Destruction of the EGR cooler heat exchanger.

[Max_Headroom]

I saw this link in another thread discussing catalytic converters but when i scrolled to the bottom i found this many owners are not going to be happy when they read this -  

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-08-01_faq_df_r3_en.htm

"As known, due to the destruction of the EGR cooler heat exchanger, coolant ingress the EGR channels and then into the cylinders. At the same time, abundant deposits (in the form of powder or crystals) form in the gas channels, often the EGR valve sticks. External symptoms - white smoke from the exhaust pipe, engine hesitation and power loss, the appearance of DTC codes (P319000, P04019C etc.), antifreeze level drops and engine overheat is possible. All this take place on cars rather new and at rather low mileage.

In general, the reason is clear - since the new generation (Dynamic Force) Toyota began to equip all the gasoline engines with high-performance EGR systems with water cooling, but did not provide for the necessary durability and corrosion resistance for real operating conditions. EGR coolers have long been used in diesel models, and internal heat exchanger leaks also occur there, but such cases are much less resonant (besides, fatigue cracks covered by the warranty are among the reasons). Also owners of hybrid 2ZR-FXE (where EGR also plays an important role) meet a similar problem.

However, in this case, Toyota decided to consider corrosion due to using of low-quality gasoline with an admixture of chlorine compounds as the cause and set out its position in the latest TSB EG-00691T-TME (02.02.2022). Repairs should be paid by the owners (the usual bill in S.Europe was $1500 as of 2021), but regional offices can provide a discount. At the same time, the service life of the new EGR cooler is also completely unpredictable."

  ,

[flash22]

Previously been posted, I have the full TSB, It's to do with contaminated fuel usually found in Europe  (seems a common issue in Italy) - It has been linked to faulty parts from the supplier but not proven

Be aware this effects the Mk4 and Cross only (M15A- engines)

 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

Not even one car of the affected models been reported to suffer this issue in England. Definitely rubbish fuels. But hey when you share that the engines it’s not happy and doesn’t sound healthy when full up at certain places people are laughing and saying bs. We may not getting these problems here for now but there are also other problems that can arise from using the cheap and cheerful fuels. For now nothing to worry about, however finding the best possible fuel and sticking with it it’s a good idea. Also a bottle of redex or wynns injector cleaner in the boot and in case you noticed any poor performance after you just had filled up, don’t wait, stop and add the thing into the tank so you are kind of on the safe side. 

[Max_Headroom]

That's good to know Tony,  I wonder what or what isn't in the cheap fuel that causes the damage.

[flash22]

Chlorine eats away at the alloy the EGR is made from

A snip from the TSB

Quote

Subject:

White smoke, Lack of power and/or engine
hesitation (sometimes with DTC P319000,
P04019C) due to internal damages in the
EGR system (Oxidation caused by Chlorine
contamination)

Area of Application:
All Markets

Models – Model Codes:
Aygo - KGB40 ;
C-HR - MAXH10 ;
Corolla - MZEA12, MZEH12 ;
RAV4 - AXAA52, AXAA54, AXAH52, AXAH54,
AXAL52, AXAL54, MXAA52, MXAA54 ;
RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid - AXAP54 ;
Yaris - KSP211, MXPH11 ;
Yaris Cross - MXPB10, MXPJ10, MXPJ15 ;

Engines:
1KR-FE; A25A-FKS; A25A-FXS; M15A-FKS;
M15A-FXE; M20A-FKS; M20A-FXS;

 

[TonyHSD]

Here how my egr cooler and egr valve looks before I had it cleaned. I did used oven cleaner, then special egr cleaner spray and even some jet wash and metal spoke. Not sure I am going to clean that much next time. For now is good over 90k miles. When turn 100k + will get it open again and check. 

[Cyker]

Yeah that TSB was very specific, it's not a common/widespread issue.

From what I remember, it was specific to chlorine-contaminated fuel in Italy; Really the fuel companies there should have footed the bill, but of course they denied responsibility.

I guess the moral is don't buy fuel from Italy  

 

Gotta say that EGR valve looks surprisingly rusty; The one in my Mk1 D4D was just coated in a crusty layer of baked on soot so I couldn't even tell if it was rusty or not  

I don't even know where the valve is on the Mk4... don't think I could get at it easily anyway given how packed the engine bay is!!  

[TonyHSD]

7 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah that TSB was very specific, it's not a common/widespread issue.

From what I remember, it was specific to chlorine-contaminated fuel in Italy; Really the fuel companies there should have footed the bill, but of course they denied responsibility.

I guess the moral is don't buy fuel from Italy  

 

Gotta say that EGR valve looks surprisingly rusty; The one in my Mk1 D4D was just coated in a crusty layer of baked on soot so I couldn't even tell if it was rusty or not  

I don't even know where the valve is on the Mk4... don't think I could get at it easily anyway given how packed the engine bay is!!  

