2022 RAV4 stolen

[Strangely Brown]

2 hours ago, robo1 said:

I read that the reason the CANbus was not encrypted was encryption slowed down safety critical actions such as deploying the air bags. Would Toyota need to design a twin system with one unencrypted CANbus for safety critical actions and another encrypted for security / start up ?

Not encrypted. Signed. Huge performance difference.

If reports posted here are true then the PHEV and 2023+ HEVs use signed CAN comms, at least for the keyless entry / security modules.

[Cyker]

Yup; Conceptually it's like a wax seal on a letter - Rather than having to encrypt and decrypt the whole message - the data packet  - it just needs to verify the seal - the cryptographic signature - is intact.

It's quite clever stuff, as any change to the data packet makes the cryptographic signature invalid, like trying to modify a sealed message would break the seal, so it will be much harder to bypass and spoof but without the massive processing overhead of full encryption.

It does mean anything connected to the bus can read all the packets, but in this case that isn't a bad thing since it won't make diagnostics any harder.

As it's tried and tested tech in the computing world, hopefully the implementation will be relatively bug-free since it's well understood and nothing new or ground-breaking!

[Strangely Brown]

On 11/10/2023 at 9:32 AM, Strangely Brown said:

It is a good thing that the car(s) will now be much more difficult, or at least take a lot longer, to steal. It is unfortunate that the damage is still likely to be done in their attempt before they find the prevention. Even with the stickers from eBay a very visible deterrent is still probably needed, at least until such times as the word spreads.

Still, I look forward to my fitting on Monday even if the StopLock will be around for the foreseeable future.

All done. Car dropped at dealer first thing this morning. Wandered into town for a spot of breakfast. Text to say ready for collection 90 mins later. Very pleased.

First one they have done and, as yet, have had no other enquiries.

Now to grab a couple of stickers from eBay.

[robo1]

Just been rung this morning by the service department following my enquiry. Initial comments were they thought it was more a problem with the plug in hybrid not the HEV! After telling them they were wrong they changed tac and arranged an appointment to get the plates fitted.
Wondering as it apparently can take 2 hours to fit they are not keen on fitting as can only charge £70 ?

[Strangely Brown]

The paperwork that comes in the box with the plates says that fitting time is "under 60 minutes". That may be true for an experienced technician that has done a few but unlikely for a first or second time. Mine took 90 mins from drop off to collection this morning. Even by Toyota estimated timing, £70 is a bit on the light side for an hour labour at a main dealer.

That said, I have no idea what each dealer is able to claim back from Toyota under the campaign. It may well be more.

[Rigsby]

20 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

The paperwork that comes in the box with the plates says that fitting time is "under 60 minutes". That may be true for an experienced technician that has done a few but unlikely for a first or second time. Mine took 90 mins from drop off to collection this morning. Even by Toyota estimated timing, £70 is a bit on the light side for an hour labour at a main dealer.

That said, I have no idea what each dealer is able to claim back from Toyota under the campaign. It may well be more.

I know that the dealership is charged for the parts and have to claim the cost back from Toyota UK once they have been invoiced.

Maybe there is also an element of Labour that they can claim from Toyota UK at the same time ?

[Torrox]

Will all the new rav4 hybrid and rav4 plug in hybrid have this plate fitted?

[FROSTYBALLS]

12 minutes ago, Torrox said:

Will all the new rav4 hybrid and rav4 plug in hybrid have this plate fitted?

Ask Toyota GB.

[Strangely Brown]

53 minutes ago, Torrox said:

Will all the new rav4 hybrid and rav4 plug in hybrid have this plate fitted?

Why would they need it if they use signed comms and are therefore not vulnerable to a CANbus injection attack?

*IF* all PHEVs and MY2023+ HEVs use signed comms then there is nothing to fix. In that case the only vehicles affected are 2022 and earlier HEVs.

I say "if" because, as yet, it is still only an unrelated third party that says they do.

[Torrox]

6 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

Why would they need it if they use signed comms and are therefore not vulnerable to a CANbus injection attack?

*IF* all PHEVs and MY2023+ HEVs use signed comms then there is nothing to fix. In that case the only vehicles affected are 2022 and earlier HEVs.

