Difference AYGO X to old version worth while buying new ?

[haelewyn]

No slang available.

If you just use the numbers where I live, everybody will know you mean liters / 100 km.

Many people use km per liter but I don't know if that is more usable for you.

[Drew Peacock]

we had a mild hybrid kia for a while. it was aweful. drove me crazy stopping and starting. our sons 2022 kia ceed gt-line 1.5t is better on fuel aswell.

tell you the 1.5t dct gearbox 160ps kia ceed gt-line is an incredible car. 5l per km100's tank to tank. about 55 mpg. very fast and luxurious. amazing car. 30k new though.

our aygo was half the price.. most of the time we'll be using our amazing leaf. another amazing car to drive. dont be fooled by the bland looks. the latest generation leaf is a 10 out of 10 car to drive and own. imho as quiet as a rolls royce. having driven about 4 million miles in my lifetime i can tell if a car is good pretty quickly.

agyo? 6 out of 10

aygo for the money?

9.5 out of 10.

 

aygo right now is running at 4.7l per km's..about 60 uk mpg. no motorway though. coming home from stockholm it averaged 5.3l per 100km's about 53 mpg.

leaf in summer costs us 1 euro to go 100km's unbeatable. problem is now when it can go below minus 30c. lucky to get 60 miles to 100% Battery

[haelewyn]

My "new aygoX" has a stop / start system too.  Would probably not engage on cold winter days in Sweden. Yours ? 

If you have the button (in front of the left knee) to switch this system off, you have it too.

My Aygo 2021 didnt have the start/ stop. Dont know what I would prefer.

My renault was in stock one year before I started driving it. The Battery was in such a state already that the start stop only worked just after a 30 miles trip. Lot of conditions to allow it to work also, on the renault. 

The aygoX is less picky and it works more often here.

The 6 and 9,5 out of 10 : you are right there imho.

Mild hybrid... I doubt the usefulness of this system. Just for better official co figures, I guess.

[Drew Peacock]

funny you say that. just had to wait for snow plough to clear a small road. stop start does work in minus 8c.

6.5 out of 10 as a car. it's not as good as most other cars i've had.

but for what it is and what it costs it's amazing.  amazing they cant get small cars like this to do say 80 mpg..this aygo is just a little better than my sons 160 bhp kia.

his car shows 900km's range on a full tank. 45l tank. so our aygo's are kinda of the same. i always thought these 3 cylinder motors where an utter waste of time. why dont they make them 4 pot with a turbo? wont take anymore fuel as my sons kia proves that.

must be because they are cheaper to make.

mild hybrid? is that some kind of joke. all that complex stuff for nothing. 

nothing beats a good diesel for economy. best car i ever owned for mpg was a hyundai i30 diesel. 4.5l 100km's.super car

[haelewyn]

I didn't want a small hyperperformance car with turbo and direct injection.

I remember the toyota salesman said their 1200 in the corolla was a lot better than the renault. But now it seems they have the same problems (but later / maybe less) and it isn't sold any more after only a rather short time of existence.

I regularly do small disrances and along with idle running, these blocks are not suitable for this kind of habbit. 

However, I need a car that survives my (still normal) usage. So a simple block,  no turbo, no direct injection. One that can last at least 150.000 km without problems. 

Since my yearly usage is around 7.000 km I found it a bit overkill to buy a 30 or 50.000 euro car.

Still happy with my choice for the aygoX. 

[Drew Peacock]

cheap is all i want nowadays from my cars. cheap and reliable.

i've had new camaros 2 brand new mustangs. big suv's.all endless money pits. now pushing 60 i want cheap transportation..i have a company van for work. the wife takes the bus to work. so our 2 cars are for shopping and the odd drive to somewhere new. 

lucky the wife has zero interest in cars. she only pops to the shop and back in the leaf. she hates driving. all she loves is to be home with our little pug and reading a good book.

right now we're saving to buy a villa in spain. house long paid off here so over the next 5 years hoping to get enough to buy a nice place outright

[Drew Peacock]

this has been my favourite muscle car. amazing car to drive and own. big mistake trading it for a brand new mustang in 2016.

that was my car the day i picked it up. everywhere i went people would stop and ask me about it. chevy nailed it with the gen5 camaro.

