yaris cross 4 wheel drive capability

[TonyHSD]

Hm, nice. 

 

[Max_Headroom]

4 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hm, nice. 

 

Too much wheel spin when he boots it on dry land needs that back axle sorting  😉

[IT Troll]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Hm, nice. 

Good job. That is a hybrid AWD-i model too.

[Max_Headroom]

 

A massive bugbear of mine why do people video vertically, you wouldn't hang your TV on your living room wall like this

 

 

[TonyHSD]

True about the screen record 🫢

I did similar crossing last night on a country lanes, probably was even slightly deeper and it’s kind of cool but not really healthy for the car.
Would love to drive an awd car in similar conditions., probably the most enjoyable driving experience for my personal likes - nature, clean air, all terrain car 😉

Here some memory  pictures from my past experience driving a proper awd car at a beautiful places 🏞

[Garth.]

Desert car tuning expert about Yaris Cross, it's protection plates etc. + some sand driving (article unfortunately only in Polish but it includes quite a lot of chassis photos). 

https://e.autokult.pl/bierzemy-toyote-yaris-cross-na-warsztat-i-sprawdzamy-czy-nada-sie-do-jazdy-w-terenie-specjalista-pozytywnie-zaskoczony,6869956671040128a

[TonyHSD]

Another 4x4 test, not  a Yaris but it’s interesting 

 

[Cyker]

You're 2 days late!!!  

[IT Troll]

Love it, performs similar to the Yaris Cross. 😜

[Garth.]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:55 PM, TonyHSD said:

Another 4x4 test, not  a Yaris but it’s interesting 

 

Oh yes, that was a serious test 😉

But no jokes now - this post is an intro of a short analysis I'm preparing, concerning the differences between AWD system of gasoline and hybrid Yaris Cross. Both versions went through roller platform thus I'd like to explain what can we learn from these tests. It's not just about pass/fail. There's much more information to get - like differences of reaction time (or pro-action) of awd system or traction control, intensity of engagement, lags etc. Here's a video about interpretation of results, helpful in understanding of what's coming up next with Yaris Cross analysis:

 

[anchorman]

I don’t blame you for wanting to build your YouTube Channel up but I do find it distasteful that you present them in such an authoritative way.  You refuse to acknowledge that those of us with them have had very good results in the real world which is what matters to potential buyers.  The fact is that while you and your mates play games on none representative zero friction rollers, you could do so for a week and still not have 1% of the data that Toyota hold on their AWDi system as anyone who has been involved with a real world VM Development environment will know.  Anyway, it seems to interest some of the uninformed here and now you’ve invested in the tee shirts you’re clearly not going to give up so it looks like I’ll have to put up with it.  I tried to ignore you but I kept seeing half a comment which seems odd, I was hoping it would blank out absolutely everything to do with your antics.  That isn’t you personally, I’d buy you a beer if I came across you and your mates while I listened to your incessant justifications!  You’d have to forgive me for nodding off while you were at it though 😉

[Garth.]

17 minutes ago, anchorman said:

I don’t blame you for wanting to build your YouTube Channel up but I do find it distasteful that you present them in such an authoritative way.  You refuse to acknowledge that those of us with them have had very good results in the real world which is what matters to potential buyers.  The fact is that while you and your mates play games on none representative zero friction rollers, you could do so for a week and still not have 1% of the data that Toyota hold on their AWDi system as anyone who has been involved with a real world VM Development environment will know.  Anyway, it seems to interest some of the uninformed here and now you’ve invested in the tee shirts you’re clearly not going to give up so it looks like I’ll have to put up with it.  I tried to ignore you but I kept seeing half a comment which seems odd, I was hoping it would blank out absolutely everything to do with your antics.  That isn’t you personally, I’d buy you a beer if I came across you and your mates while I listened to your incessant justifications!  You’d have to forgive me for nodding off while you were at it though 😉

I'm not preparing the analysis of my tests. But as a person involved with awd systems and experienced with roller tests - I am preparing short analysis of roller tests which Toyota did itself during presentation of Yaris Cross. 