I say "if" because, as yet, it is still only an unrelated third party that says they do.

Thank you for answering my question. I have looked on the internet but haven't found a clear answer. 

[pandor83]

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately I had mine taken last saturday in solihull (I parked in a side street near a retail park, the row of houses with cctv should have been a give away - I asked one of them for CCTV footage, turns out they had their cars stolen 3 times!).

So, recovered it 4 hrs later (would have been sooner if I realised that the car data gets sent to the myT app via toyota servers!). Luckily it looks like minimal damage, only a couple of clips.

Spoke to Birmingham Toyota, apparently they're not "setup" to install the metal plate!

From reading the comments, it doesnt sound like i need to, but do i need to recode all my keys?

 

[Radoslaw]

 

10 hours ago, pandor83 said:

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately I had mine taken last saturday in solihull (I parked in a side street near a retail park, the row of houses with cctv should have been a give away - I asked one of them for CCTV footage, turns out they had their cars stolen 3 times!).

So, recovered it 4 hrs later (would have been sooner if I realised that the car data gets sent to the myT app via toyota servers!). Luckily it looks like minimal damage, only a couple of clips.

Spoke to Birmingham Toyota, apparently they're not "setup" to install the metal plate!

From reading the comments, it doesnt sound like i need to, but do i need to recode all my keys?

 

Hi,

I would suggest to buy stoplock, and Faraday pouches for your keys if you have the keyless entry also when you press and hold the close door button press open doors button two times, keys will go in to sleep mode. I dont know about recoding however mine has those plates plus ghost immobilizer.

[Yugguy1970]

The dealer doesn't need to be set up to do the plates, it's a relatively simple job but it takea time.  They just don't want to spend the time.

[robo1]

Just had my protection plates fitted. £70 inclusive of VAT. Second car they have done. Took them 1 hour 15 minutes. First car took them 2 hours but now they know how to do it so much quicker.

[Rigsby]

12 hours ago, pandor83 said:

 

Spoke to Birmingham Toyota, apparently they're not "setup" to install the metal plate!

 

 

I had my plates installed about a month ago, previously my dealer had never heard of the CanBus attacks. I had called in twice spoke with the service manager, who said he would chase it up, but no joy.

So I emailed Toyota GB on cr@toyota.co.uk and explained my concerns and who my dealer was and got the reply attached, they contacted my dealer with details of the part numbers and installation process, my dealer then contacted me to arrange fitting.

So them saying that they are “not setup” is rubbish and they are just “fobbing you off”, email cr@toyota.co.uk and it will be sorted.

[George22]

6 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

I had my plates installed about a month ago, previously my dealer had never heard of the CanBus attacks. I had called in twice spoke with the service manager, who said he would chase it up, but no joy.

So I emailed Toyota UK on cr@toyota.co.uk and explained my concerns and who my dealer was and got the reply attached, they contacted my dealer with details of the part numbers and installation process, my dealer then contacted me to arrange fitting.

So them saying that they are “not setup” is rubbish and they are just “fobbing you off”, email cr@toyota.co.uk and it will be sorted.

They get a full instruction sheet telling step by step how to fit the plates, along with the parts, so it's no mystery for them.

[ELD1970]

Been several RAV’s stolen recently in my locality so finally bit the bullet and had a Ghost 2 installed. Still use stop lock as a visual deterrent and will leave hidden Air Tag in the car as well. Also had the plates fitted last month. Hopefully it’s not going to vanish now!!

[Rigsby]

15 hours ago, ELD1970 said:

Been several RAV’s stolen recently in my locality so finally bit the bullet and had a Ghost 2 installed. Still use stop lock as a visual deterrent and will leave hidden Air Tag in the car as well. Also had the plates fitted last month. Hopefully it’s not going to vanish now!!

Looks like you’ve done everything you can to protect your RAV4, and you’d be very unlucky to lose it, sadly it doesn’t stop them from trying and possibly causing some damage, but at least you’ll still have your car.

Just a pity we all have to go down this route, it seems as manufacturers build in more driver convenience (keyless entry, keyless start etc) and unprotected CanBus systems the more vulnerable we become.

