yaris cross 4 wheel drive capability

[Garth.]

30 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

And you don't seem to be able to admit he got round the first time with no problem

 

3 hours ago, Garth. said:

Of course, at first attempt he made it

Is there any chance you will understand what's written above?

 

And you're still not getting what happened later on the hill. I am not talking about going reverse on the area from the pictures. I am talking about the later point where he got stuck and used the trick for FWD cars - that is climbing on reverse gear to put more load on driven axle. Watch the video carefully if you missed that. 

And of course, just like the other guy, you are ignoring the rolling back and one wheel spin situations.

 

38 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

no one in their right mind would take their Cross out in such a hilly place in conditions like this

That's correct, it's not wise to take Cross there. Choose something with more effective awd system. These are not any extreme roads, normal winter conditions in many countries.

[Max_Headroom]

 

Again i refer to my earlier post - 

At the beginning of the video he  does the full climb in one go as the pictures and his comments above prove, he then stops goes back down and tries again and as he says in the pictures below  he steers to the steepest part of the climb doesn't keep momentum up and fails, no one in their right mind would take their Cross out in such a hilly place in conditions like this its not a 4x4 designed to cope with such conditions and Cross owners  know this when they buy them. 

 

 

 

 

[SinglePointSafety]

Actually, looking at these posts and the videos, I've learned a fair bit and feel reassured about my YC 'mild-AWD' and despite the somewhat 'robust views' I think we've converged to the following:

(1) If driven with mechanical sympathy and some knowledge of how the YC's AWD system works, in most situations you're likely to face it will improve on a 2WD version and (probably) get you where you need to be provided of course you have appropriate tyres (as my neighbour says, his Landie won't be venturing out in snow or mud without the right rubber for each - and this guy has a **lot** of experience)

(2) There are cars with 'better' 4WD or AWD systems. The roller test might have limited applicability to real-life situations (and that depends on where any of us will be driving) but nonetheless is a controlled experiment and shows the limitations of the YC's AWD system....but....

(3) These limitations are well-detailed and explained by Garth's input (thanks hugely Garth, nice job) and demonstrate the compromises that Toyota have made - a reasonably-capable system that is low-mass and (for them to make) reasonably inexpensive, with minimal fuel consumption penalty, so kudos to the Toyota engineers

[Garth.]

Thank you @SinglePointSafety, I think your comment should end this discussion. 

33 minutes ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Toyota have made - a reasonably-capable system

If only the starting torque was higher... - and that's the question to Toyota if that can be achieved by software update or is it already on mechanical limit level of the Q510 motor. 

[anchorman]

I thought if I ignored him I wouldn’t have to see his posts???

[Garth.]

47 minutes ago, anchorman said:

I thought if I ignored him I wouldn’t have to see his posts???

Tick in "posts". 

[Garth.]

49 minutes ago, anchorman said:

I thought if I ignored him I wouldn’t have to see his posts???

Tick in "posts". 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

I thought if I ignored him I wouldn’t have to see his posts???

Well I have to thank him for telling me how to do it.  

[IT Troll]

I actually found Garth’s first post interesting and learnt some technical details about the AWD-i system in my car. Coming from an all mechanical RAV4 with always-on 4WD, the AWD-i system is clearly a step down in capability. But then I have more than doubled my MPG. I would have liked to have seen the Yaris Cross perform better in the synthetic tests. But in reality, will the AWD-i system suffice for the situations I will encounter? Probably.

[anchorman]

4 hours ago, IT Troll said:

I actually found Garth’s first post interesting and learnt some technical details about the AWD-i system in my car. Coming from an all mechanical RAV4 with always-on 4WD, the AWD-i system is clearly a step down in capability. But then I have more than doubled my MPG. I would have liked to have seen the Yaris Cross perform better in the synthetic tests. But in reality, will the AWD-i system suffice for the situations I will encounter? Probably.