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

 I tried to ignore you but I kept seeing half a comment which seems odd

The problem with blocking is you cannot block quotes (of the blocked person) appearing in other members posts when they quote them  so its a bit pointless.

[Max_Headroom]

I doubt any AWD owner is going to intentionally take their car out in conditions like this but will have peace of mind having watched this that it is capable of  driving in conditions where  a 2WD would have got stuck.

 

 

 

[Garth.]

Toyota Yaris Cross roller test made in Japan during presentation of the model. Presentation included a few "offroad" obstacles, one of them was roller platform, used for lateral μ–split test (different grip between right and left wheels). Two versions of Yaris Cross were tested, that is hybrid with AWD-i system (which is called "E-Four" in Japan) and gasoline with Active Torque Control AWD system. There's quite a lot of other videos from the same event as many automotive journalists were there, I chose this one cause it's short and clear.

The first difference between AWD-i and ATC can be seen before the actual test, that is when cars reach the first roller, it shows how much pushing force is delivered by rear axle. Hybrid goes first - at 0:11 you can see the excessive overspin of the right front wheel, grip is lost immediately when hitting the roller. Compare it to the gasoline version at 2:46, which barely notices that the wheel went through roller - due to effective ITCC compression, rear axle prevents the front from losing grip. If car was stopped at that point (with one front wheel on a roller), AWD-i system would have much more difficulty to get out due to too low rear engine starting torque. System would be forced to use rear axle push combined with traction control intervention on front axle, we would see massive overspin before moving on (like in Rasto Chvala test when one front wheel was on ice). ATC system would use only rear axle to push the car out, traction control wouldn't intervene as there would be almost no overspin of front right wheel.
Next challenge comes when both right wheels are on rollers. Both versions of Yaris Cross pass this test easily when appropriate mode is selected but there's an important difference. AWD-i system shows about 1-2 seconds delay of rear axle engagement (0:20, 1:57) while ATC powers both axles at the same time (2:54, 3:08), right from the start. In real conditions, for example when starting on ice, that may be crucial factor in certain situations. 
Reading the opinions of Japanese journalists and users, AWD-i system is doing good job but ATC system is much more capable - and that's probably the reason why Toyota advertises gasoline version in offroad circumstances.
However AWD-i system has an advantage when crawling at idle in normal mode. Due to electric motors it crawls through obstacles with more ease, ATC needs mode change before hitting the obstacle, otherwise engine may stall. 
That's a pity there's no gasoline version of Yaris Cross AWD/ATC in EU, that would be interesting to get more opinions from users, especially in direct comparison with AWD-i. For now it's all we got from Japan.

 

On 4/8/2023 at 12:14 PM, anchorman said:

You refuse to acknowledge that those of us with them have had very good results in the real world

FYI: I never questioned any good experiences of users, you didn't read my posts so you simply don't know that. I just didn't agree with some of your ridiculous statements so you tried to depreciate my posts and ignore some weak points of the AWD-i which appeared in winter tests, sand tests (and roller tests to). If you think I'm wrong or I provided any false information - quote my words first, don't make them up and then create argumentative response.
I'm not going to answer to any argumentum ad personam stuff or other pointless things about t-shirts or whatever. We can have a beer and discuss seriously only about AWD-i, ATC etc., nothing more. I'm not a kid but I've been driving AWD/4WD/4x4 since I was a "kid". Almost 30 years of experience in conditions which you defined as "gruelling hills in Europe", which are absolutely normal and daily for thousands people living in my area (Western Carpathians - Bieszczady mountains, Tatra mountains), so believe me - I know what I'm talking about. If any awd system has some issues - I am trying to discover it, not to hide it. Your (and the other guy) attitude looks exactly the opposite, nothing bad can be said.

