Red flag day at Toyota dealership while trying to order a new Corrolla

[Louie]

Hi Guys

Today i rang my dealership to get an answer to a previous email i sent to confirm a change in the specification in the Corrolla GR Sport 2l hybrid for the 2023 model. The change is the HUD has been scrapped. This was confirmed so i then asked if we could consider the Excel model. Now this is when things got  weird the salesman who originally signed me up for the original new car has mysteriously been moved to a different branch (code for sacked ?). So I then ended up talking to the sales manager/controller who immediately said "well i dont know how our  last guy you spoke to managed to get you this deal "  this immediately raises red flags. I have arranged to meet the same sales manager  this Thursday but i dont think i am going to like what his forked tongue is going to say.  A lot of his statements regarding current Toyota specs being changed randomly made no sense. Perhaps its time to get my deposit back and try a different dealer.

I have also heard a rumour that the quality of the plastics used in the new cars is very thin and finish quality is poor. Now having said that i saw a brand new Corrolla in the dealership last week and the paintwork can only be described  "orange peel".

Folks are also saying  now that Toyota have raised their prices people should think about a Lexus but i have read to some road test reviews and much to my surprise the ride quality is said to be poor e.g. stiff on some of the lest costly models.

Grateful for all your comments

regards

Louie

[Bper]

Having previously ownew a couple of Lexus and test driven a few of the new ones. Apart from the CT 200H the ride quality is very good but it is a individual thing as one size does not fit all.

I would certainly recommend a Lexus but test drive a few and judge for yourself.  They are not cheap but great to drive.

[fourbanks]

1 hour ago, Louie said:

Hi Guys

Today i rang my dealership to get an answer to a previous email i sent to confirm a change in the specification in the Corrolla GR Sport 2l hybrid for the 2023 model. The change is the HUD has been scrapped. This was confirmed so i then asked if we could consider the Excel model. Now this is when things got  weird the salesman who originally signed me up for the original new car has mysteriously been moved to a different branch (code for sacked ?). So I then ended up talking to the sales manager/controller who immediately said "well i dont know how our  last guy you spoke to managed to get you this deal "  this immediately raises red flags. I have arranged to meet the same sales manager  this Thursday but i dont think i am going to like what his forked tongue is going to say.  A lot of his statements regarding current Toyota specs being changed randomly made no sense. Perhaps its time to get my deposit back and try a different dealer.

I have also heard a rumour that the quality of the plastics used in the new cars is very thin and finish quality is poor. Now having said that i saw a brand new Corrolla in the dealership last week and the paintwork can only be described  "orange peel".

Folks are also saying  now that Toyota have raised their prices people should think about a Lexus but i have read to some road test reviews and much to my surprise the ride quality is said to be poor e.g. stiff on some of the lest costly models.

Grateful for all your comments

regards

Louie

I found my brief time with my 22 GR sport corolla not great and can confirm that the ride quality was good but the plastic and overall finish poor. With today's price of the 1.8 GR sport at £33'000 this represents poor value along the Lexus ux 2 litres at £33'500 with a solid build 

[simond64]

2 hours ago, Louie said:

Hi Guys

Today i rang my dealership to get an answer to a previous email i sent to confirm a change in the specification in the Corrolla GR Sport 2l hybrid for the 2023 model. The change is the HUD has been scrapped. This was confirmed so i then asked if we could consider the Excel model. Now this is when things got  weird the salesman who originally signed me up for the original new car has mysteriously been moved to a different branch (code for sacked ?). So I then ended up talking to the sales manager/controller who immediately said "well i dont know how our  last guy you spoke to managed to get you this deal "  this immediately raises red flags. I have arranged to meet the same sales manager  this Thursday but i dont think i am going to like what his forked tongue is going to say.  A lot of his statements regarding current Toyota specs being changed randomly made no sense. Perhaps its time to get my deposit back and try a different dealer.

I have also heard a rumour that the quality of the plastics used in the new cars is very thin and finish quality is poor. Now having said that i saw a brand new Corrolla in the dealership last week and the paintwork can only be described  "orange peel".

Folks are also saying  now that Toyota have raised their prices people should think about a Lexus but i have read to some road test reviews and much to my surprise the ride quality is said to be poor e.g. stiff on some of the lest costly models.

Grateful for all your comments

regards

Louie

I’d recommend you do a carwow quote before u go, that’ll give u five offers, currently about 13.8% including the £2250 contribution which Is good is about 8% plus the Toyota discount. Used prices are high and push that, know your cars value before u go. 
I went with a dealer 160 miles away, third time I’ve done that and has been worth it financially. Sometimes you get a rogue salesman so get everything in writing. 
I’m having the excel 2l TS, got pearlescent paint one current model which is very good finish, have a look at pearlescent at the dealer, it’s ceramic not metallic and has a 3 coat process not 2. 