Access it’s easy , top left corner, but I don’t think you need to do anything. Perhaps some cleaning after 100-150k miles. 👍

[Cyker]

Ooh that's more convenient than I thought! Good to know!  

That Toyota attention to detail at work again!  

[Roy124]

Did a camping holiday in Italy.  Filled to max in Austria, drove economically in IT, filled to max in Switzerland.  All we had in Italy was lots of hot air 😂

[TonyHSD]

I believe in Germany and Austria the fuels are of a good quality mostly. I traveled across Europe few times and never had any issues or noticed any engine noises or lack of power, however in UK it’s completely different story. Often I have poor fuel quality  and strange engine noise and behaviour, and this is not only on one car, but few hybrids and non hybrid petrol. 

[RickyC]

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah that TSB was very specific, it's not a common/widespread issue.

From what I remember, it was specific to chlorine-contaminated fuel in Italy; Really the fuel companies there should have footed the bill, but of course they denied responsibility.

I guess the moral is don't buy fuel from Italy

Yes, the reason according Toyota is Chlorine contaminated fuel, but there are a lot of strange points.

100% of times nobody found any contaminant in in the fuel remaining in the reservoir and there's no correlation between involved users and the same fuel station.  If a fuel station is supplying  contaminated fuel it's logical to think that all cars that have refilled there wiil show the issue.  So it's hard to sue the petrol company for having sold contaminated fuel.

Moreover the involved people said that the diagnosis has always been made by remote just looking a picture of defective egr without any laboratory analisys of damaged components.

Has really been clorine ( that has crossed injection, valves and cylinders in liquid form without any impact ) that, after having been expelled with burned gasses, has started to eat the heat exchanger?  Or the heat exchanger has been broken by vibration or termic shocks.  

Has really been clorine that left all that white deposits on EGR valve or has been vaporized coolant that has been sprayed in the EGR channel ?

If Toyota considers that it's an Italy specific issue why has released an Europe wide TSB ?  

Moreover in China more than 900K Toyota cars have been recalled due to defective EGR heat exchager. 

So I should say "Don't buy fuel fron China" ?

The issue involves M15A Yaris engines and also 2.0 and 2.5 engines used by Corolla, CHR and RAV. 

Seem it's not involving older 4 pots 1.5 yaris Mk3 engine and Corolla / CHR 1.8 one.  

[flash22]

I did put a quote above, but i will post it again

Subject:

White smoke, Lack of power and/or engine
hesitation (sometimes with DTC P319000,
P04019C) due to internal damages in the
EGR system (Oxidation caused by Chlorine
contamination)

Area of Application:
All Markets

Models – Model Codes:
Aygo - KGB40 ;
C-HR - MAXH10 ;
Corolla - MZEA12, MZEH12 ;
RAV4 - AXAA52, AXAA54, AXAH52, AXAH54,
AXAL52, AXAL54, MXAA52, MXAA54 ;
RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid - AXAP54 ;
Yaris - KSP211, MXPH11 ;
Yaris Cross - MXPB10, MXPJ10, MXPJ15 ;

Engines:
1KR-FE; A25A-FKS; A25A-FXS; M15A-FKS;
M15A-FXE; M20A-FKS; M20A-FXS;

 

 

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

 (Oxidation caused by Chlorine contamination)

Area of Application:
All Markets

Does anyone know why Chlorine is in the fuel and why it has not affected other Toyota models and other makes of car?

[TonyHSD]

37 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Does anyone know why Chlorine is in the fuel and why it has not affected other Toyota models and other makes of car?

I don’t know and I have no idea If  chlorine has caused anything in other cars. What I know is that the major difference between these affected engines M series and the ones who seems unaffected is the dual injection, port and direct injection while 2zr- … engines including Yaris up to 2020 are only port injection. Yaris/Yaris cross 2020 onward hybrids although have  M series engines they have only port injection.
Correction: in UK they have no issues., I don’t know about abroad. Corolla has popular video from Italy with engine problems. 

 

[Max_Headroom]

I have heard smoother tractors  😁

[flash22]

Chlorine is a bi-product of burning contaminated fuel, chlorine and hydrocarbons can make an oxidized acid

could the actual part be at fault - yes - low grade materials and/or poor/non-existent coatings in the manufacturing process

High recall rates in China, parts produced by the lowest bidder - I wonder......................

[Max_Headroom]

11 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Chlorine is a bi-product of burning contaminated fuel, chlorine and hydrocarbons can make an oxidized acidcould the actual part be at fault - yes - low grade materials and/or poor/non-existent coatings in the manufacturing processHigh recall rates in China, parts produced by the lowest bidder - I wonder......................

 

I wonder why they said all markets if it's mainly china.

Area of Application:
All Markets

[flash22]

Toyota FAW and GAC build 95% of cars just for the Chinese domestic market, but the part is common worldwide

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

Does anyone know why Chlorine is in the fuel

Poor refining process. There is chlorine in the crude in a few forms, typically from salts, but it's a fine balance to get it all (or enough) out without damaging the refinery purification equipment.