All the details are freely available in pdf form on Toyota Techdoc.  For €4 an hour you can browse and download very detailed PDF’s about how every part of a Cross works.  Anybody that comes from a vehicle testing environment will ignore the so called failings without knowing the test parameters and seeing in instrumented vehicle.   My car went up steeper hills in deeper snow but they have some gruelling hills in Europe and that fella playing games in the video might have had the rear axle red hot and shutting down to protect itself for all we know - he might not but without being there we have no way of knowing.  We couldn’t see the far wheel either but despite him proclaiming what a fantastic job it had done the footage was condemned.  That might have been the first car ever to follow a skier up there, again too many unknowns and you can only ignore it.  The guy I’ve excluded was aggressive in his response and the moment a single person that knows nothing about testing praised him he wants to shut the conversation down.  People can believe what they want but I’d need much more information before reading anything into these so called tests - they’re just people that think they know what they’re doing playing in the snow.  Even the qualified engineers in Suzuki would ignore the apparent success of their own car.  

[Garth.]

8 hours ago, anchorman said:

Well I have to thank him for telling me how to do it.  

You didn't sense the sarcasm. 

 

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

All the details are freely available in pdf form on Toyota Techdoc. For €4 an hour you can browse and download very detailed PDF’s about how every part of a Cross works 

Then why didn't you share the info about the system? Is there en explanation of control software? Starting torque value is also missing. Bring it. 

 

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

The guy I’ve excluded was aggressive

Aggressive? Quote me.

 

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

he wants to shut the conversation down

You may continue - just stop repeating the same pointless things over and over again, stop attacking everything around. Put some serious info about AWD-i here, including explanation, what was happening with UX Q510 motor. Was it red hot before he approach that funny hillock? 

[Bob66]

  Well at least the AWD i ....has a better rear suspension setup...if nothing else?

[TonyHSD]

1 minute ago, Bob66 said:

  Well at least the AWD i ....has a better rear suspension setup...if nothing else?

That’s right 👍 Although I will prefer the fwd one because it has only two rubber bushes that will eventually require replacement at later age and mileage where the awd suspension has at least 12 , just from a long miles old car driver point of view 😂👌

[SinglePointSafety]

21 hours ago, Garth. said:

If only the starting torque was higher... - and that's the question to Toyota if that can be achieved by software update or is it already on mechanical limit level of the Q510 motor

Yes Garth, I was wondering the same: the compromises Toyota have made (cost, mass, complexity, reliability, fuel consumption penalty, effect on boot space, servicing requirements) would be an interesting conversation with the Toyota engineers

[anchorman]

13 hours ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Yes Garth, I was wondering the same: the compromises Toyota have made (cost, mass, complexity, reliability, fuel consumption penalty, effect on boot space, servicing requirements) would be an interesting conversation with the Toyota engineers

Maybe if they took the back seats out and doubled the size of the Battery it would be ideal for playing in the mountains.  They clearly don’t know as much as we do on this forum.  

[SinglePointSafety]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

Maybe if they took the back seats out and doubled the size of the battery it would be ideal for playing in the mountains.  They clearly don’t know as much as we do on this forum.

That's not what I meant achorman, and I think we all know that: the Toyota engineers are of course the real experts, and I was merely thinking what an illuminating and interesting conversation it would be to have with those engineers as they explain their eventual landing point in the multi-dimensional compromise phase space. As a STEM professional I often mix with experts way outside my own disciplines and I really, really enjoy talking to these people and learning about their expertise (as much as I can understand anyway!)

[Yugguy1970]

23 minutes ago, SinglePointSafety said:

That's not what I meant achorman, and I think we all know that: the Toyota engineers are of course the real experts, and I was merely thinking what an illuminating and interesting conversation it would be to have with those engineers as they explain their eventual landing point in the multi-dimensional compromise phase space. As a STEM professional I often mix with experts way outside my own disciplines and I really, really enjoy talking to these people and learning about their expertise (as much as I can understand anyway!)

Exactly.  Toyota could have put a colossal Battery pack, motor on each wheel and proper 4wd capability on.  And then the Cross would cost about 50k and appeal to perhaps 0.1% of the buying public. 

You don't buy a Cross, or even a Rav, to go mud-plugging.

All cars built to a price are compromise.  Apart from maybe this one.  https://carbuzz.com/news/worlds-only-street-legal-tvr-cerbera-speed-12-heads-to-auction  Which TVR built just one of.

 

 

 

[Garth.]

1 hour ago, SinglePointSafety said:

what an illuminating and interesting conversation it would be to have with those engineers as they explain their eventual landing point in the multi-dimensional compromise phase space

Indeed. Especially that Yaris Cross has two different awd systems, the "classic" one has much higher starting torque (if we can call it like that when talking about the clutch-pack) and generally it engages rear axle much more. Toyota also says that F/R torque split of hybrid version is from 100/0 to 40:60. It would be nice to know how did they come up with that second value and in what condition it may happen. It's a momentary peak for sure but I haven't found any real world behaviour confirming that. 