Protection plates fitted, window stickers fitted, Stoplock fitted, AirTag fitted 🤞

[Parts-King]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:03 AM, Rigsby said:

So them saying that they are “not setup” is rubbish and they are just “fobbing you off”, email cr@toyota.co.uk and it will be sorted.

 

Not strictly true, I had no idea about the protection plates, I spent an age searching for the bulletin number, nothing! In the end I contacted Toyota who said they were "Not yet available" when they clearly were available in London. We are only as good as the information given. It was probably a month later before I could order them 

[Rigsby]

1 hour ago, Parts-King said:

Not strictly true, I had no idea about the protection plates, I spent an age searching for the bulletin number, nothing! In the end I contacted Toyota who said they were "Not yet available" when they clearly were available in London. We are only as good as the information given. It was probably a month later before I could order them 

I was referring to the phrase “not setup” rather than not knowing about it.

Not setup would (to me) suggest they did know about it but didn’t want to do it.

My own dealer knew nothing about it despite a number of enquiries from me and had trouble in getting any information, we, the general public, had known about it for many, many months and a quick email to customer relations returned a positive, detailed response within hours.

[Parts-King]

17 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

I was referring to the phrase “not setup” rather than not knowing about it.

Not setup would (to me) suggest they did know about it but didn’t want to do it.

My own dealer knew nothing about it despite a number of enquiries from me and had trouble in getting any information, we, the general public, had known about it for many, many months and a quick email to customer relations returned a positive, detailed response within hours.

A "quick email" from me returned a "not available yet" we are only as good as the info provided, even though I gave Toyota the bulletin number and part number, it was not available to order, I got my first one about a month ago, and that only materialised because the customer had contacted Toyota and it was sent to us directly. I still wasn't able to order one until a few weeks ago. I think the "not set up" referred to the part "not set up" on the parts ordering system to be able to place an order

[Cyker]

6 hours ago, Rigsby said:

I was referring to the phrase “not setup” rather than not knowing about it.

Not setup would (to me) suggest they did know about it but didn’t want to do it.

My own dealer knew nothing about it despite a number of enquiries from me and had trouble in getting any information, we, the general public, had known about it for many, many months and a quick email to customer relations returned a positive, detailed response within hours.

You can trust PK as he'd find a literal Denso needle in a Toyota haystack if asked   (And did in a way, when he found the part number for my 15" rims, which literally none of the other dealers I visited or phoned were able to do!! )

I can well believe that Toyota UK don't communicate new things very well with the dealers, as mine didn't even know about the Yaris 130 when I initially enquired about it, and were asking me where I was getting all this information  

 

[ColinB]

Just watching a review of the 2024 RAV4 GR Sport on YouTube, the Autogeful channel, and the reviewer commented on how many RAV4s are stolen. His car had an additional security dongle, although he didn't explain how this worked, with a sticker in the window. 

All I know is that when my insurance came up for renewal recently the quote went up from £350 last year to £620 and the best I could find was £520 🫤

[Strangely Brown]

20 hours ago, Parts-King said:

A "quick email" from me returned a "not available yet" we are only as good as the info provided, even though I gave Toyota the bulletin number and part number, it was not available to order, I got my first one about a month ago, and that only materialised because the customer had contacted Toyota and it was sent to us directly. I still wasn't able to order one until a few weeks ago. I think the "not set up" referred to the part "not set up" on the parts ordering system to be able to place an order

The parts guy at my dealership had exactly the same experience.

I asked about the plates, giving him full details of the campaign code and the part number and he was unable to do anything. He could find the part number as existing but the campaign code and the ability to order the part were not available to him. Even his asking Toyota about it did not get anywhere.

Only after I contacted CR and asked them to contact my dealer with details did things move. 3 days after I contacted CR I had a call from the dealer saying that my plates had arrived and I could book the car in for fitting.

The process is efficient once it has started. The problem seems to be that it requires at least one customer to get the dealer recognised. After that they can repeat the process.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pandor83]

thanks guys, I did suspect I was 'fobbed' off, as the service guy knew about the plates.

Expressed my displeasure via the live chat and was told it would be followed up. 24 hrs later still nothing, so I dropped them an email, within 1hr had the reply and booked in with the dealership to install the plate next week.

Annoyingly we do have a steering wheel lock, but the wife found it a bit cumbersome so its lived in the boot for the past year...