 

[anchorman]

9 hours ago, Garth. said:

Toyota Yaris Cross roller test made in Japan during presentation of the model. Presentation included a few "offroad" obstacles, one of them was roller platform, used for lateral μ–split test (different grip between right and left wheels). Two versions of Yaris Cross were tested, that is hybrid with AWD-i system (which is called "E-Four" in Japan) and gasoline with Active Torque Control AWD system. There's quite a lot of other videos from the same event as many automotive journalists were there, I chose this one cause it's short and clear.

The first difference between AWD-i and ATC can be seen before the actual test, that is when cars reach the first roller, it shows how much pushing force is delivered by rear axle. Hybrid goes first - at 0:11 you can see the excessive overspin of the right front wheel, grip is lost immediately when hitting the roller. Compare it to the gasoline version at 2:46, which barely notices that the wheel went through roller - due to effective ITCC compression, rear axle prevents the front from losing grip. If car was stopped at that point (with one front wheel on a roller), AWD-i system would have much more difficulty to get out due to too low rear engine starting torque. System would be forced to use rear axle push combined with traction control intervention on front axle, we would see massive overspin before moving on (like in Rasto Chvala test when one front wheel was on ice). ATC system would use only rear axle to push the car out, traction control wouldn't intervene as there would be almost no overspin of front right wheel.
Next challenge comes when both right wheels are on rollers. Both versions of Yaris Cross pass this test easily when appropriate mode is selected but there's an important difference. AWD-i system shows about 1-2 seconds delay of rear axle engagement (0:20, 1:57) while ATC powers both axles at the same time (2:54, 3:08), right from the start. In real conditions, for example when starting on ice, that may be crucial factor in certain situations. 
Reading the opinions of Japanese journalists and users, AWD-i system is doing good job but ATC system is much more capable - and that's probably the reason why Toyota advertises gasoline version in offroad circumstances.
However AWD-i system has an advantage when crawling at idle in normal mode. Due to electric motors it crawls through obstacles with more ease, ATC needs mode change before hitting the obstacle, otherwise engine may stall. 
That's a pity there's no gasoline version of Yaris Cross AWD/ATC in EU, that would be interesting to get more opinions from users, especially in direct comparison with AWD-i. For now it's all we got from Japan.

 

FYI: I never questioned any good experiences of users, you didn't read my posts so you simply don't know that. I just didn't agree with some of your ridiculous statements so you tried to depreciate my posts and ignore some weak points of the AWD-i which appeared in winter tests, sand tests (and roller tests to). If you think I'm wrong or I provided any false information - quote my words first, don't make them up and then create argumentative response.
I'm not going to answer to any argumentum ad personam stuff or other pointless things about t-shirts or whatever. We can have a beer and discuss seriously only about AWD-i, ATC etc., nothing more. I'm not a kid but I've been driving AWD/4WD/4x4 since I was a "kid". Almost 30 years of experience in conditions which you defined as "gruelling hills in Europe", which are absolutely normal and daily for thousands people living in my area (Western Carpathians - Bieszczady mountains, Tatra mountains), so believe me - I know what I'm talking about. If any awd system has some issues - I am trying to discover it, not to hide it. Your (and the other guy) attitude looks exactly the opposite, nothing bad can be said.

 

Are we revisiting this again?  What don’t you understand, you can play these games as long as you like but the car does exactly what I want it to do.  I don’t need or want it to do anything more than what it did in the deep snow where I live.  

[Garth.]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

Are we revisiting this again?  What don’t you understand, you can play these games as long as you like

Not me, that's what Toyota did during presentation of Yaris Cross for tens of local automotive journalists. Besides I already explained what info can we get from these games, that's something you don't understand. If you think I'm wrong - no problem, just refer to my conclusions about the presentation, to the point.

 

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

I don’t need or want it to do anything more than what it did in the deep snow where I live

OK, good for you, great you're satisfied. But the world is much bigger than the place where you live. And the subject is not about you and your needs but about AWD-i & ATC abilities worldwide. 