[Cyker]

There is a lot of variance in stop-start - The only car I've owned that had it was my Mk2 Yaris, and it rarely worked because the Battery was a few years old and I guess below the threshold the ECU wanted.

When it did work tho', the car would start instantly, it didn't even crank, just fired up immediately and off you went.

I assumed this was the case with all, but since then I've been in a few other cars with it, and on most the implementation was much worse; On some it's literally like starting your car again so you have a significant delay before you can move again - Just what you want at a roundabout or busy junction!

I thought on a mild hybrid it would give some in-fill from the 48v system while the engine got back up to speed, but it's not really very good and I can see why people disable them.

The only system it works really well on is proper hybrids with proper traction motors - Hardly anything can get off the line as quick as my Mk4    But I guess those don't really count as that's quite different from a stop-start system.

 

[haelewyn]

Bad thing in Aygo II and AygoX stop-start is that when the car starts up again, you need to let it run some seconds or it will likely stall.

Just use the throttle more works too but that is treating the clutch bad.

Same problem occurs when driving with the aircon on.

The clutch operation is to blame partly. The engine being easy to stall, maybe cause it's lacking power is an other.

Slightly better clutch operation on aygoX compared to aygo II but my engine is still easy to stall.

I did a few million km myself too in my life, mainly on manual driven cars...   I strongly doubt I need to learn how to drive again.

Other cars are just better in this way unless when you don't mind being rough on the clutch (Remember aygo's were known for prematurely worn clutches). Which I don't want.

[Cyker]

I find it really weird how the Aygo still has this clutch thing - The Mk1 and Mk2 Yaris at least had some of the easiest clutches to use and always had biting points dead centre; I don't get why they didn't just nick the clutch (and maybe gearbox) out of them!

[haelewyn]

They wanted to punish aygo buyers for not spending enough money.

(Being stingy).

On the new aygoX, the clutch doesn't work on top like on aygo II but also not in center.

Let's say on top minus 1 cm. 

Max 2. 

[Drew Peacock]

i actually love the clutch. bites where a clutch should bite. it's the small motor with little torque is a small problem. having driven 4 million miles i tell you now it's perfect.

are these new aygo's hydraulic or cable?

[Stopeter44]

14 hours ago, Cyker said:

I thought on a mild hybrid it would give some in-fill from the 48v system while the engine got back up to speed, but it's not really very good and I can see why people disable them.

Mild hybrid means everything and nothing. It's like having a hybrid, turbo, GT, 16v, M or whatever stuck on a car.

For instance, the latest iteration of the Fiat 500 has a hybrid Badge on it, it's designated mild hybrid (or maybe not, can't remember really), and the all that happens in that when you slow down and I'm not even sure it has regenerate braking, the Battery gets some extra charge.

[Drew Peacock]

mild hybrid is a scam..does nothing but destroys the way the car drives. mpg is worse than without it. plug in hybrids are a scam aswell unless u only drive 10 miles a day.

even then the extra cost to buy one you will never recoup. our sons kia ceed does 55mpg.the phev version was 10k more. 10k? you'll never ever get your money back on that

[haelewyn]

5 hours ago, Drew Peacock said:

i actually love the clutch. bites where a clutch should bite. it's the small motor with little torque is a small problem. having driven 4 million miles i tell you now it's perfect.

are these new aygo's hydraulic or cable?

We disagree about the clutch.. 

It's hydraulic.  Was a cable in aygo I and II.

[Drew Peacock]

ah ha great, imho hydraulic is better. as the cable ages it gets dry and can cause a stiff clutch. hydraulic always stays the same. ofc the master and slave cylinders will wear out in time. but i've hever had one fail. had a few clutch cables snap in my time. had 3 cambelts snap aswell destroying the cars.

one thing i learnt years ago is to never own a car with a cambelt. to change them here costs 1500 quid.

just been into town in the leaf. not driven it for a week. wow what a car. smooth as silk to drive and takes off like a bullet when not in eco mode.