[Persimmon]

13 hours ago, Louie said:

I have also heard a rumour that the quality of the plastics used in the new cars is very thin and finish quality is poor.

The window trims in the 2021 and 2022 Corollas (hatchback and estate) are pretty bad. Below are some pictures of my 2022 2.0 GR-Sport Touring Sports. I've checked other cars at the dealerships, and they are all like that. 

Also, some exterior plastics aren't aligned very well, gaps aren as even as they usually are on German cars for example (see one pic below).

[Persimmon]

13 hours ago, Louie said:

Folks are also saying  now that Toyota have raised their prices people should think about a Lexus but i have read to some road test reviews and much to my surprise the ride quality is said to be poor e.g. stiff on some of the lest costly models.

I had a 2022 Lexus NX 450h+ for a 1-hour test drive. It is quieter, and the ride is softer than a Corolla, but not by much. I expected that 70k€ car to feel otherwordly in terms of comfort, but it was just a "better Toyota" at most. What also surprised me is the amount of creaks in the interior. Sure, it's a demo vehicle, but it only had 7000 km on the odo. 

Sorry for being "negative", but I can't stop feeling that the cars (and everything else) are declining in quality... 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Persimmon said:

I had a 2022 Lexus NX 450h+ for a 1-hour test drive. It is quieter, and the ride is softer than a Corolla, but not by much. I expected that 70k€ car to feel otherwordly in terms of comfort, but it was just a "better Toyota" at most. What also surprised me is the amount of creaks in the interior. Sure, it's a demo vehicle, but it only had 7000 km on the odo. 

Sorry for being "negative", but I can't stop feeling that the cars (and everything else) are declining in quality... 

Well, 

this has been a trend since around 2004 on everything but mostly on cars and other technology. The quality drops by the day.
Since the lockdown and the shortage of everything including labour Toyota cars particularly has worsened in quality of workmanship, parts too. Even Toyota officially has announced that as a result of short supply will use parts in their cars that previously had been refused. Add the lack of well trained and motivated mechanics, lower quality parts supply, forced ( rushed) manufacturing and the results are obvious. It is not only Toyota but pretty much if not all perhaps many others too. I noticed that first around 2015 when I looked at Auris gen 2 how much worse was built in comparison with previous generation, materials, design, built quality not a par with gen 1. Then  around 2019 when the new models came out I went to the dealer to check, and I was shocked to discover while design and technology has vastly improved the materials and workmanship were not. 
Usually there is nothing wrong Lexus been a plusher Toyota as they had always been similar to Audi been a plusher Vw. The problem is when these base models and names get worsened, then even the plusher ones will go down in many terms. The eco credentials also play a role in parts built and materials used.
All in all the customers are paying more but they are getting less, or perhaps getting bigger screens inside. 😉👍

[Persimmon]

14 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Well, 

this has been a trend since around 2004 on everything but mostly on cars and other technology. The quality drops by the day.
Since the lockdown and the shortage of everything including labour Toyota cars particularly has worsened in quality of workmanship, parts too. Even Toyota officially has announced that as a result of short supply will use parts in their cars that previously had been refused. Add the lack of well trained and motivated mechanics, lower quality parts supply, forced ( rushed) manufacturing and the results are obvious. It is not only Toyota but pretty much if not all perhaps many others too. I noticed that first around 2015 when I looked at Auris gen 2 how much worse was built in comparison with previous generation, materials, design, built quality not a par with gen 1. Then  around 2019 when the new models came out I went to the dealer to check, and I was shocked to discover while design and technology has vastly improved the materials and workmanship were not. 
Usually there is nothing wrong Lexus been a plusher Toyota as they had always been similar to Audi been a plusher Vw. The problem is when these base models and names get worsened, then even the plusher ones will go down in many terms. The eco credentials also play a role in parts built and materials used.
All in all the customers are paying more but they are getting less, or perhaps getting bigger screens inside. 😉👍

I agree.

What I find the most infuriating is the fact that manufacturers continue to invest tremendous resources into gadgets, screens, half-baked voice-based interfaces, AI, apps and "connected packages" rather than build quality. Everything feels more and more like a counterfeit Chinese knock off. Where are all the originals? Where is the quality? 

(I bet the most expensive Porsche will feel cheap (to me) as soon as I interact with its half-baked software (no, other kinds of software don't exist in commercial products, and I'm saying this as a software engineer).)