 

[Mojo1010]

Yawn, damn aren't you guys tired yet? Have not followed this thread though read a few comments. At the end of the day, if users are happy with what the car does for their surrounding conditions then what does it matter with an AWD with an i or not?

[anchorman]

55 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

Yawn, damn aren't you guys tired yet? Have not followed this thread though read a few comments. At the end of the day, if users are happy with what the car does for their surrounding conditions then what does it matter with an AWD with an i or not?

I can’t stop him Mojo.  He won’t accept that I don’t give a sh*t about his experiments.  Don’t drag me into his nonsense.  

[IT Troll]

14 hours ago, Garth. said:

Toyota Yaris Cross roller test made in Japan during presentation of the model.

That is actually an interesting comparison of the two systems. It was quite a surprise to see that both the petrol ATC AWD and hybrid AWD-i got similarly stuck in normal mode. Both then escaped the rollers in a similar time once trail mode was activated. The hybrid system comes out looking pretty good comparatively when you consider the added efficiency/emissions benefits over pure ICE, whilst still getting the job done.

The fact that neither drive system seems able to automatically adapt to the conditions is something that Toyota really needs to work on though.

[anchorman]

6 hours ago, IT Troll said:

The fact that neither drive system seems able to automatically adapt to the conditions is something that Toyota really needs to work on though.

Why, when it drives perfectly on a normal road and it has buttons to suite other conditions?

[Tel 2]

My Brother in Law is a LR nut & believes my AWD Cross, with all its features & rear suspension difference is very well equipped for driving on UK roads.

Forum Buds North of the Border are chuffed with Crosses even though many have the FWD. The Low Gross Weight & non Chelsea Tractor Tyres is key of course for anyone who understands how to drive in snowy conditions.

AWD values rocketed this Winter in recognition of these Qualities & I could go on but I need to prepare my Car for GP Practice @ Castle Donnington Race Course.

I fully expect it to struggle but will be upset if they Question my logic as mine is a car & so is theirs.

I will let you know how I get on.

Tel

[Garth.]

9 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

At the end of the day, if users are happy with what the car does for their surrounding conditions

Never claimed different, never questioned that. But the topic says "yaris cross 4 wheel drive capability" so the question is - should it be said "the system is fine" and topic is over or is it something to discuss. Besides - there are two different awd systems of the same car, I find it interesting.

 

9 hours ago, anchorman said:

I can’t stop him Mojo.  He won’t accept that I don’t give a sh*t about his experiments.  Don’t drag me into his nonsense.  

Stop lying about me. I already told you:

On 3/27/2023 at 7:37 PM, Garth. said:

Forget then about roller tests

&

On 3/27/2023 at 11:52 PM, Garth. said:

Stop talking again and again about the rollers, are they your obsession or what?

but you're still sticking to this as you have absolutely nothing interesting to say on the subject. And again - latest test was made by TOYOTA, not by me.

 

8 hours ago, IT Troll said:

It was quite a surprise to see that both the petrol ATC AWD and hybrid AWD-i got similarly stuck in normal mode

In my tests, AWD-i didn't get stuck in in normal mode, it passed lateral test easily but my rollers probably have more resistance than the ones prepared by Toyota. The system got stuck in snow mode due to power cutting.

[IT Troll]

2 hours ago, anchorman said:

Why, when it drives perfectly on a normal road and it has buttons to suite other conditions?

The same could be asked of the the automatic systems for wipers, lights, steering, brakes, etc. A mixture of safety and convenience.

In the case of the AWD-i it is meant to intelligently adjust torque delivery depending on the driving conditions. I would argue that if the car is stuck and the wheels are spinning it should automatically adapt the drive mode to re-establish grip. The buttons are a useful manual override but it seems to me like the system needs some more intelligence.

[Yugguy1970]

I'm finding all these videos interesting and I really like the one from Garth that shows how all the different cars with different types of system behave.

And I really want an awd RAV, time to start saving and hope interest rates fall in a couple of years 🤣