60% Battery to go 100 kms or 60 miles it's minus 1c just now

[haelewyn]

I don't mind the belt if it can be done for a reasonable price.

Times when I believed chains are always better : I have lost that amount of confidence.

Had a daewoo experience 2.0 with vauxhall / opel engine.. that needed a new belt every 60.000 km. But was still reasonable in hours and cost. I did have all other stuff breaking down on me on the Daewoo. From my beginning years in breakdown service I remember opel had a lot of faulty waterpumps and the Daewoo had that too. On 130.000 km, it had a broken head gasket too and I decided to sell it for parts as I was completely fed up with the car.

The parts must have been sourced out / bought even cheaper than fiat does. A real disaster..

AygoX has a chain which is rather bullet proof... as it is not a small engine with high power I guess. No problems to be expected there normally.

[Drew Peacock]

cambelts were easy back in the day. done many ford cortinas sierras and escorts. hours work. try changing a new diesel passat cambelt? 8 hours work.

never had a camchain fail in my years of driving. keep the oil clean they should last forever. only downside of many cars made nowadays our aygo inculded is bucket valve adjustment.

a loose valve is not a problem but a tight one is. you'll burn the valve out. from what i can gather our cars only need inspection ever 100k kms. i'll be dead bofore our aygo ever gets to that milage

[haelewyn]

I think I can't keep my aygo until 100.000 km.  I usually buy a new car a lot faster.

Or I would need to find some job on the side of which the existence is still unknown to me now.

Chain driven cars : i think the old Mercedes 190 f.e. was bullet proof with this setup. Aygo is too.

However in a renault megane 1.2 tce, some bmw engine and several more, the chain's weak part is often the tensioning...  after which expensive problems can occur too.

If I had a car like that,  I would like to lessen the maintenance interval with 30 percent or have it checked, if possible,  regularly.

[Akuram]

Why would anyone want the stop- start anyway, just drive the car, modern rubbish.

[Cyker]

Agree about mild hybrids; IMHO they shouldn't even be allowed to be advertised as hybrids, since at best it's a very light assist. Cars should only be allowed to be labelled hybrid if either power source can move the car on its own. If just having an electric motor in the car is the bar for entry, well then I'll buy back my old Mk1 D4D and register that as a hybrid vehicle!

re. Chains and belts, both have their pros and cons, but it's specifically *Toyota* chains that are reliable for the life of the car (And even then only if you keep on the oil changes!). German ones are generally not too bad, but it's another thing the french manufacturers apparently didn't get the point of and managed to bugger up. I can't think of another manufacturer who actually specified a change interval for a timing chain   What a joke. But it was real - If you didn't adhere to it, the chain would snap! Why did they even bother putting in a chain if you're going to do that, may as well stick with a belt, then you at least get the advantages of the belt!

Of course now they've invented the wet belt, and somehow combined everything awful about chains with everything awful about belts! "Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, nature makes a better idiot."

Insanity like that is why I stick with Toyota, despite their other idiosyncrasies...!

 

[Drew Peacock]

wet cambelts 🤣

[abaz]

On 12/30/2023 at 3:12 PM, Akuram said:

Why would anyone want the stop- start anyway, just drive the car, modern rubbish.

I have start-stop on my kia. Never used it. When start the car, always disable this option.

- I need to remember to disable it every time I begin my drive

+ the Battery in start-stop cars is more powerful, so it won't dead after 3-5 weeks if I'm not using the car even in the winter time.

[haelewyn]

In the toyota, I have ten years warranty if I keep on going to the dealer for maintenance. 

So, if the starter dies before that time : I don't care too much.

Battery: I don't expect to have to change it more than once so it's not that important.

Every time the system shuts down the engine, I save petrol. I let it do what it's supposed to do. I try to avoid to have it shut the engine off for less than 10 seconds. I fairly succeed in doing that.