My dream is to have a new, modern, quiet, comfortable car with the level of technology of a flagship 2005 Lexus. Adaptive cruise control, parking sensors with a backup camera and smartphone mirroring is the only technology I really need. Otherwise, I'd happily pay the same dozens of thousands for the car that lacks multiple screens, digital instrument clusters, internet connectivity, smart assistants, HUDs, gesture controls, etc. 

I guess the majority of consumers really value inches of screens more than usability and good craftsmanship. But I don't really believe that. I don't believe all those market researchers. People don't know what they need, they just eat whatever marketing departments tries to sell them. Now add motoring journalists constantly talking about "technology" and "smart features"...

[Kental]

While I agree some of the welds and panel line ups could be neater on the Corolla, I find ours well built with (I really don't want to temp fate) no significant rattles or knocks.  Granted road noise is higher than I would  like (hopefully in a week or so ditching the Falkens may help with that), but the feeling of the controls and the majority of the areas you touch are very good.

The car rides superbly with positive feeling steering and reassuring handling.  The seats are comfortable and the overall ambiance positive.

The elephant in the room is MyT and the my22 Infotainment. The whole implementation is rushed and half baked to quickly fit the existing space. Why oh why remove the hard buttons without expanding the screen to fill the space. The system has a border similar to the screen on a 1980s TV!!!

[TonyHSD]

Absolutely 👌,

inches of screens 📺,  inches of wheels 🛞, sportier seats, and ultra low figures 0-60 🏎🏁, wider bodied and lower roof lines but the simple basics are neglected to the extent that many cars are unsuitable for day to day use, uncomfortable and unpractical. There are so many new makes and models cars from all categories but tbh only very few are really of any interest to me.   Sometimes I am thinking that the auto industry should scrap all designs of car bodies and power trains and start from scratch, learn again the fundamentals of the business and go back to early 1900’s . 

[Gerhard_Corolla]

The never ending balance between the Market's demands and expectations, marketing departments and research, and where the latter ones decide in which price bracket place the car. In my view, the car is being downgraded mechanically and in building quality, in order to aggregate technological gimmicks like assisted parking and steering, reading road signals, radar cruise control, and automatic high beams. Nonetheless, the technological safety features are a blessing, like emergency braking, blind spot monitor, and the glorious amount of airbags present...

 

Without hesitation I would choose a mechanically sound vehicle with a lot of safety features, and the Corolla could indeed be placed in the current price brackets, and couldn't be the least bothered about all the additional technological gimmicks. But is that what "The Market" wants? Toyota seems to think otherwise, unfortunately...

[Yugguy1970]

IMO the GR sport is overpriced for what it is, it's the same cost as an Excel but the same spec as a Design.

For both the cars we're just ordered we got a printed quote and signed for the overall deal, also our salesman doesn't have final say on the offers, it always goes back to one of the finance managers for signoff.

[Yugguy1970]

4 hours ago, Persimmon said:

 

My dream is to have a new, modern, quiet, comfortable car with the level of technology of a flagship 2005 Lexus. Adaptive cruise control, parking sensors with a backup camera and smartphone mirroring is the only technology I really need. Otherwise, I'd happily pay the same dozens of thousands for the car that lacks multiple screens, digital instrument clusters, internet connectivity, smart assistants, HUDs, gesture controls, etc. 

 

I completely agree with this.

It's like mobile phones.  What I want doesn't exist, I want a phone with the latest CPU, RAM and storage.  But a completely basic OS.  Phone, text and calendar should be the only things installed by default.  EVERYTHING else should be my choice.

[Yugguy1970]

20 hours ago, Louie said:

Now having said that i saw a brand new Corrolla in the dealership last week and the paintwork can only be described  "orange peel".

 

Was it definitely a 2023 model?  Our dealer said they wouldn't have any to test drive til December.

[Hybrid21]

I definitely will look elsewhere when it comes to change. Build quality means more to me than hi tech.

But I cannot deny my RAV4 is really nice to drive and it may be difficult to achieve the same satisfaction in terms of driving pleasure  👍

 

[TonyHSD]

For me there are two types of cars currently

- Toyota hybrids and the rest. 

