for the crown prosecutors. I will not put the blame on the manufacturers or the poor souls who pay their bills on time, earn money by working hard, raise their kids to do the right thing and then happen to park in what becomes the wrong place.

[George22]

Toyota RAV4 Owners Group on Facebook said that Toyota are paying the labour for the CANBUS fix but only London dealers 

[Dushio]

Hi George22. I’m in East London and we have a very reputable Toyota dealer just up the road. I will call them on Monday and report back with what they say. 
Thanks for the tip. 

[George22]

2 minutes ago, Dushio said:

Hi George22. I’m in East London and we have a very reputable Toyota dealer just up the road. I will call them on Monday and report back with what they say. 
Thanks for the tip. 

Hi, I’m in Devon but would still be good to see their response. Good luck.  

[Strangely Brown]

6 hours ago, Adaml99 said:

I’m not too sure steering locks are much of a deterrent either. This RAV4 was stolen with one installed 🤦‍♂️

 

Although it is not possible to see properly it does look like that was a disklok. The thief did not appear to remove the lock from wheel but only cut enough of the lock, maybe the bar, so that the car could be steered.

The interesting thing I noted was that the car's rear lights seemed to come on almost immediately the thief reached the car and before they pulled either the arch or bumper. Very strange and I wonder if the attack method has evolved.