 

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

You don't buy a Cross, or even a Rav, to go mud-plugging

Of course. Just for a test or fun - Toyota took both (Hybrid versions) for some sand driving. YC got stuck and they tow it out by Rav4, which did very well. Petrol version of YC AWD probably wouldn't need that help. 

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, SinglePointSafety said:

That's not what I meant achorman, and I think we all know that: the Toyota engineers are of course the real experts, and I was merely thinking what an illuminating and interesting conversation it would be to have with those engineers as they explain their eventual landing point in the multi-dimensional compromise phase space. As a STEM professional I often mix with experts way outside my own disciplines and I really, really enjoy talking to these people and learning about their expertise (as much as I can understand anyway!)

We (Ferodo) did do development work with Toyota but I didn’t personally.  I did work with Isuzu and I attended engineering meetings in Japan.  They don’t think like Europeans, they have a wonderful work ethic and they are extremely talented engineers.  I’m not even in the motor industry any more but I can predict the objective of the AWDi version.   Provide a cost effective AWD alternative for those that might require additional traction in poor weather.  That means, it doesn’t need to go off road or do anything agricultural, they have Hilux and Land Cruisers for that, this is a modern fuel efficient compact city car.  It needs a rear drive unit to assist in poor weather not a rear wheel drive to match the front.  Mazda have a media spokesman to give explanations of this kind but it doesn’t take a genius to work it out.  The spec of my AWD Cross is perfect for what I need and it has the uprated suspension and it integrates the AWD with the VSC which is all I expect at the price point.  I’m not saying you shouldn’t like to meet with a representative of the design department but you could anticipate the answer.  

[IT Troll]

In Toyota's official AWD-i marketing video they are quite restrained about the capabilities of the system and only really talk about road use.

• Rear motor provides assistance and supports a stable drive when starting on slippery road surfaces.
• Supports secure starts even on slippery slopes.
• Trail Mode - Applies the brake to the spinning tyre and allocates torque to the tyre touching the road surface.
• Snow Mode - Tempers accelerator openness and supports starts that limit lippage on slippery road surface. Have the vehicle fitted with four snow tyres or purchase a set of tyre chains for the front tyres.

Then there are marketing videos featuring the non-Hybrid AWD system which tells a different story and perhaps leads to higher expectations across the range.

 

[Garth.]

17 hours ago, IT Troll said:

In Toyota's official AWD-i marketing video they are quite restrained about the capabilities of the system and only really talk about road use.

• Rear motor provides assistance and supports a stable drive when starting on slippery road surfaces.
• Supports secure starts even on slippery slopes.
• Trail Mode - Applies the brake to the spinning tyre and allocates torque to the tyre touching the road surface.
• Snow Mode - Tempers accelerator openness and supports starts that limit lippage on slippery road surface. Have the vehicle fitted with four snow tyres or purchase a set of tyre chains for the front tyres.

Then there are marketing videos featuring the non-Hybrid AWD system which tells a different story and perhaps leads to higher expectations across the range.

 

I was trying to point that out right from the beginning but then I was diagnosed being sponsored & aggressive, who needs to grow up.

Yaris Cross is not an offroader, that's obvious. But those who claim it was designed only for onroad use should answer the question - why petrol version does have MUD & SAND and ROCK & DIRT modes, does it sound like onroad conditions?

[IT Troll]

2 hours ago, Garth. said:

Yaris Cross is not an offroader, that's obvious. But those who claim it was designed only for onroad use should answer the question - why petrol version does have MUD & SAND and ROCK & DIRT modes, does it sound like onroad conditions?

In the UK (main focus of this club/forum) we only get the hybrid version with AWD-i. So people may not have knowledge/experience of models available in other regions.

[Garth.]

25 minutes ago, IT Troll said:

In the UK (main focus of this club/forum) we only get the hybrid version with AWD-i. So people may not have knowledge/experience of models available in other regions.

I think entire Europe gets only hybrid Yaris Cross. That doesn't change the fact that Toyota offers it with completely different awd system, just like it is in case of Rav4.

[IT Troll]

Will you be testing it?

[Garth.]

@IT Troll Unfortunately no, there's no such version available.