The reason for that is simple: - there is no other drive train available on any other make or model that can match Toyota ( Lexus) drivability, efficiency and reliability. Here we are talking about standard cars for day to day driving needs, commuting or business drive and trades, taxi, delivery etc. No other car manufacturer offers same or similar hybrid or non hybrid ice power trains.   This is what makes Toyota leader in the business. They should not relay on that matter only and should make their cars as good as before or even better because many people will not value this fact over better build quality, plusher materials, faster performance, and general satisfaction. Surfing the net, watching videos and reading reviews and comments there are plenty of people who are disappointed from having latest Toyota cars and they will depart and not return in near future., some even before had a chance to learn and understand the magic of Toyota hybrids. Well, not my fault, it’s Toyota own fault, therefore if any of their representatives read here and I am sure there are , please make a note. 👌😉

[Hybrid21]

Well said Tony, couldn't agree more 👍

[Roy124]

The first Toyota that I experienced was a Celica.  I disliked the feeling of sitting with my bum on the road.  It put me off for 50 years. 

I only bought my Corolla through indifference from other dealers and a first class salesman.  Now on my second Toyota abs still delighted with my choices. 

[eyemdee]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

For me there are two types of cars currently

- Toyota hybrids and the rest. 

The reason for that is simple: - there is no other drive train available on any other make or model that can match Toyota ( Lexus) drivability, efficiency and reliability. Here we are talking about standard cars for day to day driving needs, commuting or business drive and trades, taxi, delivery etc. No other car manufacturer offers same or similar hybrid or non hybrid ice power trains.   This is what makes Toyota leader in the business. They should not relay on that matter only and should make their cars as good as before or even better because many people will not value this fact over better build quality, plusher materials, faster performance, and general satisfaction. Surfing the net, watching videos and reading reviews and comments there are plenty of people who are disappointed from having latest Toyota cars and they will depart and not return in near future., some even before had a chance to learn and understand the magic of Toyota hybrids. Well, not my fault, it’s Toyota own fault, therefore if any of their representatives read here and I am sure there are , please make a note. 👌😉

I couldn't agree more. My 2019 Corolla was the best car I have ever owned and trading it in for a 2022 model after just 12,500 miles was a mistake. Indifferent service from the dealer, numerous irritations with the new "better" software, cost cutting measures like removing the engine cover, and a navigation system that cannot find the obvious shortest route all combine to show that Toyota are moving backwards in customer satisfaction.

[Eddie G]

6 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

For me there are two types of cars currently

- Toyota hybrids and the rest. 

The reason for that is simple: - there is no other drive train available on any other make or model that can match Toyota ( Lexus) drivability, efficiency and reliability. Here we are talking about standard cars for day to day driving needs, commuting or business drive and trades, taxi, delivery etc. No other car manufacturer offers same or similar hybrid or non hybrid ice power trains.   This is what makes Toyota leader in the business. They should not relay on that matter only and should make their cars as good as before or even better because many people will not value this fact over better build quality, plusher materials, faster performance, and general satisfaction. Surfing the net, watching videos and reading reviews and comments there are plenty of people who are disappointed from having latest Toyota cars and they will depart and not return in near future., some even before had a chance to learn and understand the magic of Toyota hybrids. Well, not my fault, it’s Toyota own fault, therefore if any of their representatives read here and I am sure there are , please make a note. 👌😉

Agree, need the all round quality to be maintained.

[Schnozz]

16 hours ago, Persimmon said:

The window trims in the 2021 and 2022 Corollas (hatchback and estate) are pretty bad. Below are some pictures of my 2022 2.0 GR-Sport Touring Sports. I've checked other cars at the dealerships, and they are all like that. 

Also, some exterior plastics aren't aligned very well, gaps aren as even as they usually are on German cars for example (see one pic below).

British Leyland quality right there!

[Yugguy1970]

If the reports on how the new one drives are true, with increased electric rather than engine power, it could be really good to drive.

I don't necessarily want faster, but quieter would be nice.

[50p]

8 hours ago, Schnozz said:

British Leyland quality right there!

there're not that good!

[Gerhard_Corolla]

14 hours ago, Schnozz said:

British Leyland quality right there!

Still better than Teslas manufactured anywhere!

[Roy124]

9 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

If the reports on how the new one drives are true, with increased electric rather than engine power, it could be really good to drive.

I don't necessarily want faster, but quieter would be nice.

Well Yaris Cross after Corolla - the smaller engine has a 'chunky' sound when it starts from cold or you start to pull away on a slope.  This disappears when the revs build up.  There is no rpm indication but it would be about 1,000 rpm on a conventional car.

The windscreen is of acoustic glass whereas the 1.8 Corolla is not.  The bonnet also has acoustic cladding again the Corolla does not.  The required audio level on the radio seems to be lower though direct comparison is not possible as they use different scaling.

Overall we think the Yaris Cross is quieter.